Here is the AG Opinion on Loaded Magazines

[Maryland Hunter]

So what happens if you are pulled over, prove that you have complied with the law. Should you consent to a search to begin with or just tell the officer everything that you have and in what capacity along with the letter from the AG? If the situation escalates, what should a person do to protect themselves from other measures that might be taken? Hopefully with the letter and the transport laws, everything will be OK.

I wouldn't mention the guns in the first place, no reason to. I am 100% legal regarding the firearms. If it came to needing the paperwork, I'll get it out, and, politely and respectfully, go over it with the officers, to show them that I am complying. My unloaded guns enroute to the range, and my loaded mags, are no more illegal than the pen knife in my pocket or the diet coke in my console. I'm not trying to work a loophole here, I'm just trying to do what the law allows me to do.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

"inaccessible" is another urban legend

anyway, the question i got from that story is this...in the pamphlet at continental when it mentions loaded mags being illegal it says if they're accessable. so if you do have loaded mags what is considered inaccessable?

If we are talking about a handgun, there is nothing in the Maryland statute (Sec. 4-203) that says the ammunition has to be inaccessible, whether or not the ammo is in a magazine. The statute merely says that each handgun must be "unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster." While I would not recommend the practice, as matter of fact, if the unloaded handgun and the ammo were both in the same enclosed holster, and it was sitting in your lap, that would not violate the statute.

If you were making a trip across state lines and wanted to claim the protection of the federal gun transportation statute (18 USC Sec. 926A), then you would have to keep the unloaded gun and ammo in a location not readily accessible, as detailed in that law.

I am not a lawyer.

 

[novus collectus]

If we are talking about a handgun, there is nothing in the Maryland statute (Sec. 4-203) that says the ammunition has to be inaccessible, whether or not the ammo is in a magazine. The statute merely says that each handgun must be "unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster." While I would not recommend the practice, as matter of fact, if the unloaded handgun and the ammo were both in the same enclosed holster, and it was sitting in your lap, that would not violate the statute.

If you were making a trip across state lines and wanted to claim the protection of the federal gun transportation statute (18 USC Sec. 926A), then you would have to keep the unloaded gun and ammo in a location not readily accessible, as detailed in that law.

I am not a lawyer.

I think I discovered teh confusion on some LEO's part and that more than a decade old pamophlet's part that a certain gun range keeps touting about. There is indeed something in a statute about ammunition and ANY gun part which is accessible which may be siezed when a handgun is transported when not going to the range, between residences, to an informal target practice, etc.

Whomever wrote that pamphlet probably confused the two statutes. Also, the wording of the statute changed ever so slightly since 1998 (in 2001 or 2002). If someone is going to cite something as proof of law that is citing the wording of a statute that no longer exists in the exact same form....then maybe they should think about updating their info.

This is the statute which may be confusing some.

Article - Criminal Procedure

§ 13-201.

The following property is subject to seizure and forfeiture:

(1) a handgun worn, carried, or transported in violation of § 4-203 or § 4-204 of the Criminal Law Article or sold, rented, transferred, or possessed in violation of § 5-103, § 5-104, § 5-118, § 5-119, § 5-120, § 5-121, § 5-122, § 5-123, § 5-124, § 5-125, § 5-126, § 5-127, § 5-128, § 5-129, § 5-133(a), (b), and (d), § 5-134, or § 5-136 of the Public Safety Article; and

(2) ammunition, handgun parts, or handgun appurtenances that are:

(i) worn, carried, or transported in violation of § 4-203 or § 4-204 of the Criminal Law Article; or

(ii) found in the immediate vicinity of a handgun worn, carried, or transported in violation of § 4-203 or § 4-204 of the Criminal Law Article.

Note, if you are transporting a handgun to the range it does not say ammunition must be seperate or else you are violating 4-203 any more than it would say having a pistol scope, spare barrell or cleaning kit next ti it is a violation of 4-203 either.

Someone writing that pamphlet doesn't seem to have double checked their facts.

 

[garber38]

I do travel completely legal all of the time, but reloading the mags at the range is a pain. I wouldn't mention it at all, but I have a small p/u and it prob. can't be helped that the officer can see everything. I would start by explaining that everything is legit along with the letter and then just see what happens. My mags are always away from the others though.

 

[Redneck]

My gf was pulled over and asked if she had alcohol, drugs, and guns in the truck. Now say I get pulled over on my way or coming from the range and get asked the same thing, I take it I should be honest, but if he/she asks to perform a search what should I say? I keep my unloaded guns in a locked case(s) and the loaded mags and ammo in a separate locked case. Consent to a search or no? Im guessing me acknowledging I have guns is probable cause for a search????

