Home defense shotgun?

[HazyDayz]

Pumps:
Pro-
your motor program is the exact same to fire the next shot, or to clear a malfunction. If you fire, and need to fire again....rack and press trigger. If you press the trigger and nothing happens.... rack and press trigger.

They're also relatively cheap because manufacturers only worry about the FCG and bolt...they don't need to worry about precisely machining pistons, gas ports, or return springs since you're providing that energy.

Con-
They kick harder and they're not as fast. With semi's, some of the energy that's taken into the action has the effect of reducing recoil. They're not as fast because the shooter must, of course, perform the action of manually pumping between shots. Pumping also messes with your sight picture and changes your hold on the gun, including the force of your support side back towards your shoulder.


Semi-Autos
Pro-
They're fast and don't recoil much. The action on a semi will likely cycle completely before most people start pumping a pump-action. You also have the advantage of being able to maintain the same sight-picture and pressure with your support side. You can worry more about shooting the thing than performing its mechanical action.

Con- They're expensive and you need some extra motor programs. Semis DO need those precisely machined and tuned pistons/springs..etc. This will likely mean you're spending at least $600 for a reliable gun....with many of the better choices costing upwards over $1,000.

A big drawback, that's mitigated with training, is the reaction time to an ammunition-related malfunction. If all goes well, you press the trigger, and then press the trigger again as soon as you've reacquired the desired sight picture......quick. If you press a trigger and nothing happens though, your brain has to identify that a malfunction has taken place and then select the proper motor program to fix the problem. Essentially *click*....reach under and rack the bolt manually by the handle, and then switch back to shooting.

Summary
pump- cheap, slow shot-to-shot, fast malfunction clearing(ammo related), kicks hard

semi- expensive, fast shot-to-shot, potentially slower malfunction clearing(mitigated with training), less recoil.

Nice comparison.

 

[Joshvictus]

Semi-related side question - are there any decent (and safe) ways to simulate or practice clearing shotgun malfunctions/jams?

 

[smokey]

Semi-related side question - are there any decent (and safe) ways to simulate or practice clearing shotgun malfunctions/jams?

12 ga snap caps. Pick up a bunch for loading practice. At the range, randomly put them in the tube with live ammo to cause you to have to clear them. For work at home with them, it's important to be very aware of what you are doing to ensure you are using snap caps and that there is no live ammo anywhere in the room with you. As always, you should keep the muzzle in a safe direction just in case Murphy puts a live round in your tube with those snap caps.

 

[Joshvictus]

12 ga snap caps. Pick up a bunch for loading practice. At the range, randomly put them in the tube with live ammo to cause you to have to clear them. For work at home with them, it's important to be very aware of what you are doing to ensure you are using snap caps and that there is no live ammo anywhere in the room with you. As always, you should keep the muzzle in a safe direction just in case Murphy puts a live round in your tube with those snap caps.

What about in the ways of setting up a bad jam or double feed? (if any of that really happens in the shotgun world)

Easy enough in a handgun but I couldn't quite figure out a way to cause anything like that or really what would malfunction in general as I'm still new to shooting shotguns.

 

[HazyDayz]

What about in the ways of setting up a bad jam or double feed? (if any of that really happens in the shotgun world)

Easy enough in a handgun but I couldn't quite figure out a way to cause anything like that or really what would malfunction in general as I'm still new to shooting shotguns.

An autoloader might give you trouble, but with a pump, its uncommon if not unheard of to get a double feed or jam. Biggest problem with a pump gun is short stroking, which creates a failure to feed. Just rack the action with authority and it shouldn't bee too much of a problem.

 

[daNattyFatty]

Just rack the action with authority and it shouldn't bee too much of a problem.

And make sure to do that as soon as you pull the trigger/with the recoil. That way you come back on target, ready to go, instead of acquiring your target, then racking once the recoil subsides, potentially losing your sight picture.

 

[Selene]

An autoloader might give you trouble, but with a pump, its uncommon if not unheard of to get a double feed or jam. Biggest problem with a pump gun is short stroking, which creates a failure to feed. Just rack the action with authority and it shouldn't bee too much of a problem.

I disagree. I spend entirely too much time shooting clays and have been around 10s of thousands of shots. You are right about double feeds, I have never seen one. But in my exerience semis are no less reliable than pumps. Most semi failures I have seen have been failure to fire with the bolt not fully closing. These are remmidied easily.

I have seen plenty of pump jams, where after the initial shot the pump arm jams. On multiple ocasions on several guns this has required disassembly to clear. Although these are not common they do happen.

Bottom line, firearms are mechanical devices that can and do malfunction. Pumps are not as impervious to failures as many people will lead you to believe.

 

[HazyDayz]

I disagree. I spend entirely too much time shooting clays and have been around 10s of thousands of shots. You are right about double feeds, I have never seen one. But in my exerience semis are no less reliable than pumps. Most semi failures I have seen have been failure to fire with the bolt not fully closing. These are remmidied easily.

I have seen plenty of pump jams, where after the initial shot the pump arm jams. On multiple ocasions on several guns this has required disassembly to clear. Although these are not common they do happen.

Bottom line, firearms are mechanical devices that can and do malfunction. Pumps are not as impervious to failures as many people will lead you to believe.

Your experience far exceeds my own, so I will defer to you. My comment is based on my limited experiences and those of my friends.

Firearms are mechanical, and they can, and do, fail. I fully agree that any gun no matter how reliable can fail.

 

[Long1MD]

Is it entirely too late to suggest the KSG loaded with PDX1 as an HD shotgun? ...works at my house

 

[HazyDayz]

Is it entirely too late to suggest the KSG loaded with PDX1 as an HD shotgun? ...works at my house

Drool.

 

[Americus]

AA-12

 

[Docster]

Nah, I think it is time to start thread #649 on HD shotguns. You can never over discuss this topic.

We all know the Rem 870 tactical express is the ONLY one suitable.

^^This. Might as well do away with the 'SEARCH' function. Seems few folks want to do the work themselves......