First Gun thoughts.....

[NarlocB]

Well I'm looking to get my first handgun of my own. I have several rifles and a shotgun i use for hunting, etc. But no handguns of my own.

I was visiting the Gun Center in Frederick, though going to make a trip out to see Lou in Mt. Airy soon as well, however I have narrowed down my choices.

The wife is going to buy her own, but has never shot a handgun before so she wants to wait to shoot mine at the range before making up her own mind.

So, without further babbling....my choices in no particular order and from the ones I got to hold or see while at the Gun Center.

Glock 26 (this one felt good in my hand)
Sig P938
S&W Shield
Ruger SR9c (doesn't look like the Gun Center carried these)

Sig P238 (wasn't in stock)
S&W Bodyguard (this one felt good in my hand)
Bersa Thunder (this too felt good in my hand)

Taurus Judge (this one massive feeling gun and like the idea of having 410 for in home shooting)

Now I'm keeping my choices to the smaller guns because my wife is on the short side and do not want to see her shooting a glock 17. And if I'm away on business I figure the first handgun in the house should be one we can both shoot. Then she can buy what she likes and I can purchase what I really want.

Now my pro's/con's.

The glock 26, well its a Glock and not only can I use the glock 17/19 mags, I can also get the .22 conversion kit for plinking/practice. Issue is finding them, the one at Gun Center was $711....probably gone by now.

The Sig's P938 and P238, again hard to find, but I like they model after the 1911 usage. I really really want my own 1911 but I do not see them being banned anytime soon.

S&W Bodyguard felt really good in my hand even though is so damn small. I'm assuming the Shield would feel just as good.

Taurus, well lets just say it looks scary. The way my house is setup, if i had to come out of my bedroom to deal with intruders, if I am not careful, my shots could end up in my children's bedrooms. My though is bird shot even down the hallway towards an intruder would like to get them high tailing it out of the house (thinking wife shooting in a panic).

Bersa Thunder, cheap but yet seems to be very reliable from many reviews I've read.

9mm ammo is cheaper then .380 but as hard to find for either caliburs.

Thoughts??

I'm half tempted to just buy the glock 26 and worry about everything else later....though the price is hard to stomach for a gen 4. I know I could order online, but would prefer to help my local gun shops if I can. Maybe Lou will talk me into something completely different when I get out to Mt. Airy.

 

[Name Taken]

My thoughts are you probably shouldn't be looking at CCW handguns unless you plan on CCW'ing.

The sub compacts have short sight radius and can have more felt recoil then the medium sized guns.

I would personally move up to looking at Glock 19/23, Sig 229, S&W MP Full size, Beretta 92 etc.

I think they are going to be far more enjoyable and easier to handle for a first time shooter then sub compacts.

If there is an indoor range close to you guys many allow for rentals. Might want to take a few hours and fire some of the ones you are interested in to compare.

 

[Brad]

I would avoid getting the judge if it will be your only gun. They are awesome and alot of fun but really not that practicle if you want something to shoot at the range as well. My first gun was a taurus raging bull .454 casull which is similar to the judge and taking it to the range just got expensive, even if i was shooting the .45 colt instead of .454.

With that said, I eventually settled on getting something in 9mm to shoot at the range. I went to a few different gun stores and through several different friends collections and held just about every mainstream handgun I could find. (glock,SA,S&W,CZ, etc...) After shooting several I settled on the CZ75B. It just felt good in my hand and i could not find a bad review anwhere.

You cant go wronge with anything that you named but I would put off the judge for a later purcahse.

