How to transport a pistol to the range on motorcycle?

[NateIU10]

You are correct but that section does not allow you to carry concealed without a permit.

That is exactly what it is doing, actually. You are allowed to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, concealed, if you are going to or coming from target practice and the handgun is unloaded and in an enclosed case or enclosed holster.

 

[Straightshooter]

That is exactly what it is doing, actually. You are allowed to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, concealed, if you are going to or coming from target practice and the handgun is unloaded and in an enclosed case or enclosed holster.

Show me where it says "concealed".

 

[NateIU10]

Show me where it says "concealed".

Ok.

(a)(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may noti) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

Md. Crim. Law Code Ann. § 4-203

(b) This section does not prohibit:
...
(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

Md. Crim. Law Code Ann. § 4-203

The exception is one to the general prohibition against the, "wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person." Also, the carrying of a handgun in an enclosed case on your person is inherently concealed.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

This thread got real boring real fast.

Maybe it can morph into a "watcha rid'in" motorsickle thread.

Better than: yes you can---no you can't---yes you can---no you can't.....

 

[Traveler]

Cris cross double barrels on my back, rockin my Suzuki Intruder !!

 

[TxAggie]

There you go trying to make things simple. That type of meddling will never work on MDS. Keep in mind, there's still no need to keep the ammo separate.

Lol, I'm an Aggie, we like things simple!

I realize you don't "need" to keep it separate, but since most backpacks at least have a zipper compartment that will fit a pistol, might as well take advantage of it. Might be overkill.

 

[Name Taken]

This isn't even that complex...read the law it's fairly simple.

Gun shops, ranges, and people who have no understanding of the law is what causes headaches like this. Forget whatever you might have been told and just read the letter of the law.

 

[fred333]

Hopefully, the cop that might stop a motorcyclist en route to a range with an unloaded pistol packed in a pistol container located in his backpack (on his back and without ammo) will have likewise read/understood the law....

 

[TTMD]

Along a related line, and carrying a few of the thread comments to the next step...

If you have a MD Handgun Permit, (MD version of a CCW) I believe I've heard that it's generally good form, if stopped by a police officer, to show the permit as well as your DL when/if asked for ID. But if you DON'T have a permit, and you're on your way to or from the range, or other allowable place, is there a statutory or regulatory obligation (as a fine, upstanding, law-abiding citizen) to reveal that you have a firearm in your vehicle if not specifically asked? And if so, can someone provide that MD law article &/or COMAR cite?

Even if asked, I'm not sure about the response, as an affirmative response may invite a search, as such an answer may be considerable "probable cause." Thoughts?

 

[fred333]

If asked, I think it'd be a serious mistake to lie. That said, if not asked, don't volunteer information, as it can/will be used against you.

 

[TTMD]

If asked, I think it'd be a serious mistake to lie. That said, if not asked, don't volunteer information, as it can/will be used against you.

I'm not suggesting a lie, but there are more ways to respond than a simple yes or no. For example, "I have nothing illegal inside my vehicle." And I've generally heard that if asked if the officer can look through your vehicle, no matter what, the response should be along the lines of "respectfully, I cannot allow you to search my vehicle without a warrant." So a "nothing illegal" sort of response would seem to not provide any cause, but would not also be a lie.

Just thinking out loud here...

 

[Straightshooter]

Ok.





The exception is one to the general prohibition against the, "wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person." Also, the carrying of a handgun in an enclosed case on your person is inherently concealed.

Try Sb281 Page 7 for the exemptions. (notice the absence of the word "Concealed"?

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun
28 used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or
29 informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural
30 Resources–sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience
31 training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from
32 that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an
33 enclosed holster;

 

[NateIU10]

Try Sb281 Page 7 for the exemptions. (notice the absence of the word "Concealed"?

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun
28 used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or
29 informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural
30 Resources–sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience
31 training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from
32 that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an
33 enclosed holster;

Why use the bill when my firm pays for Westlaw? You quoted exactly what I stated. The statute is read as a whole, not in isolation. The statute bars the open or concealed carry of a handgun. This is an exception to the carrying of a handgun, provided certain factors are met. Again, how is a handgun in an enclosed case (legal to carry on your person per this exception) not concealed?

I'm going to leave it at this, I am not sure how else to explain the law. Do as you wish.

 

[jonnyl]

Along a related line, and carrying a few of the thread comments to the next step...

