G-20sf vs. G-21sf

[Armadillofz1]

I'm thinking about upping the caliber of my EDC. Currently my G-19 fits the role about 90% of the time. I understand the rather significant size increase of the 20/21 over the 19. I'm looking for a comparison of the two cartridges, specifically from the 20 and 21 . Recoil, stopping power, penetration, etc. I've fired plenty of .45acp and have several firearms in this caliber, I know virtually nothing of 10mm and have not fired a round.

 

[retrorichard]

10mm

I've got a g20 gen 3. If you live near rockville and wanna meet at Gilbert's ill let you try a magazine out for size.

 

[Devonian]

I'm really not a very experienced shooter but I own a G20 and have shoot around 1,000 rounds of 10mm. I find that 10mm is more of a snappy recoil to .45's slow push. Full power 10mm can be a little uncomfortable to shoot and I know that my groups open up when I'm shooting it.

 

[Armadillofz1]

I've got a g20 gen 3. If you live near rockville and wanna meet at Gilbert's ill let you try a magazine out for size.

I appreciate the offer but i'm out west.

 

[Devonian]

It's kind of like the difference between 9mm and .40 exept on a slightly larger scale. Both the 10mm and .40 are snappy sharp recoils.

 

[Armadillofz1]

I'm really not a very experienced shooter but I own a G20 and have shoot around 1,000 rounds of 10mm. I find that 10mm is more of a snappy recoil to .45's slow push. Full power 10mm can be a little uncomfortable to shoot and I know that my groups open up when I'm shooting it.

Getting back on target is definitely a concern too. There isn't any place around here that i can rent one, i may just buy a used one to test.

 

[swinokur]

I have a G20Sf, and a G29SF both Gen 3. The 10mm is snappy like a hot 40 but for normal to large people it's ok.

I shoot Underwood Ammo 180g at 1300 FPS for both range and SD

I have a Dan Wesson RZ 10 sitting at my FFL awaiting it's submission to the Handgun Roster Board (don't ask you don't have this BS where you live.)

I also have 4 S&W Gen 3 10 mm's. 1076 (Old FBI pistol model)1026, 1006, 1066

Yes I love 10mm pistols.

ETA-getting back on target is more difficult than a 9mm or a 45. For me anyway. I still love the caliber

 

[wailer]

I have a G20Sf, and a G29SF both Gen 3. The 10mm is snappy like a hot 40 but for normal to large people it's ok.

I shoot Underwood Ammo 180g at 1300 FPS for both range and SD

I have a Dan Wesson RZ 10 sitting at my FFL awaiting it's submission to the Handgun Roster Board (don't ask you don't have this BS where you live.)

I also have 4 S&W Gen 3 10 mm's. 1076 (Old FBI pistol model)1026, 1006, 1066

Yes I love 10mm pistols.

ETA-getting back on target is more difficult than a 9mm or a 45. For me anyway. I still love the caliber

Just bought a G20 and acquired some Underwood 180g, would that be considered a hot full powered 10mm ammo that i've heard about, or would it be 200g and up. Note I have not shot it yet just wondering as many other brands are considered high power 40's.

 

[bdiddle]

No reason to go to the 21.

I love my 21, but I am under no illusions that it will be a better man stopper than quality 9mm +p ammo.

If you want more juice, go 10mm

 

[Norton]

Can you get the G21sf upper half to go on the G20sf like you can with the regular G20 with the G21 upper?

Why limit yourself to one caliber when you can have both?

 

[swinokur]

yep. same slide dimensions.. I had a G30 and I put my G29SF slide on it just for giggles. worked fine. Long as the frame is the same the slides can be swapped.

G29=G30
G20=G21

The SF doesn't keep you from putting a non SF on it. I did. The SF model is just 3mm shorter front to back in the grip. No change with the slides.

 

[Rocky BearDog]

I have a gen 3 G20 SF and it is awesome to shoot. The polymer absorbs a good portion of the recoil with hot loads such as Double Tap - or my own scorching hand loads. Regarding stopping power, I made the decision to go 10mm when I was in Washington state 2 years ago and read an article about a guy who had to defend his dogs from a cow moose (with a calf) that was stomping them. Dropped her with his EDC G20. That's a lot of raging animal to overtake. By the way - proper authorities were notified and the action deemed justified.

 

[swinokur]

Just bought a G20 and acquired some Underwood 180g, would that be considered a hot full powered 10mm ammo that i've heard about, or would it be 200g and up. Note I have not shot it yet just wondering as many other brands are considered high power 40's.

The only manufacturers I am aware of that make "hot" loads are Underwood and Buffalo Bore. Double Tap does but there are a lot of stories on the Internet that the ammo doesn't meet advertised velocities. I have no first hand knowledge. I have both BB and DT but have never shot it.

Winchester 175g Silvertips are a good SD load too. Not quite as hot but they will get the job done.

I use the Underwood 180g GD or XTP's. The 200g are also good. I think 180g is a good balance between penetration and velocity.

Just my .02

 

[randyho]

Can you get the G21sf upper half to go on the G20sf like you can with the regular G20 with the G21 upper?

Why limit yourself to one caliber when you can have both?