 

[NickZac]

The below is all just MY personal opinion…

Of the ones you mentioned, I've shot about half. When trying to shoot them with any sort of speed you would want with defensive shooting, I was all over the place...think 15-ish inch+ group non-concentrated versus a 5 inch concentrated group at around 20 feet at medium rate of fire. When trying to shoot them with point-and-shoot using a front sight only, I wasn't pleased and would not feel confident using one for defense (the one exception is a Sig 239 with a double action only trigger and 3-dot sights, which I shot surprisingly well). In a real situation, the difference would be tremendous. Now with that said, I don't own anything that small nor did they have the sights I was used to, so it isn't a completely fair comparison. Still, from my personal experience, what I have seen, and what I've read, these guns are harder to shoot than others. They are smaller and many people flock to them because of this...partly because it is often assumed big gun=more recoil. They are good for concealment and some people shoot them very well...but if you arent going to be carrying, going up in size has some value. When I carried, I went for the one-size-up (Glock 19/23/32/38).

A full framed firearm often-usually has a better recoil reduction device, more heft to offset recoil, a better grip for you to better manage recoil, better triggers, more trigger options, better sights, and a greater sight radius. The better sight radius often means sighting your target faster, faster recovery from the shot and then faster follow-up.

The other reason for not going subcompact is because of the shorter barrel. A bullet will NOT be propelled to the same velocity in a subcompact versus a full size firearm meaning the amount of generated energy is less. With expanding JHP ammunition, this can be the difference in the JHP expanding as designed or failing to expand. That's a major, major issue given the loss in the ability of the round to stop an assailant, and the higher probability of over-penetration or additional penetration of unintended mediums (walls). There are a few rounds made for short barreled firearms but, whenever possible, the longer barrel is desirable. In super small barrels such as the 2 inch revolvers, the loss of velocity is tremendous to the point that the bullet neither expands nor penetrates to what is considered to be good-to-ideal-to-required (depending upon who you ask).

In terms of caliber selection, don't get too hung up. 9mm is fine. There's nothing wrong with .357 SIG, .40, or .45...however, each means progressively lower magazine capacity, higher costs, and more recoil. They carry more energy but there is no 'lack of stopping power' of the 9mm whatsoever. What matters most is that the correct loadings are used and the shooter is a competent operator. If this is your first, to me it makes sense to go with 9mm or .38/.357. I would avoid .380 because it’s not making as much energy as the 9mm, (usually) is not as easy to find, does not have nearly as widely-available JHP defensive loadings, and is often as or more expensive than 9mm. With .38 SPL, it is generally agreed upon that .38 +p is ideal over .38.

Regardless of what caliber you choose, consider the sights. To me, steel night sights are a must. I like the Heinie Straight Eight Sights as well as the Trijicon, AmeriGlo, and MeproLight 3-dots. In low-light conditions, tritium night sights can be a lifesaver. I tend to prefer a larger/brighter front sight and the use of two versus 3 dots, but preferences here vary. What matters is you being able to sight a target in lower light conditions. With sights that don’t glow, this can be very difficult.

If you have a smaller hand, the 'compact' size may be better than the full frame. It's worth going to a range with a few friends to rent a few models because you really can't tell until you shoot it, and all of the brands today reflects a world where everyone has their personal favorites. To me, the 9mm standards to try are: Glock 17/19, Sig 226/229, H&K USP/USPc/P30, S&W M&P9, Springfield XD-9/XD-9c, a 5 inch and a 4 inch 1911 in 9mm, Beretta 92FS/PX-4/NEW 92, Ruger P95, and a few others that have temporarily left me. I would advise shooting a full size, a compact, and a subcompact in that order to see the differences first hand...the easiest comparison here is a Glock 17 (full), Glock 19 (compact), and Glock 26 (subcompact) given it is the exact same gun in different sizes and nearly everyone rents them.

At the same time, shoot a 4 inch Smith and Wesson 686+ and a Ruger GP100 in .38. There are many defensive advantages to a revolver as they are reliable, less prone to the jamming issues, and are generally very easy to shoot (plus the listed models can shoot .38 AND .357 Magnum).

