HB713 Selling Anything With Ivory

[Redcobra]

So, If I sell my very old piano, I can be jailed?
Or do I have to take all the white keys off and replace with plastic?
Then what do I do with the old Ivories???Send them back to the Elephants?

 

[MJD438]

I looked at this and didn't see a companion bill in the senate, do you have one you can point to?

There isn't one (searched both Natural Resources and Hunting & Fishing).

 

[Lou45]

I looked at this and didn't see a companion bill in the senate, do you have one you can point to?

I received this bill info from my attorney shortly before I started this thread. He didn't indicate anything from the Senate side.

So, If I sell my very old piano, I can be jailed?
Or do I have to take all the white keys off and replace with plastic?
Then what do I do with the old Ivories???Send them back to the Elephants?

Answers:

1. Possibly, and if you're a dealer in business regardless of what type of business, the answer is yes.
2. Yes.
3. Sell'em out'ta state I guess.
4. If you can track'em down.

 

[Clovis]

I received this bill info from my attorney shortly before I started this thread. He didn't indicate anything from the Senate side.






QUOTE]

Thanks Lou. I don't know if this is going anywhere without a senate version. If you want, certainly keep an eye on it, but keep in mind it needs to get through committee (although some of the sponsors are on the committee) then a floor vote and a hearing on the senate side and a senate vote. I have to wonder how taxpayers(voters) would react finding that violators will be arrested, tried, and jailed on their dime while the birdwatchers get the fines.

Course, this is Maryland.

 

[shooting again]

So, If I sell my very old piano, I can be jailed?
Or do I have to take all the white keys off and replace with plastic?
Then what do I do with the old Ivories???Send them back to the Elephants?

(Warning: serious response)There aren't clear answers to your questions and this is a significant concern for those who do piano and organ restoration work. The American Institute of Organbuilders has devoted a lot of effort trying to trying to get the various parts of the federal government to sort this out. It's another example of lawmakers not thinking through the full impact of what they're doing.

Some may find a similarity to recent actions such as the language in last year's flurry of gun bills. Maybe someday here will be a requirement that those who write bills know what they are talking about.

 

[zoostation]

So, If I sell my very old piano, I can be jailed?
Or do I have to take all the white keys off and replace with plastic?
Then what do I do with the old Ivories???Send them back to the Elephants?

They raided Gibson guitars for using some verboten type of South American wood (though that was federal). I wouldn't put anything past the tree huggers.

 

[Bob A]

They raided Gibson guitars for using some verboten type of South American wood (though that was federal). I wouldn't put anything past the tree huggers.

The Gibson raid was even worse than you mentioned. The deal was, the wood was actually not forbidden, but the originating country had laws that the wood had to be processed there. US decided that we had to enforce their laws, here, so they raided Gibson. Gibson had documented the chain of transmission of the wood, and it was actually legally received. Apparently Gibson was not permitted to see the charges that were filed.

Didn't help that the Gibson CEO had made significant contributions to the Republican Party. Some think that this was the underlying cause; you may recall the IRS being sicced on some big Republican contributors in the early days of the Obama admin.

Others think it was a Union deal; Gibson, in TN, is right-to-work; it was said that the whole thing could be made to go away with some cash contributions. (You may recall the Union hassle, supported by the Obama admin, when Boeing wanted to build aircraft in SC?)

Anyway, here's an interesting link to the story; be sure to read about the special Gibson Government-model guitars at the end.

http://humanevents.com/2014/05/30/the-true-villains-behind-the-gibson-guitar-raid-are-revealed/

 

[TopShelf]

See no status update out here: http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=03&id=hb0713&tab=subject3&ys=2015RS

Anyone know status of the bill?

 

[MJD438]

http://mgahouse.maryland.gov/house/...?catalog/03e481c7-8a42-4438-a7da-93ff74bdaa4c - Video of the hearing, skip to 4:11:15 for this bill.

Status would be that it was given a hearing. Depending on the whim of the Committee Chairman, it will be put to a vote at some point or left in the drawer.

 

[5.56blaster]

Millions in the red and this? This state sucks!

 

[Minuteman]

Damn. I got rolled.

LOL. I got rick-rolled too. That was funny.

Um ivory... I don't know anything about it, I don't think I have anything with ivory in/on it, not sure I could even identify it from a piece of white plastic - having said that ... I'm with Lou45, oppose!

 

[Minuteman]

I just read an article that they are destroying tons of ivory. Isn't all this going a bit too far? I mean, I don't want elephants to go extinct, and hate poachers, but what good is destroying all this ivory, or passing these progressively invasive laws really doing?

If I hadn't read this thread I would have had no idea, and if this law passes, then one day I'm at a gun show and unwittingly purchase or somehow try to sell something with ivory in it; I'm suddenly a criminal? What if the police setup a table at a gun show with a few trinkets with ivory in/on them and just start arresting people. Remember that sting operation where the police went 'undercover' (how exciting) to a gun show and tricked a couple hillbilly's into selling them a couple 30 round mags (in a state that only allowed 20 round mags)? I don't remember the details, probably don't remember this right; but you get my point. I've had enough of people screwing with people for some elitist, misdirected purpose. Seriously, leave people the hell alone.

