I agree with Obama for once....its time to do something

[Gbh]

A misdiagnosed kid can go over the edge. I have seen kids falsely accused that have the attitude " I might as well do that next time since you think I did this time"

 

[JMintzer]

Both of you miss the point entirely

CCW works not because individuals train on a regular basis and are "leo lite" with their precious little certificates from some state bureaucrat....they work because having a significant number of people who CAN respond is a DETERRENT to bad people.

It works because criminals realize that the "juice" stands a good chance of not being worth the "squeeze"

It works because criminals have to worry that the person next to them could stop them from committing the atrocity they have planned.

As it stands our schools and other "Gun Free Easy Victim Zones" are easy targets.....its pretty much 100% guaranteed that if an evil person chooses to target your school that he's going to do VTech/Columbine/CT scale damage before sufficient time elapses for there to be a response.

The old adage "When Seconds Count, the Police are minutes away" is 100% correct.

The question is, do you want the people you love to have a chance or not? Right now they have no chance

ALERT THE MEDIA!!!

I agree, 100%!


Jamie

 

[iobidder]

Both of you miss the point entirely

CCW works not because individuals train on a regular basis and are "leo lite" with their precious little certificates from some state bureaucrat....they work because having a significant number of people who CAN respond is a DETERRENT to bad people.

It works because criminals realize that the "juice" stands a good chance of not being worth the "squeeze"
It works because criminals have to worry that the person next to them could stop them from committing the atrocity they have planned.

As it stands our schools and other "Gun Free Easy Victim Zones" are easy targets.....its pretty much 100% guaranteed that if an evil person chooses to target your school that he's going to do VTech/Columbine/CT scale damage before sufficient time elapses for there to be a response.

The old adage "When Seconds Count, the Police are minutes away" is 100% correct.

The question is, do you want the people you love to have a chance or not? Right now they have no chance

The point of your post I put in bold I will highlight on.

There seems to be a huge majority of you that think because you're carrying a gun on your hip, you are some sort of hero in the making by preventing a crime. Guess what, youre not. no seriously, you're not. You'll either be more of a target when a crime happens or you'll more than likely freeze and have no clue on what to do. Some of you think action flicks on Camp HBO and Fort Cinemax (Call of Duty) is enough to know what to do. Simply taking a class should solve this...again nope. I agree, it is a catch 22 because the Police a 1million miles away, and prefer to carry altogether, and do a tactical stack down a school hallway to somehow catch the bad guy perhaps in a fatal funnel and identify the bad guys you are some sovereign citizens taking the matter into your own hands. Yep that should do it....Nope.

The juice not being worth the squeeze? Guess what, most of these mentally derranged people DO NOT CARE. Why is that you ask, because their crimes are usually premeditated and already know that they are going to die one way or the other. Suicide by cop or just suicide. Not suicide by sovereign citizen with a gun smaller than his.

Is it statistically true that CCW states or areas have less crime, but not in cases of mass murder, schools, theaters...etc Take a step back, think logically, you carrying a pistol doesn't make you the answer in these particular situations.....at all

 

[StanleyG]

The point of your post I put in bold I will highlight on.

There seems to be a huge majority of you that think because you're carrying a gun on your hip, you are some sort of hero in the making by preventing a crime. Guess what, youre not. no seriously, you're not. You'll either be more of a target when a crime happens or you'll more than likely freeze and have no clue on what to do. Some of you think action flicks on Camp HBO and Fort Cinemax (Call of Duty) is enough to know what to do. Simply taking a class should solve this...again nope. I agree, it is a catch 22 because the Police a 1million miles away, and prefer to carry altogether, and do a tactical stack down a school hallway to somehow catch the bad guy perhaps in a fatal funnel and identify the bad guys you are some sovereign citizens taking the matter into your own hands. Yep that should do it....Nope.

The juice not being worth the squeeze? Guess what, most of these mentally derranged people DO NOT CARE. Why is that you ask, because their crimes are usually premeditated and already know that they are going to die one way or the other. Suicide by cop or just suicide. Not suicide by sovereign citizen with a gun smaller than his.