If you have a MD Handgun Permit, (MD version of a CCW) I believe I've heard that it's generally good form, if stopped by a police officer, to show the permit as well as your DL when/if asked for ID. But if you DON'T have a permit, and you're on your way to or from the range, or other allowable place, is there a statutory or regulatory obligation (as a fine, upstanding, law-abiding citizen) to reveal that you have a firearm in your vehicle if not specifically asked? And if so, can someone provide that MD law article &/or COMAR cite?

Even if asked, I'm not sure about the response, as an affirmative response may invite a search, as such an answer may be considerable "probable cause." Thoughts?

I've often wondered about this. It would seem to me (forgetting that we're in Maryland for a moment) that answering "yes, I'm returning from the range and have several unloaded firearms" would not give probable cause that a crime is being committed.

I'm wondering as a matter of discussion/curiosity not because I think it's a good idea to broadcast guns in the car. Just curious from the legal point of view how "yes I have legally transported firearms, and no you may not search" would end up.

 

[Straightshooter]

Why use the bill when my firm pays for Westlaw? You quoted exactly what I stated. The statute is read as a whole, not in isolation. The statute bars the open or concealed carry of a handgun. This is an exception to the carrying of a handgun, provided certain factors are met. Again, how is a handgun in an enclosed case (legal to carry on your person per this exception) not concealed?

I'm going to leave it at this, I am not sure how else to explain the law. Do as you wish.

Take note that the section you quoted from Westlaw (4-203, a,1) is missing from SB 281. That's not a mix up on my part, it has been that way since the bill was introduced. That contained the "concealed" wording.

 

[NateIU10]

Take note that the section you quoted from Westlaw (4-203, a,1) is missing from SB 281. That's not a mix up on my part, it has been that way since the bill was introduced. That contained the "concealed" wording.

Are you saying that 4-203(a) is not MD law anymore because it is not in SB281? Md. Crim. Law 4-203(a) was not altered by SB281, that is why it is not in the bill. (b) was altered, and is included in SB281. MD Code still contains Crim Law Article 4-203(a).

If you use https://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/mdcode/ you can find the entire Criminal Law Article.

 

[TTMD]

I've often wondered about this. It would seem to me (forgetting that we're in Maryland for a moment) that answering "yes, I'm returning from the range and have several unloaded firearms" would not give probable cause that a crime is being committed.

I'm wondering as a matter of discussion/curiosity not because I think it's a good idea to broadcast guns in the car. Just curious from the legal point of view how "yes I have legally transported firearms, and no you may not search" would end up.

I don't mean to imply probable cause that a crime has been committed, but rather that something just needs to be checked out further, w/ things possibly going in several directions from there, including possibly no where than happily on your way. Anyway, yeah, we're on the same page.

 

[Straightshooter]

Are you saying that 4-201(a) is not MD law anymore because it is not in SB281? Md. Crim. Law 4-203(a) was not altered by SB281, that is why it is not in the bill. (b) was altered, and is included in SB281. MD Code still contains Crim Law Article 4-203(a).

If you use https://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/mdcode/ you can find the entire Criminal Law Article.

As you have said, take the section as a whole rather than pieces.
Section a(1) even though missing in SB 281,mentions both open and concealed because it is pointing to references for exceptions that both contain instances where concealed carry is allowed and instances where it is not granted in other sections of the law. Example would be 4-203 (b) (2) which is an exception for people with a permit, who of course can carry concealed. The other exception you are looking at is 4-203 (4) which allows you to carry and transport to the range in a case or enclosed holster, but nowhere within the code does the authority to conceal under this circumstance exist.

 

[NateIU10]

As you have said, take the section as a whole rather than pieces.
Section a(1) even though missing in SB 281,mentions both open and concealed because it is pointing to references for exceptions that both contain instances where concealed carry is allowed and instances where it is not granted in other sections of the law. Example would be 4-203 (b) (2) which is an exception for people with a permit, who of course can carry concealed. The other exception you are looking at is 4-203 (4) which allows you to carry and transport to the range in a case or enclosed holster, but nowhere within the code does the authority to conceal under this circumstance exist.

Nowhere in any of the exceptions does it differentiate between open and concealed carry. A Maryland permit allows for both the open and concealed carry of a handgun in MD (though open carry is likely to get your permit revoked.) I have expressed to you my interpretation of the statute. I will reiterate my question: how is a handgun carried on your person in an enclosed case not concealed? I am done trying to get you to understand my point and explain statutory construction.

 

[Straightshooter]

You are saying the exact same thing I said. With a permit, you can carry concealed. An LEO can carry concealed. Military can carry concealed. John Doe going to the range has no authority to carry concealed. Keep in mind, this code is not about method of carry but is about who is allowed to remove their handgun from their property, for what reason and how it is to be secured.