Full on rush for LEO and Gov forces to re-adopt the 9mm

[Baccusboy]

I would like to know what the predominate 9mm hollowpoints were back in 1986?

That would give me a better idea of what the problem was.

 

[jimbobborg]

I would like to know what the predominate 9mm hollowpoints were back in 1986?

That would give me a better idea of what the problem was.

The problem was the 9mm and .38 Special were unable to effectively penetrate windshield glass during a shootout in Miami, FL. The FBI went with the 10mm as the mass of the bullet made penetration of windshield glass possible and still worked when hitting a suspect after going through that and other barriers. Due to the requirement of having women and other smaller folks who weren't capable shooters as agents, the S&W 1076 was found too big for them to handle and the full power 10mm was too much for them to fire well, hence the 10mm Lite was created. This lead to the 40 S&W to be created, and the rest is history.

 

[traveller]

I would like to know what the predominate 9mm hollowpoints were back in 1986?

'Silvertips'

 

[traveller]

Not to mention ammo being hard to find. Bollocks to that.

The only reason ammo is hard to find is because there is no competition for goverment contracts. If the FBI went with 5-7, you could find the stuff at Walmart.

 

[RoboRay]

I've never had any trouble finding 5.7, though I do not shop at Wally World. Even during the ammo shortage, it was readily available. :p

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

I've never had any trouble finding 5.7, though I do not shop at Wally World. Even during the ammo shortage, it was readily available. :p

Yeah but what was the price?

 

[ras_oscar]

During the shortage what I saw most available was .40. Are most LEO departments using .40 at present?

 

[ProShooter]

Let everyone switch to 9mm. I'll stick with my .40 for now, and ammo will be dirt cheap while everyone kills each other for 9mm. I've shot and carried both, and I'll maintain status quo.

 

[Minuteman]

I know we've all discussed this many times, it's one of the most popular debates among firearms enthusiast - choice of caliber in a defensive handgun. 9mm vs. .40

The FBI switching to 9mm is no trivial matter; many, many police departments will switch to 9mm, many already have and are in the process now; just because the FBI has already done the research and is switching.

From what I'm hearing and reading, the #1 reason they are switching to 9mm - less recoil. Yep, their officers shoot better and have more confidence when they experience less recoil. They also liked the way it performed shooting through cars. Modern ammo has a lot to do with the improved performance of the 9mm cartridge. I like that my follow up shots with a 9mm are considerably faster and more accurate.

Let's also not forget that 9mm is much cheaper and is the NATO standard and preferred caliber of the militaries that are most likely to oppose us - Russia, China, etc. 9mm is king, and has been for some time. I predict .40 will not disappear as far as 10mm did, but just like not many police departments still carry .357/.38SPL, so will it be rare to find a department in the future with .40.

Look for lots and lots of good deals on .40 police trade-ins and cheap ammo soon, until the manufacturing process switches and .40 becomes as hard to find as 10mm on the shelves.

Interesting times.

 

[Blaster229]

Just hit what you are shooting at. You may have to hit it more than once, regardless of caliber.

 

[Mr Bear]

I shoot 9mm & .40 S&W regularly each month. Have no trouble with accuracy from either, but then again, I train/shoot often.

When at the range I often encounter lots of LEO's & "security" officers who are the worst shots, have poor muzzle awareness, & appear to know little about range safety/safe firearm handling. While shooting at paper targets to perfect one's skills & fundamentals is good practice, it can never duplicate shooting while under stress.

I wish our "protectors" had more ranges available to them that enabled them to practice stress shooting. One such a place is PSTA range in Upper Marlboro, Md. The range is only available to LE & "security" types, not the public.

 

[Blaster229]

I shoot 9mm & .40 S&W regularly each month. Have no trouble with accuracy from either, but then again, I train/shoot often.

When at the range I often encounter lots of LEO's & "security" officers who are the worst shots, have poor muzzle awareness, & appear to know little about range safety/safe firearm handling. While shooting at paper targets to perfect one's skills & fundamentals is good practice, it can never duplicate shooting while under stress.

A person can duplicate a huge issue of shooting under stress/while moving at an indoor range. Slapping the trigger.