Yup, mine work just fine

 

[jimbobborg]

Of course, you can always get a 1911 in 10mm. 220gr LFP at a little over 1100 fps makes a pretty bold statement. Recoil is brisk but you only need one shot per target

 

[alucard0822]

10mm can easily top 45ACP with hot loads, 38,500PSI vs 21,000PSI SAAMI spec would be why. the .40 cal bullets also have better sectional density(basically longer for a given weight), so they tend to penetrate better even with similar weight and velocity to a 45 load with a lot broader range of power. In most cases 10mm in a G20/G29 is actually MORE comfortable than 40 from G22/G23, the greater case capacity gives the same or better velocity with lower, more comfortable pressures, heavier slide and wider grip slows and softens recoil too making a G20's recoil with moderate 500ish FPE 10mm as soft and easy to shoot as 300ish FPE 9mm from the G17.

Of course 45ACP is not the only 45 that the G21/G30 can handle(too much for a G30S or G36), step up to 45 super(dimentionally identical to 45ACP) with a heavier spring, and a barrel with tighter chamber if you intend on shooting top velocity loads or plan to reload the brass. The pistol has slide mass and strength built for 10mm, so 28,000PSI 45 super isn't a problem, the brass is reinforced to handle marginal case support, but the fat GLOCK chamber will pretty much destroy it. Super gives you 600+FPE power around the level of full power 10mm, but at a lower pressure, and handles really heavy bullets better than 10mm. Add a custom barrel and comp though and you can top 1,000FPE from a G21 with 460Rowland or 40super(necked down 45super) leaving 10 or 45super in the dust, both use cases with a 45ACP sized head, so they only work on a 21, not a 20. For that matter there are even 10mm conversion barrels for the 21/30 and can be acceptably reliable with 10mm mags despite the different breech face and extractor specs, although not reliable enough that I would stake my life on a caliber conversion.

Thing is, full power 10 or 45 super can be tough to shoot fast, especially with plentiful noise and recoil, for hunting they might be worth it, but for self defense the general consensus is to use lighter loads < 600FPE, although even watered down to a "wimpy" 500FPE 10mm or 45+p, there is still plenty of power capable of good performance.

 

[Armadillofz1]

10mm can easily top 45ACP with hot loads, 38,500PSI vs 21,000PSI SAAMI spec would be why. the .40 cal bullets also have better sectional density(basically longer for a given weight), so they tend to penetrate better even with similar weight and velocity to a 45 load with a lot broader range of power. In most cases 10mm in a G20/G29 is actually MORE comfortable than 40 from G22/G23, the greater case capacity gives the same or better velocity with lower, more comfortable pressures, heavier slide and wider grip slows and softens recoil too making a G20's recoil with moderate 500ish FPE 10mm as soft and easy to shoot as 300ish FPE 9mm from the G17.

Of course 45ACP is not the only 45 that the G21/G30 can handle(too much for a G30S or G36), step up to 45 super(dimentionally identical to 45ACP) with a heavier spring, and a barrel with tighter chamber if you intend on shooting top velocity loads or plan to reload the brass. The pistol has slide mass and strength built for 10mm, so 28,000PSI 45 super isn't a problem, the brass is reinforced to handle marginal case support, but the fat GLOCK chamber will pretty much destroy it. Super gives you 600+FPE power around the level of full power 10mm, but at a lower pressure, and handles really heavy bullets better than 10mm. Add a custom barrel and comp though and you can top 1,000FPE from a G21 with 460Rowland or 40super(necked down 45super) leaving 10 or 45super in the dust, both use cases with a 45ACP sized head, so they only work on a 21, not a 20. For that matter there are even 10mm conversion barrels for the 21/30 and can be acceptably reliable with 10mm mags despite the different breech face and extractor specs, although not reliable enough that I would stake my life on a caliber conversion.

Thing is, full power 10 or 45 super can be tough to shoot fast, especially with plentiful noise and recoil, for hunting they might be worth it, but for self defense the general consensus is to use lighter loads < 600FPE, although even watered down to a "wimpy" 500FPE 10mm or 45+p, there is still plenty of power capable of good performance.

Great info. thanks. I may be over thinking things. For some reason (irrational or not) I've started to feel that the G19 with Black Talons isn't the best that i could bring to the table should, God forbid, that need arise.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I LIKE 10mm ( I'm behind Swinkour and jelous, but I like 10mm on purpose ). 10mm essentially has three power levels :

1. "wimpy" factory loads are equiv to full power .40s&w

2. "Mainstream" full power loads ( ie Silvertip-ish. ie 175-180gr in 1200's ) plenty potent, close to Silvertips in .41mag . Near the upper end of power vs control in rapid firing,

3. Hot handloads and hot loads from specality mfgs - WOW !

All that said, if you have to ask , you will be happier with .4acp. Plenty of power for any threats that self propel on two legs , a plethora of quality loads, commonly available, at better prices. ( If you are already a 10mm or .45Super person, you would know it and already have one, or have plans for one.)


And to just throw in there : despite having "Subcompact" in their designation, the G29/30 are actually very close in size to a G19 . I best of both worlds plan is to buy a G20 length bbl to drop into G29sf. Compact grip length when desired, full velocity potential with full powered 10mm ammo.
And just to say it , a G19 with loads of my preference (not debating that here) is highly effective for two legged felons.