HPRB September 15, 2015 Meeting Thread

[LoneRanger]

Probably commuting home, or preparing dinner for the family. Going for pure fascination or interest is fine. Some people seem to think going helps something? If you believe by going there is influence, why do you presume it will be positive ?

They are convinced they are onto something that no one has thought of in the last 40+ years.....most are probably are not native Marylander's nor can remember what it was like to just mosey on down to the local Montgomery Ward store, buy a pair of socks, a gallon of paint and a new handgun, while having new tires put on your car............and walk out the door with all of them.

And I can't believe any reasonably, intelligent person could possibly believe that members of the MDS are the only ones paying attention to the HPRB and it's decisions.

 

[Schipperke]

They are convinced they are onto something that no one has thought of in the last 40+ years.....most are probably are not native Marylander's nor can remember what it was like to just mosey on down to the local Montgomery Ward store, buy a pair of socks, a gallon of paint and a new handgun, while having new tires put on your car............and walk out the door with all of them.

And I can't believe any reasonably, intelligent person could possibly believe that members of the MDS are the only ones paying attention to the HPRB and it's decisions.

I can remember when I was a boy, Aspen Hill Hardware had a showcase of revolvers. In year 1978, bought my M1 Carbine at Sears in Montgomery Mall.
Have the Maryland gun laws gotten better or worse since MSI's debut? Seems I didn't need a HQL and could buy an AR-15 during there existence.

 

[montoya32]

Probably commuting home, or preparing dinner for the family. Going for pure fascination or interest is fine. Some people seem to think going helps something? If you believe by going there is influence, why do you presume it will be positive ?

Why do you or anyone else presume there is no influence and that it is negative. I ,without a doubt, believe we have had a positive impact. When have you heard of the board or any individual member ask the spectators for their input? The current members know we are watching and we are offering our advice/observations whether at ht meetings or post meeting based on the info we observe and hear.

The board members are questioning the MSP's stance that the applicant must prove a need instead of the MSP proving the lack of a need. Think that just spontaneously happened? The board is pushing back on the MSP that they need to prove the applicant is unworthy of a permit instead of the applicant proving they are qualified. That is not just a coincidence. Info is being sent to board members, members of our community are working with the DPSCS and refining the process and the way the meetings are being conducted.

These are facts. Those who have not attended the meetings wouldn't know and should just leave it those putting in the time and effort to relay the facts.

 

[montoya32]

I can remember when I was a boy, Aspen Hill Hardware had a showcase of revolvers. In year 1978, bought my M1 Carbine at Sears in Montgomery Mall.
Have the Maryland gun laws gotten better or worse since MSI's debut? Seems I didn't need a HQL and could buy an AR-15 during there existence.

Surely you jest. Why isolate MSI? Where is AGC, another state based organization, in this equation? I am not blaming either, but the existence and efforts of MSI is an asset to us, not a detriment. Where would the laws be without the efforts of any of these organizations? That is the question you need to ask.

 

[Schipperke]

All kinds of stories from attendees at HPRB. I've been told by one absolutely no influence is attempted, just cordial banter. If the board is asking members of the gallery for input, holy sh1t, it is a F'n mess for real. The tweaking of running meetings by the numbers is certainly an outcome of disgruntled folks. Stated before, go ahead and push that, but what does that do for you? Now the other story is Hogan packed the board with pro gun type people. Doesn't seem they'd need influence. It's OK I guess that a bunch of people want to try subliminal intimidation, and force meetings run to the letter. Imagine if the meetings were filled with Mom's against guns, you want to believe they'd have influence too? There is a certain point where pushing starts getting push back. Maybe not there yet, but seriously consider it. I think that is one of LR's points really worth listening to.

 

[montoya32]

All kinds of stories from attendees at HPRB. I've been told by one absolutely no influence is attempted, just cordial banter. If the board is asking members of the gallery for input, holy sh1t, it is a F'n mess for real. The tweaking of running meetings by the numbers is certainly an outcome of disgruntled folks. Stated before, go ahead and push that, but what does that do for you? Now the other story is Hogan packed the board with pro gun type people. Doesn't seem they'd need influence. It's OK I guess that a bunch of people want to try subliminal intimidation, and force meetings run to the letter. Imagine if the meetings were filled with Mom's against guns, you want to believe they'd have influence too? There is a certain point where pushing starts getting push back. Maybe not there yet, but seriously consider it. I think that is one of LR's points really worth listening to.

As was seen by the attendees a few meetings ago, the members will take advice from whom they choose. Those who are supportive of our community will listen to us. Those opposed will shrug off any input. I am not saying all advice, input or info is given during the meetings, but there is limited access to the members and staff before and after the meetings.

Anyone can conjure up "what if" scenarios all they want. I state what has happened and what I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Stating "what you're doing won't work" without a productive and constructive alternative is weak at best.