 

[Splitter]

"Why do you ask, Officer? Am I free to go or are you detaining me?"

Splitter

 

[smokey]

"Why do you ask, Officer? Am I free to go or are you detaining me?"

Splitter

+1 plus you're under no obligation to be truthful because you're not sworn to oath and typically haven't been read your miranda rights by that point in a traffic stop. it's perfectly legal to lie...now if it's in plain sight and you're lying, then that could be reasonable cause..but there's nothing saying you've gotta say anything

 

[Trapper]

+1 plus you're under no obligation to be truthful because you're not sworn to oath and typically haven't been read your miranda rights by that point in a traffic stop. it's perfectly legal to lie...now if it's in plain sight and you're lying, then that could be reasonable cause..but there's nothing saying you've gotta say anything

I thought it was illegal to lie to an officer? I know it is perfectly legal for them to lie to you, but thought lying to them is out. ???

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I thought it was illegal to lie to an officer? I know it is perfectly legal for them to lie to you, but thought lying to them is out. ???

No in Maryland its not illegal unless you make a false statement that causes them to initiate an investigation. NOTE: I am not talking about Federal LEOs here.

 

[JMintzer]

jenni got all mad and embarrassed and the shooting trip just wasnt as fun as it should've been cause roadie dude was wrong. i admitted i goofed with store policy but he was rude and kept giving me shit about it being illegal. I gotta remember to only go when adodson, jminzer or you're there so i can get excellent customer service.

Huh?

I don't know nuthin' 'bout Continental. Never been there...


Jamie

 

[smokey]

Huh?

I don't know nuthin' 'bout Continental. Never been there...


Jamie

woops, brain fart...meant gibby

 

[coinboy]

My gf was pulled over and asked if she had alcohol, drugs, and guns in the truck. Now say I get pulled over on my way or coming from the range and get asked the same thing, I take it I should be honest, but if he/she asks to perform a search what should I say? I keep my unloaded guns in a locked case(s) and the loaded mags and ammo in a separate locked case. Consent to a search or no? Im guessing me acknowledging I have guns is probable cause for a search????

What makes you think you have to say anything? Saying things CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW. They WILL NOT help you! When Mr. or Ms. Officer asks you a question just shut up! Nothing says you have to even say hello to a cop. That's why we have the 5th Amendment!

Officer: "Do you have guns, knives, hookers, drugs in the car?"
or
Officer: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"

You: "..."

Officer: "Not talking, eh?"

Officer goes back to his cruiser steaming with your license and registration and runs everything about your entire life and knows your mothers maiden name and your first born child.

You wait patiently.

Officer comes back to your car. Most likely tries to talk to you again. How does he know your not a mute? Last I checked you don't need to be able to talk to pass the drivers licensing exam.

Officer provides you with ticket or warning (if you didn't piss him off too much.)

You drive away.

Last I checked, lying to an officer was not illegal in this state however if you don't say anything, you aren't lying!

On the other hand, if they ask to search your car, tell them no and ask if you are free to go.

If they ask you to get out of the car, you must. Make sure you shut and lock all windows and doors.

 

[gamer_jim]

What makes you think you have to say anything? Saying things CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW. They WILL NOT help you! When Mr. or Ms. Officer asks you a question just shut up! Nothing says you have to even say hello to a cop. That's why we have the 5th Amendment!

Officer: "Do you have guns, knives, hookers, drugs in the car?"
or
Officer: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"

You: "..."

Officer: "Not talking, eh?"

Officer goes back to his cruiser steaming with your license and registration and runs everything about your entire life and knows your mothers maiden name and your first born child.

You wait patiently.

Officer comes back to your car. Most likely tries to talk to you again. How does he know your not a mute? Last I checked you don't need to be able to talk to pass the drivers licensing exam.

Officer provides you with ticket or warning (if you didn't piss him off too much.)

You drive away.

Last I checked, lying to an officer was not illegal in this state however if you don't say anything, you aren't lying!

On the other hand, if they ask to search your car, tell them no and ask if you are free to go.

If they ask you to get out of the car, you must. Make sure you shut and lock all windows and doors.

I see what your saying here. And I've seen the videos about why you should never talk to cops.

But is there a more respectful way to tell a cop you are not answering his question without actually not saying anything or lying to them?

