How to safeguard firearms from a divorce in MD?

[fabsroman]

The guns were NOT bought with money from our joint accounts. Mainly from saving of birthday gifts, selling off car parts, selling other stuff and odd jobs. Never did money that would go toward the family go toward the guns. 1 gun is sold, being picked up Saturday. One on GB right now (not legal for sale in MD), and I am giving one to my old man. My brother just bought a place so I am probably going to leave them with him for now. We had a family vacation pre-planned for next week, so for the kids sake we are going. The living situation will be sorted when we get back. FWIW, I am NOT the one who wanted this, nor had serious issues with the marriage. I tried like crazy to avoid it by suggesting counseling, a cool off period, etc. I think it's done. I can't force her to love me. But, she has a real resentment towards my guns I wasn't really aware of. She said she kept quiet and let me do my thing. It just simmered in her even though I tried to include her. I still don't want this, but one man with a bucket couldn't save the titanic. Thanks for the suggestions.

Well then, that really sucks if the marriage is only bad for her and not you. It really sucks when it isn't a mutual divorce. Going on vacation for the "kids" is a decent move, but making the marriage work for the kids would be even better. Is it just the guns, or is there more to it than merely the guns.

FYI - since I met my wife I have told her that whenever she or I have an issue with the other, we need to address it immediately instead of keeping a laundry list to pull out in some huge blow out. No simmering of anything. Before I met my wife, I was engaged to a woman that kept a laundry list, and when we had a disagreement on one thing then she brought out the laundry list to really make me feel like crap. Nothing quite like piling 10 different topics onto one. With my wife and I, we address whatever the issue is until it is resolved. I LOVE my wife.

I really do hope that the two of you work this out. Kind of amazing how few people actually attend marriage counseling and go straight to divorce instead.

 

[MikeTF]

The guns were NOT bought with money from our joint accounts. Mainly from saving of birthday gifts, selling off car parts, selling other stuff and odd jobs. Never did money that would go toward the family go toward the guns. 1 gun is sold, being picked up Saturday. One on GB right now (not legal for sale in MD), and I am giving one to my old man. My brother just bought a place so I am probably going to leave them with him for now. We had a family vacation pre-planned for next week, so for the kids sake we are going. The living situation will be sorted when we get back. FWIW, I am NOT the one who wanted this, nor had serious issues with the marriage. I tried like crazy to avoid it by suggesting counseling, a cool off period, etc. I think it's done. I can't force her to love me. But, she has a real resentment towards my guns I wasn't really aware of. She said she kept quiet and let me do my thing. It just simmered in her even though I tried to include her. I still don't want this, but one man with a bucket couldn't save the titanic. Thanks for the suggestions.

'You're right, I'm wrong, I'm getting rid of the guns. I love you that much.' -- try this tactic. If she still says, 'It's over', it was never about the guns. That's how hard I'd fight for my marriage. The guns, money, the house ... anything material ... isn't worth breaking up a marriage.

 

[fabsroman]

'You're right, I'm wrong, I'm getting rid of the guns. I love you that much.' -- try this tactic. If she still says, 'It's over', it was never about the guns. That's how hard I'd fight for my marriage. The guns, money, the house ... anything material ... isn't worth breaking up a marriage.

Exactly, and it surely is not worth not seeing my kids every day of the week, even though they have driven me nuts today and yesterday. I would fight like hell to save my marriage and if that failed I would fight like hell for custody of my kids.

 

[MikeTF]

Exactly, and it surely is not worth not seeing my kids every day of the week, even though they have driven me nuts today and yesterday. I would fight like hell to save my marriage and if that failed I would fight like hell for custody of my kids.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[tourrider]

If you must go down the separation road, seek legal counsel. If you own your home, do not leave it. Do not sleep in a motel, at your old mans, or stay with your brother. Sleep in your house only until your lawyer tells you otherwise.




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[traveller]

If you must go down the separation road, seek legal counsel. If you own your home, do not leave it. Do not sleep in a motel, at your old mans, or stay with your brother. Sleep in your house only until your lawyer tells you otherwise.

That only matters if you have an interest in keeping the house. For most younger folks, the house is owned by the bank anyway, you dont lose much by giving it up. Once you know its over, you want to be as far away from the soon to be ex as possible to make sure you dont give her opportunity to play the restraining order game. Find an apartment in the area so you can be around for the kids, but if she wants to get rid of you (which seems to be the case here) sticking around in a common domicile just exposes you to the risk of things going really really bad.

 

[tourrider]

That only matters if you have an interest in keeping the house. For most younger folks, the house is owned by the bank anyway, you dont lose much by giving it up. Once you know its over, you want to be as far away from the soon to be ex as possible to make sure you dont give her opportunity to play the restraining order game. Find an apartment in the area so you can be around for the kids, but if she wants to get rid of you (which seems to be the case here) sticking around in a common domicile just exposes you to the risk of things going really really bad.

Unless there is abuse, Moving out of the marital home can have a negative impact on your case. Do not do it without first discussing the issue with your attorney.