Is it statistically true that CCW states or areas have less crime, but not in cases of mass murder, schools, theaters...etc Take a step back, think logically, you carrying a pistol doesn't make you the answer in these particular situations.....at all

+1

But should a school principle, or a teacher , or even a security guard at some school decide to carry and spend x number of hours practicing. The next shooting attempt may turn out differently.

 

[jpk1md]

Carrying may be a problem in schools. There is a risk around small children if by any chance they get ahold of a weapon. Ther is a risk in high schools where someone carrying could be overpowered by a student or students. That's why I suggest a secure lockbox. The weapon is a non-factor unless needed.

Driving "May" be a threat to children

Playing on the monkey bars "May" be a threat to children

Breathing "May" be a threat to children

Please quit the what if nonsense

 

[jpk1md]

I get the idea behind repealing the school gun free zone, and it's a start. But nuts like this can do damage in many settings (malls, daycare, camps, churches). There is no perfect solution, rather a comprehensive approach. One of the approach, IMHO, is psychological exams after middle and high school. There are some information into the minds of these killers, unfortunately not enough to predict when the next one will emerge. But there is enough correlate some common characteristics. These guys should be "marked". It will be expensive and tough to sell, with liberals and the aclu doing their best to persuade the uneducated.

Yes so that kids can live their entire lives with the stigma and burden of having some flag on their permanent record for the rest of their lives.

Kids are kids.......lots and lots of kids do bad things/are confused while jacked up on testosterone/estrogen but turn out to be normal adults.

 

[jpk1md]

The point of your post I put in bold I will highlight on.

There seems to be a huge majority of you that think because you're carrying a gun on your hip, you are some sort of hero in the making by preventing a crime. Guess what, youre not. no seriously, you're not. You'll either be more of a target when a crime happens or you'll more than likely freeze and have no clue on what to do. Some of you think action flicks on Camp HBO and Fort Cinemax (Call of Duty) is enough to know what to do. Simply taking a class should solve this...again nope. I agree, it is a catch 22 because the Police a 1million miles away, and prefer to carry altogether, and do a tactical stack down a school hallway to somehow catch the bad guy perhaps in a fatal funnel and identify the bad guys you are some sovereign citizens taking the matter into your own hands. Yep that should do it....Nope.

The juice not being worth the squeeze? Guess what, most of these mentally derranged people DO NOT CARE. Why is that you ask, because their crimes are usually premeditated and already know that they are going to die one way or the other. Suicide by cop or just suicide. Not suicide by sovereign citizen with a gun smaller than his.

Is it statistically true that CCW states or areas have less crime, but not in cases of mass murder, schools, theaters...etc Take a step back, think logically, you carrying a pistol doesn't make you the answer in these particular situations.....at all

I'm alive today because I had access to a loaded firearm when I needed it a number of decades ago and thankfully I wasn't forced to use it.

You obviously have no experience with firearms let alone CCW

CCW is about SELF Defense not being a "Hero" as you attempt to paint people.

I like breathing and would like to continue to keep drawing breaths

And I hate to break it to you but the mere threat that a gun in the hands of someone that COULD be in a position to respond is an enourmous deterrent.

The motivation of these kooks is to do as much damage as possible and get as much media attention as possible so your statement claiming that these kooks don't care is ******** at best because a citizen with a gun in a position to limit the damage they can do is the ONLY thing they actually DO care about.....this is why they choose Gun Free Zones

Did you know that the Colorado Theatre shooter had 7+ movie theatres in ~20 mile radius of his home and that the one he chose wasn't even the closest to his home? So why did he choose it? He CHOSE it because it was the only one that had a "No Guns" policy and signs posted on the door.

Did you know that the shooter in the Oregon Mall was in part thwarted by a man with a CCW and the guy didn't even pull the trigger? It put pressure on the shooter who ultimately shot himself before being caught or killing more 2 innocent people with him.

The list of stories and examples of CCW thwarting or minimizing the damage that these kooks do goes on and on and on.