I feel like if I say "I refuse to answer your questions" They could use that as probable cause--pull me out of the car, cuff then search through my car to find nothing really there. This takes up an hour of my life because I just didn't do what the cop wanted me to do in the first place. And that's if the cop was nice, what if you get a jerk for a cop that treats you worse? Yes it's a violation of my rights and I'd have to hire an attorney to sue. But it might just be easier to answer the cops questions. After all most cops are the good guys and don't have those kinds of issues.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's easy to say on this forum "never respond to a cop" but when I'm late to something and my wife is yelling at me from the passenger's seat it might just be easier to say "no officer". Am I making sense?

 

[Ab_Normal]

Saying yes may give them probable cause. Saying no would not give them any more probable cause than they already have. If the officer wants you out of the car you're coming out of the car - legitimately or otherwise.

What's the old saying...oh yeah - just say NO.*

*Unless they are plainly visible.

 

[Splitter]

A cop pulls you over, you are now at DEFCON 4. Chances are he didn't pull you over to remind you that you left your wallet on the roof of your car. Be relaxed but wary.

Be respectful, deferential, and polite. If he/she ups the ante, just answer questions with questions.

Do you know why I pulled you over?
No, sir (That's a direct answer but no problem there. Why be the one to start being a d!ck? And you are not a liar. You might know you were 7mph over the limit, but you don't know that is why he pulled you over....your brake light might be out.)

I think a lot of times police just give you the warning or ticket and move on. No reason to go to DEFCON 3. If they are just doing their job at traffic enforcement, no reason to argue with them.

But if the questions start:

Do you know how fast you were going?
<laugh, smile> Well, I am sure you are going to tell me what you clocked me at. (A non-answer answer. If you say "62", then you have admitted guilt for no reason)

Have you had anything to drink today?
Nothing with alcohol, sir (why evade here?), why do you ask? OR simply....why do you ask?

Where are you headed in such a hurry?
Why do you ask?

Any guns, bombs, hand grenades in the your car?
Why would you even ask that? (They often throw outlandish things out there to gauge your reaction)

Whatcha got under the hood?
I'm not exactly sure, why do you ask?

Any drugs or other illegal substances in the car?
I'm not sure why you would ask me that...(You could say "no", but are you sure? Have you been in your car at all times since the last time it was inspected/searched? Isn't aspirin a drug? Have you given any friends a ride lately and did you fully inspect the car after they exited?)

You like the Ravens?
(I would lie here lol)

Mind if I take a look?
Officer, I do not consent to any searches, am I free to go now?

If the officer decides to pull you out and do a search anyway, go into Gandhi mode. Nonthreatening, unemotional, absolutely quiet, serene. There is no argument you are going to win on the side of the road and don't even think about resisting anything physically. Basically, go emotionally and intellectually limp. Except, keep asking whether or not you are free to go. You are never, ever going to go beyond DEFCON 3 lol.

When you start to feel the officer is being intrusive, go to Defcon 3 and start answering questions with questions. Being nice and respectful up front may get you a warning or reduced charge. Heck, being respectful and deferential up front might get you a ticket and a five minute stop without any questions. Not all cops are out to make their career off you.

If he/she starts to ask intrusive questions, it's time to start answering with questions. The officer has gone beyond what they pulled you over for and is now digging for dirt on you.

I don't want to escalate anything. I'm just a guy going about my business. If the officer doesn't want to escalate anything either, everything is good. As my wife would say, "Don't start none and there won't be none" lol

Mutual respect goes a long way.

Splitter

 

[novus collectus]

I see what your saying here. And I've seen the videos about why you should never talk to cops.

But is there a more respectful way to tell a cop you are not answering his question without actually not saying anything or lying to them?

I feel like if I say "I refuse to answer your questions" They could use that as probable cause--pull me out of the car, cuff then search through my car to find nothing really there. This takes up an hour of my life because I just didn't do what the cop wanted me to do in the first place. And that's if the cop was nice, what if you get a jerk for a cop that treats you worse? Yes it's a violation of my rights and I'd have to hire an attorney to sue. But it might just be easier to answer the cops questions. After all most cops are the good guys and don't have those kinds of issues.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's easy to say on this forum "never respond to a cop" but when I'm late to something and my wife is yelling at me from the passenger's seat it might just be easier to say "no officer". Am I making sense?

I have never tried this, but it makes sense to me.....in response to the "do you have any weapons" question respond with "I am not transporting or possessing any weapons illegally" and if they request a search say you are not interested.