 

[Schipperke]

As was seen by the attendees a few meetings ago, the members will take advice from whom they choose. Those who are supportive of our community will listen to us. Those opposed will shrug off any input. I am not saying all advice, input or info is given during the meetings, but there is limited access to the members and staff before and after the meetings.

Anyone can conjure up "what if" scenarios all they want. I state what has happened and what I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Stating "what you're doing won't work" without a productive and constructive alternative is weak at best.

Whatever anyone is doing being material to change is speculation at best. The idea that some people comment it wont work, then requires an alternative is just a logical fallacy. When you are giving CPR to a dead man and someone tells you , "it's not going to work", what alternative would you expect?

 

[montoya32]

Whatever anyone is doing being material to change is speculation at best. The idea that some people comment it wont work, then requires an alternative is just a logical fallacy. When you are giving CPR to a dead man and someone tells you , "it's not going to work", what alternative would you expect?

It's not speculation when you see the cause and effect of the efforts.

I would expect someone observing something they see as ineffective and a waste of time to offer advice or input as to how to improve said effort. If they have no differing opinion and solution, then keep it to themselves.

 

[Schipperke]

As ̶G̶e̶o̶r̶g̶e̶ ̶C̶a̶r̶l̶i̶n̶ Sam Kinison said, "Move to where the food is." If gun rights occupy the majority of your life. That is my advice.

 

[swinokur]

I think it was the late Sam Kinison

 

[Stoveman]

Whatever anyone is doing being material to change is speculation at best. The idea that some people comment it wont work, then requires an alternative is just a logical fallacy. When you are giving CPR to a dead man and someone tells you , "it's not going to work", what alternative would you expect?

Why don't you and the Lone Nabob come on out to the next meeting? At least then you'd have some skin in the game for your sideline doom and gloom.

 

[Schipperke]

I think it was the late Sam Kinison

TY..

Damned, dementia.. I liked them both well!

 

[Schipperke]

Why don't you and the Lone Nabob come on out to the next meeting? At least then you'd have some skin in the game for your sideline doom and gloom.

I would definitely like to see a meeting when the Montoya challenges restrictions. Going there every week inserts skin in the game how? I take it the notes that people publish on outcomes and observations legitimate. That is observing, not changing anything. I agree from reading observations there may be some activist panel members now, where as before not so.

 

[LoneRanger]

I would definitely like to see a meeting when the Montoya challenges restrictions. Going there every week inserts skin in the game how? I take it the notes that people publish on outcomes and observations legitimate. That is observing, not changing anything. I agree from reading observations there may be some activist panel members now, where as before not so.

I'm pretty sure if my appeal were denied after the panel used the advice of the peanut gallery, I would be calling Billy Murphy's law firm, that has to be worth more than six million dollars.........

 

[PJDiesel]

I'm pretty sure if my appeal were denied after the panel used the advice of the peanut gallery,......

No shit, right?

It's bad enough they are interpreting law and sounding clueless the whole while as is......


I'm interested in the board, have yet to make it and am reluctant to break the balls of the guys on the ground there. But, my concerns are growing about where this is all really heading. I surely hope I'm wrong, but......

 

[DC-W]

Just thought I'd point out that the board still hasn't heard anything from after the spring this year...

Things are bound to get very interesting once that starts happening.

 

[Blacksmith101]

It is very interesting to watch the liberal trolls/plants on the forum grow increasingly desperate in their attempts to slow the progress that Maryland gun owners are making in reversing the decades of liberal anti gun abuse that have occurred in the state because either no one was watching or people were being Fudds because it didn't effect their guns or sport.

The tide is changing in Maryland and the Nation and will gain momentum as time goes on.




Anyone see what I did here?

 

[PJDiesel]

I dont.

Please specify which members you are calling "Trolls" and "Plants"?

There's no interest on my end in slowing any progress. I could have an all but rubber stamped permit (renewal) in my hands in 30 days flat if I wanted. I don't think LR or Schipperke are trolling.

Eloborate please.

 

[LoneRanger]

I dont.

Please specify which members you are calling "Trolls" and "Plants"?

There's no interest on my end in slowing any progress. I could have an all but rubber stamped permit (renewal) in my hands in 30 days flat if I wanted. I don't think LR or Schipperke are trolling.

Eloborate please.

Progress is in the eye of the beholder......the only progress I'm seeing is progress towards more gun restrictions.

I'm sure some of the apply/deny/appeal group have good intentions....but as Edison said.....“A good intention, with a bad approach, often leads to a poor result"

 

[DC-W]

Antagonists? Members who disagree? Devils advocates? Yes.

Plants? No. I know two of the constant bear-pokers personally and they are not plants, nor liberals.