So please do us all a favor and think about what you say before inserting your foot in you mouth next time

 

[crazycarl7]

The point of your post I put in bold I will highlight on.

There seems to be a huge majority of you that think because you're carrying a gun on your hip, you are some sort of hero in the making by preventing a crime. Guess what, youre not. no seriously, you're not. You'll either be more of a target when a crime happens or you'll more than likely freeze and have no clue on what to do. Some of you think action flicks on Camp HBO and Fort Cinemax (Call of Duty) is enough to know what to do. Simply taking a class should solve this...again nope. I agree, it is a catch 22 because the Police a 1million miles away, and prefer to carry altogether, and do a tactical stack down a school hallway to somehow catch the bad guy perhaps in a fatal funnel and identify the bad guys you are some sovereign citizens taking the matter into your own hands. Yep that should do it....Nope.

The juice not being worth the squeeze? Guess what, most of these mentally derranged people DO NOT CARE. Why is that you ask, because their crimes are usually premeditated and already know that they are going to die one way or the other. Suicide by cop or just suicide. Not suicide by sovereign citizen with a gun smaller than his.

Is it statistically true that CCW states or areas have less crime, but not in cases of mass murder, schools, theaters...etc Take a step back, think logically, you carrying a pistol doesn't make you the answer in these particular situations.....at all

These killers are most of the time, not trained LE or military trained. They are wackjob kids or deranged cowerds. If someone would have been there to confront this kid, I'm confident it could have saved lives. It could have pinned him down or kept his attention from killing the kids for enough time that LE would have arrived. Best case scenario, threat is neutralized, or he shot himself. We don't need robo cop. We just need someone at the school that can confront the perp with something other than their hands long enough for the police to arrive. My kids are in kindergarten as well. I would love to see a sign underneath their school sign that said "armed security present". Maybe the killers keeps
driving, maybe he doesn't. However, no protection, no chance!

There was an article about mall shooting in Oregon I read today. Apparently a guy with a CCW pulled his weapon the as the shooters gun jammed. He confronted the killer but was unable to shoot, due to the fact that there were people behind the killer that would have been hit. When the killer cleared his weapon, he immediately shot himself. The killer could have easily killed more people.

 

[iobidder]

I'm alive today because I had access to a loaded firearm when I needed it a number of decades ago and thankfully I wasn't forced to use it.

1)You obviously have no experience with firearms let alone CCW

2)CCW is about SELF Defense not being a "Hero" as you attempt to paint people.

3)I like breathing and would like to continue to keep drawing breaths

And I hate to break it to you but the mere threat that a gun in the hands of someone that COULD be in a position to respond is an enourmous deterrent.

The motivation of these kooks is to do as much damage as possible and get as much media attention as possible so your statement claiming that these kooks don't care is ******** at best because a citizen with a gun in a position to limit the damage they can do is the ONLY thing they actually DO care about.....this is why they choose Gun Free Zones

4)Did you know that the Colorado Theatre shooter had 7+ movie theatres in ~20 mile radius of his home and that the one he chose wasn't even the closest to his home? So why did he choose it? He CHOSE it because it was the only one that had a "No Guns" policy and signs posted on the door.

Did you know that the shooter in the Oregon Mall was in part thwarted by a man with a CCW and the guy didn't even pull the trigger? It put pressure on the shooter who ultimately shot himself before being caught or killing more 2 innocent people with him.

The list of stories and examples of CCW thwarting or minimizing the damage that these kooks do goes on and on and on.

5)So please do us all a favor and think about what you say before inserting your foot in you mouth next time

Oh I am gonna have fun with you.

Please comprehend that I will refer to what is in bold because the rest of your crap is well just crap. Bear with me because this one is a doozy...

1)Hows that foot in your mouth syndrome? Clearly you have a misunderstanding of what I do. No worries, I sure something in your head will eventually click.

2)The picture painted is not by me, it is by you and other comrades on here thinking carrying is simple, and you're automatically able to neutralize any threat possible. I know I know...sounds dumb, that's because it is, actually is is freaking stupid. Moving along now.....