Saying no to a search is not probable cause (and I have been in a car when we refused a search and they just said "ok") and if you tell the truth that you are not possessing or transporting a handgun or knife illegally then even if there is a gun or knife in the car (legally of course), you did not lie to them and one should not be feeling or expressing nervousness, or having a feeling of being dishonest because....well....you are being honest.
If you are going to the range or other location or purpose approved in the statute for modern handguns transport and if the unloaded handgun is in an enclosed holster or enclosed case then you are not illegally possessing or transporting a handgun and simply stating you are not illegally possessing any weapon when asked is not lying or mis-representing the truth in any way.

 

[Ab_Normal]

I have never tried this, but it makes sense to me.....in response to the "do you have any weapons" question respond with "I am not transporting or possessing any weapons illegally" and if they request a search say you are not interested.

Saying no to a search is not probable cause (and I have been in a car when we refused a search and they just said "ok") and if you tell the truth that you are not possessing or transporting a handgun or knife illegally then even if there is a gun or knife in the car (legally of course), you did not lie to them and one should not be feeling or expressing nervousness, or having a feeling of being dishonest because....well....you are being honest.
If you are going to the range or other location or purpose approved in the statute for modern handguns transport and if the unloaded handgun is in an enclosed holster or enclosed case then you are not illegally possessing or transporting a handgun and simply stating you are not illegally possessing any weapon when asked is not lying or mis-representing the truth in any way.

How about "I have no illegal (insert item class here) in the vehicle"?

 

[strube]

I have never tried this, but it makes sense to me.....in response to the "do you have any weapons" question respond with "I am not transporting or possessing any weapons illegally" and if they request a search say you are not interested.

This sounds like the best option however I've never been asked about weapons in the car. I have been asked every time about where I was going and if I was heading to a range what would be the best thing to say? I don't think lying would be smart here in case a search does happen. I doubt saying you are heading to the range constitutes PC but you never know.

 

[actionpistolshooter]

That is one way to do it. But I find no requirement in Maryland law that the loaded magazines must be kept in location at a distance from the gun -- as long as the loaded magazine is not IN the gun (because if it was IN the gun, that would be considered "loaded," even if no cartridge had been chambered). The statute requires only that the handgun be "unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster." It doesn't say anything about the location of ammunition, so long as it is not in the gun. It appears to me that the statutory requirement would be fulfilled, for example, if the handgun was carried, unloaded, in the same zippered-shut pistol rug as any number of loaded magazines.

Also, the statute does not say anything about the location of the enclosed, unloaded handgun, or the loaded magazines outside the handgun, relative to your body.

Of course, to avoid violating the law, you must be traveling to or from one of the "approved" locations or activities, enumerated in the statute, unless you have a carry permit.

So, I have several of those nifty bags from Midway that has a zippered pouch for a handgun, two zippered pouches on one side for accessories and a Velcro flap that coves 7 small pouches for magazines.

Assuming compliance with all other aspects of MD law (gun unloaded, going to/from approved place, zippers closed, flaps down, etc.) I read this discussion to mean loaded magazines in the Velcro covered pouches are no problem, correct?

 

[smokey]

I see what your saying here. And I've seen the videos about why you should never talk to cops.

But is there a more respectful way to tell a cop you are not answering his question without actually not saying anything or lying to them?

I feel like if I say "I refuse to answer your questions" They could use that as probable cause--pull me out of the car, cuff then search through my car to find nothing really there. This takes up an hour of my life because I just didn't do what the cop wanted me to do in the first place. And that's if the cop was nice, what if you get a jerk for a cop that treats you worse? Yes it's a violation of my rights and I'd have to hire an attorney to sue. But it might just be easier to answer the cops questions. After all most cops are the good guys and don't have those kinds of issues.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's easy to say on this forum "never respond to a cop" but when I'm late to something and my wife is yelling at me from the passenger's seat it might just be easier to say "no officer". Am I making sense?

my firearms aren't weapons because i've never used them with such intent. My pencil could be a weapon if i stabbed someone in the throat with it, but since i'm not...it's just a pencil. My firearms are just tools to put holes in things. If i've got a trunk full of guns and reply "No sir" to "Do you have any weapons in the car" i don't feel guilty, because they're not weapons...they're just firearms until i use them as a weapon. Otherwise they wouldn't have to say that, anything that could potentially be used as a weapon would satisfy that and everybody they asked that question to would have to say yes. "do you have any weapons in the car?" .."yes, my shoes, my shoelaces, my keys, my pen, my seatbelt, my fists, my books in the back, my baseball bat, the baseballs in the bat bag.... " because you could use all of that as a weapon.