Shooting all of the above, say 15 rounds through each, would be around $100 at most ranges and its worth every penny given it is the ONLY way to know what is best for YOU. And I promise you that you will find one that you know is “the one”…and you’ll never have to wonder if you got what is best for you. We can tell you all day long, but it's very individualistic.

My 4¢.

 

[Bikebreath]

I often hear, "My wife has small hands, so we want her to have a small gun". Small guns have more felt recoil. Grip size is important and some manufatures have grips adjustments. Those that come to mind are; Glock gen4, XDm and S&W M&P. I would advise a full size gun and one that's all metal is even better. It's heavier, but it will reduce felt recoil.

You could use a trip to a gun shop that has a range, so you can try guns first hand and help you decide. Three that come to mind that might have what you want; Maryland Small Arms; Continental Arms and On Target.

I just started into this hobby in 2009 and I remember recoil being very noticeable. It seems less so now that I've gotten used to it.

 

[alpine44]

I side with the previous posters.

Do NOT buy a smallish or extravagant gun until you have shot a couple thousand rounds with a main-stream full size or compact gun and have hit what you wanted to hit.

Smart choices are:

Full size Glocks (G17, G22, etc.)
Compact Size Glocks(G19, G23, etc.)
Full size Sigs P229, P220
"Compact" size Sigs like P229
S&W M&P and similar offerings from few others companies

+1 also for "try before you buy"

 

[bratgirllcp]

yes previous posts on here are very good. hubby has a mossberg 500 and i have a taurus 605 (.38 & .357) revolver. I really like the feel of the taurus

 

[Gambler]

I'd honestly start with something like an M&P9 full size. They have interchangeable grips for different hand sizes and are about as simple and ergonomic as you can get. But if I were going to purchase CCW gun from your choices, it would be the Shield hands down.

 

[KIBarrister]

1911. The Judge is cool, but get that 1911 out of the way

 

[Threeband]

My rambling thoughts on small hands and pistol fit:

I'll bet I have smaller hands than your wife. It is a problem.

The smaller Glock 26 has the exact same grip size, as far as trigger reach, as the larger Glock 19 and 17. The only difference is length.

A small gun is harder and less pleasant to shoot than a larger gun.

I prefer the S&W M&P to the Glocks. Just a much better grip. The Springfield XD feels good to me when I've handled them. Haven't shot one- they have a high bore axis that can accentuate muzzle flip, but they're worth a look.

Check out the M&P, also the Walther p99 and PPQ. If I were doing it over again, I would look long and hard at the Walther PPQ.

A couple other points about smaller hands and short fingers: Double Action sucks. DA guns like the SIGs and Berettas really require looooong fingers. A 1911, especially with the short trigger, might be a better fit.

Kahrs are supposed to be better for smaller hands. You might check them out, but stay away from the really small ones.

There are a couple of goofy-looking pistols that look ideal for smaller hands, although I haven't tried them: The Steyr and the Caracal.


The problem might not be evident for someone unfamiliar with pistol shooting. She picks up that SIG, feels great, what's wrong? Here's the problem you might not notice in the shop:

When shooting a pistol, you want the barrel in line with your arm. People with smaller hands often are forced to twist the gun sideways in order to reach the trigger. Recoil twists it even more to the side, instead of straight back. That may be okay for slow, leisurely plinking, but it's a big problem for more rapid fire. It greatly slows recovery time between shots.

Not only can the trigger be hard to reach with a decent grip: the other controls can be too. I am forced to shift my grip slightly to reach both the slide stop and the mag release on my M&Ps. I rarely use the slide stop, but the mag release slows me down a bit. I have since switched my mag releases to work with my trigger finger instead of my thumb. We'll see about that. I may carve a little plastic away behind the mag release. Some people do that on Glocks. I put an extended release on my Glock, because it was an epic struggle to push that horrid little button. The older Walther PPQ has an ambidextrous mag release on the trigger guard, by the way, workable with the finger. I see the new version has a reversible mag release like my M&P, which might not be as good as the peculiar trigger guard release it replaces, as least for those with short thumbs.