3)Congrats on the breathing thing

4)And? Clearly you're missing the point yet again. When I am speaking about carrying I am speaking in general terms regarding folks who think that simply carrying a weapon makes them a simplistic supplement to the Police automatically. IT DOES NOT. The CCW holder in the mall used common sense or as so it appears he did based on his interview. NO EVERYONE reacts the same. Get it??

5) So I ask again, hows does your foot taste?

 

[Gbh]

Driving "May" be a threat to children

Playing on the monkey bars "May" be a threat to children

Breathing "May" be a threat to children

Please quit the what if nonsense

Wow, you missed my point. Ok, I'll try it in your "what if" format.

Realizing that kids spend about 1/2 of their waking hours in school,

"What if" weapons were available to trained people within the school

And

"What if" the weapons were absolutely not in a place that could be accessed by children or perps? (Which, btw is the same sesponsibility of any gun owner)

Should it be "what if" nonsense to have a home defense weapon because "what if " someone breaks in.

Not nonsense at all........

 

[jpk1md]

Oh I am gonna have fun with you.

Please comprehend that I will refer to what is in bold because the rest of your crap is well just crap. Bear with me because this one is a doozy...

1)Hows that foot in your mouth syndrome? Clearly you have a misunderstanding of what I do. No worries, I sure something in your head will eventually click.

What you DO for a living is irrelevent

What you've said so far in this thread is ignorant at best

2)The picture painted is not by me, it is by you and other comrades on here thinking carrying is simple, and you're automatically able to neutralize any threat possible. I know I know...sounds dumb, that's because it is, actually is is freaking stupid. Moving along now.....

Carrying IS simple

Using is more challenging

Its very easy to carry safely.....many millions of people do it every day

Using is something that everyone I know hopes to never have to do.

What you fail to comprehend is the fact that its the Carrying that is the deterrent.

4)And? Clearly you're missing the point yet again. When I am speaking about carrying I am speaking in general terms regarding folks who think that simply carrying a weapon makes them a simplistic supplement to the Police automatically. IT DOES NOT. The CCW holder in the mall used common sense or as so it appears he did based on his interview. NO EVERYONE reacts the same. Get it??

And what you fail to comprehend is that almost no one wants to be Jr LEO

What you appear to be unable to comprehend is that people carry for one reason and one reason only.... self defense

 

[jpk1md]

Wow, you missed my point. Ok, I'll try it in your "what if" format.

Realizing that kids spend about 1/2 of their waking hours in school,

"What if" weapons were available to trained people within the school

What you're proposing is a centrally managed program.....never going to happen.

There would have to mandatory training for the staff, common training on a common platform, lockers that would have to have combinations changed on a regular basis and quite literally a raft of bureaucracy to support it.

and even then the tool isn't avail when you need it and said lockers would be the first target for a shooter

Never gonna happen.

Allowing citizens who also happen to be Teachers, Janitors etc to go about their lives carrying same as they would OFF campus is a simple realistic possibility in most states other than Md, NJ, Ill, etc

and

"What if" the weapons were absolutely not in a place that could be accessed by children or perps? (Which, btw is the same sesponsibility of any gun owner)

Should it be "what if" nonsense to have a home defense weapon because "what if " someone breaks in.

Not nonsense at all........

If weapons are still making it onto commercial airlines despite the trillions we've spent on security theatre how would you propose ensuring that kids/adults are never able to access <insert inanimate object> and prevent them or adults from bringing them into said Gun Free Zone

 

[Redneck]

Wow this is making us as gun owners look really good. We bitch among ourselves and the antis sit back and smile

Let me say this though. jpk1md, you have been here as long as I have. I have read most of your posts. When you speak we listen. I agree 100% with what your are saying. Common sense should agree, but people here would rather fight amongst themselves as opposed to fighting together.

 

[jpk1md]

Wow this is making us as gun owners look really good. We bitch among ourselves and the antis sit back and smile

Tx Redneck.