What's next, go into museums and destroy antiques, like this pearl handled (or is it ivory?) revolver that General Patton once owned?

Ref: http://www.guns.com/2011/06/17/the-known-and-lesser-known-carry-guns-of-george-s-patton/

Then what's next, ban pearl?

'Grandma'! up against they wall, that ivory cameo around your neck - it's illegal! We don't care if it's a 'family air-loom, off to jail with you!

Didn't these same 'progressives' once throw paint on people that wore fur? What happened to my America?

 

[Lou45]

I just read an article that they are destroying tons of ivory. Isn't all this going a bit too far? I mean, I don't want elephants to go extinct, and hate poachers, but what good is destroying all this ivory, or passing these progressively invasive laws really doing?

If I hadn't read this thread I would have had no idea, and if this law passes, then one day I'm at a gun show and unwittingly purchase or somehow try to sell something with ivory in it; I'm suddenly a criminal? What if the police setup a table at a gun show with a few trinkets with ivory in/on them and just start arresting people. Remember that sting operation where the police went 'undercover' (how exciting) to a gun show and tricked a couple hillbilly's into selling them a couple 30 round mags (in a state that only allowed 20 round mags)? I don't remember the details, probably don't remember this right; but you get my point. I've had enough of people screwing with people for some elitist, misdirected purpose. Seriously, leave people the hell alone.

What's next, go into museums and destroy antiques, like this pearl handled (or is it ivory?) revolver that General Patton once owned?

Ref: http://www.guns.com/2011/06/17/the-known-and-lesser-known-carry-guns-of-george-s-patton/

Then what's next, ban pearl?

'Grandma'! up against they wall, that ivory cameo around your neck - it's illegal! We don't care if it's a 'family air-loom, off to jail with you!

Didn't these same 'progressives' once throw paint on people that wore fur? What happened to my America?

You've definitely seen the light here.

I'm against the poaching for ivory trade and Federal Law covers this pretty well here in the U.S. too. But if a jewelry dealer (ie business) sells your ol' great granmaw's cameo with ivory in/on it that you have on consignment with that dealer, if caught, that jewelry dealer's gonna' be prosecuted and possibly you too.

Your other example is rightous too, the one that you state you don't know ivory from pearl and I may add to this, whalebone.

 

[GUNSnROTORS]

A steaming turd, like most MD legislation. https://legiscan.com/MD/text/HB713/id/1122910

As usual, writing legislation when they don't understand the domain. No exclusions. Good thing - Woolly mammoth poaching (for ivory grips and knife scales) is threatening the last remaining populations of those noble pachyderms ...

On the lighter side, notice they're not going after ebony - those racist bastards.

 

[TopShelf]

http://mgahouse.maryland.gov/house/...?catalog/03e481c7-8a42-4438-a7da-93ff74bdaa4c - Video of the hearing, skip to 4:11:15 for this bill.

Status would be that it was given a hearing. Depending on the whim of the Committee Chairman, it will be put to a vote at some point or left in the drawer.

Thanks. There was a mention from the sponsor of a possible amendment to exclude firearms from the law. I suppose we just stay tuned - link to bill info http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=03&id=hb0713&tab=subject3&ys=2015RS

 

[Mr H]

Hadn't given this much thought beyond "morons."

Who is pushing this, since it seems to be more than just Maryland?

Destroying existing ivory as well?? Do they not realize that will INCREASE poaching?

Is it a shiny object? Or, is this a sideways attempt to create a crisis?

 

[Lou45]

Thanks. There was a mention from the sponsor of a possible amendment to exclude firearms from the law. I suppose we just stay tuned - link to bill info http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=03&id=hb0713&tab=subject3&ys=2015RS

Yeah, but what about your ol' great granmaw's ivory cameo??? And any OTHER items that one has in their possession (or business) that they want to sell??? If one (business) mistakes ivory to be a different substance such as whale bone and attempts to sell it and is caught, prosecution can be heading their way. Kill the bill. The elephant's already dead and the jackasses wanna' try to kill it even more.

 

[TopShelf]

Yeah, but what about your ol' great granmaw's ivory cameo??? And any OTHER items that one has in their possession (or business) that they want to sell??? If one (business) mistakes ivory to be a different substance such as whale bone and attempts to sell it and is caught, prosecution can be heading their way. Kill the bill. The elephant's already dead and the jackasses wanna' try to kill it even more.

Agreed. Didn't mean to imply that just because of the amendment that we should more on

 

[TopShelf]

3/16/2015 - Unfavorable Report by Judiciary

 

[Lou45]

3/16/2015 - Unfavorable Report by Judiciary