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[DCSCO]

Protect some of them by keeping out of state. Potential loss from domestic charges, real or imagined


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[MikeTF]

Well, I still have the mindset of a young adult, wanting my toys and such. My body is the only thing getting older. I am not selling all my guns. Just a few to free up some cash and show I am making an effort. Also my car. She's had a number of stressful events not from me the last couple months, and I think that has led her to have doubts about her life. I have been trying to get her to seek help, but no success. Her head just isn't in the marriage anymore. The stress of 2 young high maintenance kids does not help. My job is changing, my parents will be separating soon, and the kids are a pain (but I love them), and my feelings for her have not changed. She has been a great mom and wife, and this has happened so fast my head is spinning. I honestly think she's having a nervous breakdown and will regret the decision she is making.

Sorry for the rant. I "think" the gun storage situation has been solved. I think with selling a few off, it has temporarily calmed her a bit until everything is out of the house except maybe a shotgun, pistol and Mosin for emergencies. Again, thanks for all the suggestions.

Hang in there! Sometimes the kids can keep you so busy that you forget to actually spend time with the wife. I took a weekend cruise with my wife several years ago when we had 3 kids in the house. It was cheaper and better than marriage counseling, let alone divorce.

 

[Petar]

Hang in there! Sometimes the kids can keep you so busy that you forget to actually spend time with the wife. I took a weekend cruise with my wife several years ago when we had 3 kids in the house. It was cheaper and better than marriage counseling, let alone divorce.

...and yet it's not always "cheaper to keep her" been there, done that last December... my life could not be better now that she's gone!

 

[traveller]

Unless there is abuse, Moving out of the marital home can have a negative impact on your case. Do not do it without first discussing the issue with your attorney.

What case ? There is no assessment of blame in the divorce. You have irreconcilable differences and that's it. You want to be divorced as fast as possible with the least damage to your future ability to hold a job and ability to see your kids. You want to see your soon to be ex spouse when you pick up the kids, and maybe at the PTA meeting, not argue about the electrical bill with her. Domestic violence accusations are a weapon in divorce proceedings, why give her ammunition by sticking around ? You are financially ruined with the divorce anyway, why compound it by adding jailtime, arrest records and loss of your 2A rights ?
Move out, stick around with an apartment 2 towns over, be a great dad to your kids. If she gets whatever is bugging her out of her system, she'll come back before the divorce is final, or maybe after (one of my business partners re-married his wife after about 5 years apart, his comment was that he really likes the house he bought her in the divorce ).

 

[jcbvh]

Get out if you can. The guns are only the beginning...

 

[traveller]

There is an assessment of blame. She is to blame.

In the old days, I believe up to the 1970s, at the end of the divorce trial one party was found 'at fault' for causing the divorce (either the party who cheated first, or the one with the worse lawyer). This had consequences for things like alimony claims. Since the 70s, we have what is called 'no fault' divorce. No such judgement is rendered, even if it was clearly one spouse who caused it.

We are currently living in the same house, different rooms for the kids, and so neither can be called for abandonment. We have mediation scheduled for August 2. Guns currently at my relatives. She has said she wants a amicable divorce, IF we in fact divorce.

Assuming that the mediation fails (it always does), give her 1/2 of what you own throw in 1/2 the value of your guns for good measure, agree to joint custody of the kids and try to get out of there.

Here will be the end result of a uncontested negotiated divorce:
- you still have 1/2 of your stuff (minus some lawyers expenses)
- you will be around to see your kids grow up
- you wont pay child support as you provide in-kind for your kids
- you may not pay alimony

(compare to results of contested divorce below)

I have a file full of notes and evidence. I have gotten to the point where I am going to stand and fight. I have made efforts, she has not. I have the backing now to obtain more resources. I don't want to hurt her, but if she lashes out and makes it ugly, my lawyer will launch a campaign of shock and awe.

Calm down, sleep on it. I know this is easier said than done.

Here are the predictable results of a contested divorce:

- you will own absolutely nothing
- you will be 100k in debt from legal expenses
- you wont have custody of the kids, just visitation rights, your ex will move to another state and you spend hundreds every month for flights to see your kids for 'your' weekend.
- you will pay full-rate child support
- you will pay her alimony
- after a year or two, she will have poisoned the kids minds enough that their lawyer (whom you will pay for) will file to have the visitation ended.

End result: You under a bridge.

Nobody wins in a divorce except for the lawyers. The objective is to keep the long-term impact of this destructive event to a minimum. Its like getting a leg shot off rather than a center mass hit.

As far as the guns. I am keeping them. Or she will lose all her shoes and jewelry.

If you know what her marketable stuff is worth, make it part of the financial settlement. She gets 1/2 the fair market value of your used guns, you get 1/2 of fair market value of her bling.

 

[gungate]

Some of you keep talking about "1/2". Maryland is not a community property state. In a MD divorce, there is an equitable division of property. "Equitable" does not mean "1/2"! Property you came with, you keep, property she came with, she keeps, and property you accumulated together is divided typically based on percent of income contributed. Of course there are always mitigating circumstances.