Clearly this is a retorical question

Did you think that all gun owners think alike?

Do all chainsaw owners think alike?

How about all Corvette owners?

Honestly I wish folks would put 1/10th of the time they spend on this forum into writing letters and showing up to hearing......if we could get 2A folks to do that our politicians wouldn't dare touch the issue

 

[Redneck]

Tx Redneck.

Clearly this is a retorical question

Did you think that all gun owners think alike?

Do all chainsaw owners think alike?

How about all Corvette owners?

Honestly I wish folks would put 1/10th of the time they spend on this forum into writing letters and showing up to hearing......if we could get 2A folks to do that our politicians wouldn't dare touch the issue

I guess I'm naive and hope they do..

 

[Gbh]

[QUOTE=jpk1md;1987247 If weapons are still making it onto commercial airlines despite the trillions we've spent on security theatre how would you propose ensuring that kids/adults are never able to access <insert inanimate object> and prevent them or adults from bringing them into said Gun Free Zone[/

Only as it relates to school owned weapons stored in a secure lockbox.

There is no way to ensure kids or adults couldn't bring in weapons from the outside which is the point of the conversation about having some sort of defense within the schools.

 

[jpk1md]

Only as it relates to school owned weapons stored in a secure lockbox.

There is no way to ensure kids or adults couldn't bring in weapons from the outside which is the point of the conversation about having some sort of defense within the schools.

But thats the point

That theoretical locker would:
1. be inaccessible when needed
2. necessarily require an entire bureaucracy to ensure that it remains locked, the combo is changed on a weekly/monthly basis.
3. would be the FIRST target a bad person would go for.

It would be the equivalent of locking your CCW in your car and going into the mall and expecting that it would do you any good.....not gonna happen.

 

[iobidder]

What you DO for a living is irrelevent

What you've said so far in this thread is ignorant at best



Carrying IS simple

Using is more challenging

Its very easy to carry safely.....many millions of people do it every day

Using is something that everyone I know hopes to never have to do.

What you fail to comprehend is the fact that its the Carrying that is the deterrent.





And what you fail to comprehend is that almost no one wants to be Jr LEO

What you appear to be unable to comprehend is that people carry for one reason and one reason only.... self defense

Congrats...you've just repeated yourself yet again. Hows that for comprehension? I choose not to tippytoe around ideology anymore. Sure carrying is a deterent but what about when it isnt enough? Thats my point. Marinate on that thought mr non jr leo sovereign citizen. Ill continue reading your nonsense over a long hard crap.

Sent via Samsung Galaxy 3 or iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

[jpk1md]

I guess I'm naive and hope they do..

Do you remember Jim Zumbo and his AR15 comments?

 

[jpk1md]

Congrats...you've just repeated yourself yet again. Hows that for comprehension? I choose not to tippytoe around ideology anymore. Sure carrying is a deterent but what about when it isnt enough? Thats my point. Marinate on that thought mr non jr leo sovereign citizen. Ill continue reading your nonsense over a long hard crap.

Sent via Samsung Galaxy 3 or iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

The sad part is that I HAD to repeat myself because you didn;t and apparently continue to fail to read/comprehend the point.

This isn't about "Ideology" its about Reality and human nature.

The simple fact of the matter is that most people just want to be left alone

Self Defense = Not looking for trouble

It means that unless you're forced to defend yourself you don't go looking for trouble.

The simple fact that we have millions and millions of people who carry and statistically none of your fictional incidences points to the fact that your entire premise/train of thought is just wrong.

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't have CCW's running around accidentally shooting people because people don't carry in order to be jr wanna be leo's

The fact of the matter remains that the statistics on what has happened when individuals are forced to defend themselves demonstrates that people can and do exercise good judgement....will they always? Probably not....there will inevitably be exceptions to the rule.....the worlds not a safe place.

Preventing people from defending themselves doesn't make it any safer....it makes it worse

The point of this entire discussion is that CCW is a DETERRENT to evil people bent on doing bad things