Screw slow, aimed fire while shooting indoor. The one thing about self defense shooting is that we have to learn all the basics of good group shooting and then realize it all goes to crap when we start shooting "for real".

Try intentionally "slapping" the trigger in between shots. Simply take your finger off the trigger, but not out of the trigger guard and tap it back on the trigger without placing it perfectly then fire. Simulating a "squeeze" of your whole grip while shooting as quick as the range will allow. This will give you a good idea on how to differently control your pistol and see an idea of how bad or not as bad you think it would be not having the perfect smooth trigger and front sight.

 

[kenpo333]

they should all switch to 5.7x28 and call it a day, increased capacity? check! terminal performance... hells yeah!...

i would agree with 9mm... if this is the case the cost of JHP's is going to go up in the short term, and eventually once Gov supply is met the cost will come back down.

More capacity is definitely a big one. when i switch between my md legal boy mags to the proper 17 rounds mags, im always wondering where my ammo went when my handguns slide is locked back.

i guess its time to find a deal and pick up 1000 or so jhp's

so, what hallow points do you all use in 9mm? i picked up some of the hornady Critical defense rounds, ran 50 through my handgun (G17) with no problems, so thats what i have loaded up, and will continue to us, however i would try others.

I like your opinion on the 5.7, one of my favorite but they have not been able to produce a version with less that a 5 inch barrel which is somewhat hard to hide on smaller humans.

 

[Bullfrog]

... and .40 becomes as hard to find as 10mm on the shelves.

I doubt that. Very few LE agencies use .45 nowadays, and .45 is an order of magnitude more common than 10mm.

I don't doubt that .40 would become less common, but it is likely it will become more like the availability of .45 & .38 special... that is to say, less market share than 9mm but still commonly available.

 

[RoboRay]

Yeah but what was the price?

Comparable to XM193 during the shortage. About 25% higher than it now.

I'm really not sure why some people think 5.7 is crazy-expensive. Actual prices aren't hard to check.

 

[556ready]

The local PD I'm with currently shoots .40 as a whole. They have recently given troubled shooters the option and say it will soon be an option for anyone to switch to 9mm. I think it's odd they are going to let some carry .40 and some 9mm but I don't get paid to make those decisions.

 

[teratos]

Just hit what you are shooting at. You may have to hit it more than once, regardless of caliber.

This.

I had a .40 once, but prefer 9mm. Good capacity, I shoot it well. With good ammo, 1 shot stops are within just a few percentage points of .40 and .45. If I ever have to use my side-arm in a confrontation, I doubt you will know whether it is a 1 shot stop. What incapacitates a BG is overwhelming the central nervous system. 3-4 shots to center mass in quick succession should do the trick....

 

[Name Taken]

The local PD I'm with currently shoots .40 as a whole. They have recently given troubled shooters the option and say it will soon be an option for anyone to switch to 9mm. I think it's odd they are going to let some carry .40 and some 9mm but I don't get paid to make those decisions.

Why is it odd?

 

[Respen33]

At the end of all of this, its about necessary force and survivability with a touch of cost effectiveness. 9mm is sufficient to stop most humans and animals the average Leo would need to engage with a sidearm. This isn't the military where they are fighting padded or armored combatants. 9mm is also cheaper to reload and the size of the magazine promotes more rounds for suppressing fire.



Personally my wife uses a .45 xD (was my choice) and I use an h&k usp .40 home defense. I have enough experience to know how to control my shot grid into center mass if needed and my wife hits where it matters every time on paper.



If you really need to engage me, I have a super Blackhawk .44 mag that shoots more fire then a jet rocket. ;-)

 

[Blaster229]

The local PD I'm with currently shoots .40 as a whole. They have recently given troubled shooters the option and say it will soon be an option for anyone to switch to 9mm. I think it's odd they are going to let some carry .40 and some 9mm but I don't get paid to make those decisions.

Crazy. For 13 years I have seen "troubled" shooters be "troubled" but qualify with their issued P229 in SIG .357 shooting a pretty hard qual 4 times a year.
Teeny tiny females included.
A change in caliber should not be a reason why someone should pass their qual.