HPRB September 1, 2015 Meeting Thread

[montoya32]

with a 121 year older precedent and definition. thisnis something the members of the hprb could run with, and something the secretary of state police could cite. and they would be withing their authority, and actually following the law for once.

So someone needs to make the secretary and board aware of this. I think we need a resident attorney to simplify and condense this info into an easy to read/understand format to be able to hand it out or email it.

 

[Jaybeez]

So someone needs to make the secretary and board aware of this. I think we need a resident attorney to simplify and condense this info into an easy to read/understand format to be able to hand it out or email it.

im still trying to refine it myself, and get feedback and criticism.

 

[CypherPunk]

So basically the MSP has been pulling their process and application of the law out of their asses. How do we combat 40+ years of "precedence"?

IF TRUE, Would the police just make up a law like this, out of thin air?

 

[Jaybeez]

IF TRUE, Would the police just make up a law like this, out of thin air?

i dont know if they made it up out of thin air. im sure it was a gradual forgetting of the original intent, as troopers were promoted and replacements trained.

like a 40 year long game of telephone, with a healthy heaping of bias thrown in by anti 2A governors.

remember mr mccauley's senate testimony of being thrust into licensing division with no experience in that duty, and his research and discussion over what the law meant, and how things were done the way they were done because thats how they were done.

rereading snowden, scherr, and woollard today, nobody really touches "reasonable precaution of apprehended danger" except in snowden where its not "from the applicant's point of view" (fine in my theory) and the board (wrongly) thinks it is more than personal anxiety. but reasonable precaution wasnt the question in snowden.

it even jives with the fisher letter's legislative history of the 72 law and its rewording through its passage. the rewording making it closer to my theory than not. the conclusion in the letter is off, but because they never went back further than 1972.

if reasonable precauation was a defined part of md law for 78 years, there is a reason why legislators went back in time to resurrect that phrase, because it had a commonly understood definition that they were familiar with and had worked with in the legal system.

 

[Jaybeez]

you have to think like a lawyer in 1971. the gca of 68 had just passed, and md weapons carry needed to comply, with prohibitions on felons and drug addicts. a cop on the street couldnt call in a background check on someone open carrying in 71, so permits needed to be developed in order to eliminate bad guys from the pool.

and speaking of which, open carry is another holdover of the 1894 law allowed under the 72 permit scheme.

 

[Schipperke]

I wouldn't fathom Knaub or the HGRB as pedantic as some MDS members.

 

[swinokur]

Maybe they should be.

 

[Jaybeez]

legislative finding (intent)
md law criminal 4-202
adopted 2002

The General Assembly finds that:
(1) the number of violent crimes committed in the State has increased alarmingly in recent years;
(2) a high percentage of violent crimes committed in the State involves the use of handguns;
(3) the result is a substantial increase in the number of deaths and injuries largely traceable to the carrying of handguns in public places by criminals;
(4) current law has not been effective in curbing the more frequent use of handguns in committing crime; and
(5) additional regulations on the wearing, carrying, and transporting of handguns are necessary to preserve the peace and tranquility of the State and to protect the rights and liberties of the public.



im having difficulty finding the 1972 equivalent of this language.

 

[mxrider]

legislative finding (intent)
md law criminal 4-202
adopted 2002

The General Assembly finds that:
(3) the result is a substantial increase in the number of deaths and injuries largely traceable to the carrying of handguns in public places by criminals;
.

Highlighted something important in this........

 

[ironpony]

I planned on finally coming out to this meeting but due to the negative comments on my actual research findings (I however did get some positive feedback in PM's) I have lost interest so Thanks to all involved and keep up the good fight ...

 

[DC-W]

I should be there.

 

[Jaybeez]

Highlighted something important in this........

exactly!

prior to 72 there was no way to tell if someone carrying was a criminal.

the statement of intent is all about removing criminals from the pool.

when we read it today, its with the cynical eyes of gun owners that see infringements every year. but this is from another era, should we read it that way or take it at face value? there is nothing about limiting lawful carry or defining what reasonable precaution in the intent.

 

[LoneRanger]

Were any of you actually alive in 1972 and remember the political climate at the time?

The law is working pretty much as Governor Mandel intended....and now it looks like you all went and killed him...

 

[Biggfoot44]

Ah , yeah .

 

[mxrider]

Were any of you actually alive in 1972 and remember the political climate at the time?

The law is working pretty much as Governor Mandel intended....and now it looks like you all went and killed him...

Well, I was alive but that's about all I can say

 

[mxrider]

I planned on finally coming out to this meeting but due to the negative comments on my actual research findings (I however did get some positive feedback in PM's) I have lost interest so Thanks to all involved and keep up the good fight ...

You should still come out!

 

[Schipperke]

Were any of you actually alive in 1972 and remember the political climate at the time?

The law is working pretty much as Governor Mandel intended....and now it looks like you all went and killed him...

 

[Jaybeez]

political climate is one thing, but we have their words and statement, and the definition of reasonable precaution of apprehended danger that was alive in 1972.

 

[LCPIWB]

I planned on finally coming out to this meeting but due to the negative comments on my actual research findings (I however did get some positive feedback in PM's) I have lost interest so Thanks to all involved and keep up the good fight ...

???? This is your first post on this thread, so have no idea about what negative comments you are talking about.

But it is appreciated if you come out. The meetings will be one observer short for the next two months as I will be in Japan. Observing from afar 13hrs into the future.

 

[montoya32]

Political climate means squat. Left, right, liberal, conservative, black, white, doesn't matter. Written decisions trump all and the MSP has been manipulating them for decades. Time to pay the piper.