 

[G O B]

I will say this again because it NEEDS to be said. Get her mental health evaluated. This is for your and your children's sake. She is having a mental breakdown you cannot negotiate with a person who is not in touch with reality. You can also get a divorce on those grounds.

 

[whistlersmother]

I will say this again because it NEEDS to be said. Get her mental health evaluated. This is for your and your children's sake. She is having a mental breakdown you cannot negotiate with a person who is not in touch with reality. You can also get a divorce on those grounds.

He should be prepared to face mental health questions also because once she receives the request, she'll have her lawyer request it from OP regardless of it being warranted or not.

There was a nasty divorce in our neighborhood a few years back. From the filings at court, I could see the husband file for mental health assesment on the wife - a few days later he had been ordered for an examine. Both sides dropped the issue.

 

[traveller]

Some of you keep talking about "1/2". Maryland is not a community property state. In a MD divorce, there is an equitable division of property. "Equitable" does not mean "1/2"! Property you came with, you keep, property she came with, she keeps, and property you accumulated together is divided typically based on percent of income contributed. Of course there are always mitigating circumstances.

That only matters if one or both sides brings actual wealth into the marriage, e.g. through inheritance or a trust fund. For your normal working guy who married young and started at zero together it is for all practical purposes 1/2.

 

[fabsroman]

That only matters if one or both sides brings actual wealth into the marriage, e.g. through inheritance or a trust fund. For your normal working guy who married young and started at zero together it is for all practical purposes 1/2.

If you bring a trust of an inheritance into the marriage, even if it comes in during the marriage, as long as you keep it separate and apart from marital assets it is not considered marital property.

As far as getting exact credit for what you bring into a marriage, it doesn't always work that way. Maybe where both spouses do not modify their careers at all because of kids, but what happens when one goes part time to make sure he/she is home when the kids are home and available to pick them up from school should the need arise (e.g., me)?

How does it work when somebody quits their job entirely to raise the kids?

How does it work if one spouse makes twice as much as the other, but blows ALL that he/she makes on non-wealth building activities (e.g., shooting, eating, drinking). Meanwhile, the other spouse that makes half of that puts the vast majority of it in savings?

The way it normally works is that the amount of marital property is determined, which is usually the pool of assets that are not non-marital property. Then, each spouses starts out entitled to 1/2 and then there are mitigating circumstances to determine if one should be entitled to more/less. The entire relationship is a partnership, and just using somebody's earning potential does not take into account all the intangibles. How much should I be entitled to for all the child care, home repair, vehicle maintenance, lawn & landscaping, etc. that I do while my wife is working? What should I be entitled to for the 3 hours less of sleep I get a day compared to my wife because I am up late at night getting my work done while my wife and kids are asleep. How much more should I get because when I first met my wife I made more than her, but we decided I should reduce my practice size for the benefit of the kids because I was working from home (i.e., could make sure I was here the vast majority of the time for the kids) while she was working in a pharmacy and could not take the kids with her?

By the way, my situation is merely an example. My wife and I are nowhere near a divorce. Heck, we are nowhere near an argument. Last argument was last September when I wanted a STI 2011 after buying umpteen other guns because of SB281. We compromised on me getting the frame and then building up the gun later on and me buying a mill and/or CnC machine to build handgun frames.

Simply put, it isn't as simple as one spouse brought in 70% and the other brought in 30% and that is how the pie should be divided unless there are mitigating circumstances. If all both spouses contributed to the marriage was money from their jobs, neither was at fault, they both saved the same percentage of their salaries, etc., then that might work.

As my domestic relations professor, Judge Fader, would put it, "You determine the pool of marital assets, the judge goes yada, yada, yada, shazam" and you are arrive at the division of the marital assets. Then, since the judge cannot change the titling of assets, you determine the amount of the monetary award based upon the titling of the marital assets and who is keeping what.

End of the day, most couples would be better off just dividing the assets right down the middle versus paying for several attorneys to argue over it. Same goes for joint custody of the kids if both spouses are going to remain in the area. However, broken hearts and anger get in the way of things, and that is when the attorneys make some coin.

 

[traveller]

End of the day, most couples would be better off just dividing the assets right down the middle versus paying for several attorneys to argue over it. Same goes for joint custody of the kids if both spouses are going to remain in the area. However, broken hearts and anger get in the way of things, and that is when the attorneys make some coin.

I think we are saying the same thing.

With your typical situation of a young couple with some kids who have a house with a mortgage and cars with notes on them, there is very little to be split in the first place. As you say, once emotions and anger get into play, people will spend $20,000 in lawyers fees to split up $10,000 in joint marital assets. I have watched a divorce settlement getting re-negotiated over a crochet tablecloth. One party was awarded the little side-table it was on and the other thought the tablecloth would have to be accounted as a separate asset.

 

[Alphabrew]

Sorry, Sirex. I have no useful advice but this situation really sucks. Hope it works out for the best.