Heller decision and "bearing arms"

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  • Tom43491

    Active Member
    Dec 9, 2009
    146
    Timonium
    I was reading the SCOTUS decision on Heller, from the Supreme Court's website, supplied in PDF format, found here:
    http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

    In reading through, I came to an interesting section, on page 19. It sounds as though the Supreme Court has already made the distinction that the 2nd Amendment secures the INDIVIDUAL right to CARRY ARMS ON THEIR PERSON FOR SELF DEFENSE!

    "Opinion of the Court
    c. Meaning of the Operative Clause. Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment.We look to this because it has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right. The very text of the Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it “shall not be infringed.” As we said in United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553 (1876), “[t]his is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed . . . .”

    and much further down, on page 30:

    "Our interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed adoption of the Second Amendment. Four States adopted analogues to the Federal Second Amendment in the period between independence and the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Two of them— Pennsylvania and Vermont—clearly adopted individual rights unconnected to militia service. Pennsylvania’s Declaration of Rights of 1776 said: “That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves, and the state . . . .” §XIII, in 5 Thorpe 3082, 3083 (emphasis added). In 1777, Vermont adopted the identical provision, except for inconsequential differences in punctuation and capitalization."

    Based on this, and the rest of the findings, isn't the groundwork already laid to make the argument that Maryland's restrictions are unconstitutional, and that anyone who is "not disapproved" to buy a handgun has the pre-existing, guarateed right to carry the handgun for self defense in case of confrontation?
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    I'll have to reread and am not going to now, but I want to say the Opinion written made mention that this did NOT condone nor endorse concealed carry...

    McDonald, depending again on how the Opinion is written, could open up doors if it doesn't have that language the "I recall". If written as the 2A does apply to the states/municipalities via either 1)Due Process or 2)Privileges or Immunities (the 2nd have a LOT more weight) and shall not be infringed, there will be wiggle room in McDonald that isn't in Heller (as I recall)...

    Go back to the Heller link and do a find (Ctrl-F) for 'concealed'...it yields a bunch...

    Mark C.
     

    Tom43491

    Active Member
    Dec 9, 2009
    146
    Timonium
    I see the text you are referring to. I would prefer open carry anyway :)
    It sounds to me like that is what was intended, anyway. The right to carry a weapon for self defense. The fact that concealed carry prohibitions have been upheld tells me that the 2nd Amendment protects the right to openly carry.

    Hopefully things will go the way we all hope with McDonald.
     

    gruntz03

    Active Member
    Jan 6, 2009
    649
    Lusby
    It would seem to me that the Constitution, 2A, or the Supreme Court wouldn't specify open or concealed carry, just the right to bear arms. The method of carry would be covered by something else.
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Remember that Heller was in reference to DC's laws that said that even in your home, guns had to be locked.

    The bearing of arms referenced in Heller meant in the home, and obviated the locking up and uselesness of guns within your home for self defense.

    Mark C.
     

    gruntz03

    Active Member
    Jan 6, 2009
    649
    Lusby
    Probably the states. I would think that concealed carry would be more acceptable/comfortable to most people.
     

    Spot77

    Ultimate Member
    May 8, 2005
    11,591
    Anne Arundel County
    I see the text you are referring to. I would prefer open carry anyway :)
    It sounds to me like that is what was intended, anyway. The right to carry a weapon for self defense. The fact that concealed carry prohibitions have been upheld tells me that the 2nd Amendment protects the right to openly carry.
    Hopefully things will go the way we all hope with McDonald.

    That's what most of us are hoping for. If MD is forced to allow open carry, they'll likely prefer concealed carry and allow legislation through finally.
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    That's what most of us are hoping for. If MD is forced to allow open carry, they'll likely prefer concealed carry and allow legislation through finally.

    Yepper...as someone else mentioned if Open Carry is permitted, I might just be in the market for an 8" S&W 500...and maybe a thong to go with it...it ain't gonna be pretty!

    Mark C.
     

    Tom43491

    Active Member
    Dec 9, 2009
    146
    Timonium
    Remember that Heller was in reference to DC's laws that said that even in your home, guns had to be locked.

    The bearing of arms referenced in Heller meant in the home, and obviated the locking up and uselesness of guns within your home for self defense.

    Mark C.

    The home was mentioned in regards to the specifics of the Heller case, but I don't believe the home was mentioned in the decision in regards to the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. I have only recently started trying to educate myself on this matter, so please correct me if I am wrong!
     

    boricuamaximus

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 27, 2008
    6,237
    I'll get a .50 cal Desert Eagle Gold Plated with Tiger stripes just to it nice and shiny and loud. As soon as I get my CCW I'll sell it. That's if they rule for open-carry.
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    The home was mentioned in regards to the specifics of the Heller case, but I don't believe the home was mentioned in the decision in regards to the meaning of the 2nd Amendment. I have only recently started trying to educate myself on this matter, so please correct me if I am wrong!

    In the opinion written by Scalia:

    Pg 57
    Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone throughthe 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake anexhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of theSecond Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.26




    Pg 59 & 60
    IV We turn finally to the law at issue here. As we have said, the law totally bans handgun possession in the home.It also requires that any lawful firearm in the home bedisassembled or bound by a trigger lock at all times, rendering
    it inoperable.As the quotations earlier in this opinion demonstrate,the inherent right of self-defense has been central to theSecond Amendment right. The handgun ban amounts to aprohibition of an entire class of “arms” that is overwhelmingly
    chosen by American society for that lawful purpose. The prohibition extends, moreover, to the home, where the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute.Under any of the standards of scrutiny that we have applied
    to enumerated constitutional rights,27 banning from the home “the most preferred firearm in the nation to ‘keep’ and use for protection of one’s home and family,” 478 F. 3d, at 400, would fail constitutional muster.
    Few laws in the history of our Nation have come close tothe severe restriction of the District’s handgun ban. And some of those few have been struck down. In Nunn v. State, the Georgia Supreme Court struck down a prohibition on carrying pistols openly (even though it upheld a prohibition on carrying concealed weapons)..

    Pg 61
    Apart from his (Heller) challenge to the handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement respondent asked the DistrictCourt to enjoin petitioners from enforcing the separate licensing requirement “in such a manner as to forbid the carrying of a firearm within one’s home or possessed land without a license.”

    It's written throughout the decision...

    Thanks again...

    Mark C.
     

    X-Factor

    I don't say please
    Jun 2, 2009
    5,244
    Calvert County
    Page 57 does not mention the carry and use in the home and only explicitly denies ownership to felons and those that are mentally ill. It forbids carry in schools etc which agrees with historical adherence to the "spirit" of the 2A.

    59, 60, and 61 specifically refer to the home and the unconstitutionality of DC homeownership restrictions.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,784
    I believe the odds of a favorable decision are quite high.

    That said, no one can ever fully predict the court.
     

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