 

[sfchoffman]

You will never go wrong with a SIG, I personally don't like the Glock's no matter what number. So I am not the one to give any info on them. Todays S&W's are very good, H & K's are top shelf, FN's are nice and Springfields as well. Your wife probably would do best with a 9mm, at least until she gets expierence and enjoys shooting, that said she should look at of those makes in a medium size. The weight will help her. For you it will be all what feels good (caliber) shooting. There is not that much difference in pistols.

 

[NarlocB]

My rambling thoughts on small hands and pistol fit:

I'll bet I have smaller hands than your wife. It is a problem.

The smaller Glock 26 has the exact same grip size, as far as trigger reach, as the larger Glock 19 and 17. The only difference is length.

A small gun is harder and less pleasant to shoot than a larger gun.

I prefer the S&W M&P to the Glocks. Just a much better grip. The Springfield XD feels good to me when I've handled them. Haven't shot one- they have a high bore axis that can accentuate muzzle flip, but they're worth a look.

Check out the M&P, also the Walther p99 and PPQ. If I were doing it over again, I would look long and hard at the Walther PPQ.

A couple other points about smaller hands and short fingers: Double Action sucks. DA guns like the SIGs and Berettas really require looooong fingers. A 1911, especially with the short trigger, might be a better fit.

Kahrs are supposed to be better for smaller hands. You might check them out, but stay away from the really small ones.

There are a couple of goofy-looking pistols that look ideal for smaller hands, although I haven't tried them: The Steyr and the Caracal.


The problem might not be evident for someone unfamiliar with pistol shooting. She picks up that SIG, feels great, what's wrong? Here's the problem you might not notice in the shop:

When shooting a pistol, you want the barrel in line with your arm. People with smaller hands often are forced to twist the gun sideways in order to reach the trigger. Recoil twists it even more to the side, instead of straight back. That may be okay for slow, leisurely plinking, but it's a big problem for more rapid fire. It greatly slows recovery time between shots.

Not only can the trigger be hard to reach with a decent grip: the other controls can be too. I am forced to shift my grip slightly to reach both the slide stop and the mag release on my M&Ps. I rarely use the slide stop, but the mag release slows me down a bit. I have since switched my mag releases to work with my trigger finger instead of my thumb. We'll see about that. I may carve a little plastic away behind the mag release. Some people do that on Glocks. I put an extended release on my Glock, because it was an epic struggle to push that horrid little button. The older Walther PPQ has an ambidextrous mag release on the trigger guard, by the way, workable with the finger. I see the new version has a reversible mag release like my M&P, which might not be as good as the peculiar trigger guard release it replaces, as least for those with short thumbs.

Oh I had not thought of the trigger pull on these things for her. Hmmmm guess my best bet for my first handgun would be to take her with me and see if it fits her fingers more then her hand for proper shooting.

dang it......now all my thoughts are even more confusing.

 

[RoccoRP87]

My thoughts are you probably shouldn't be looking at CCW handguns unless you plan on CCW'ing.

The sub compacts have short sight radius and can have more felt recoil then the medium sized guns.

^^^ THIS ^^^

Compacts and sub-compacts make pretty pitiful all-round guns. I'd go for something like the Glock 19 or S&W M&P midsize (I own and love the .45 caliber model)

Pistol caliber ballistics are shit. Even with the best hollow point ammo on the market you get no where near the tissue damage with a pistol that you do with a rifle. So what does that mean?

Accuracy is your friend, and the ability to get multiple shots on target in a quick fashion. Compacts and sub-compacts are difficult to achieve this with and are meant only for CCW/last ditch defense.

Besides getting a CCW permit in Maryland is about as likely as getting your wife or girlfriend to agree to a menage a trois.

 

[spfrazierjr]

Check out the Beretta PX4 series. I know they didn't catch on with a lot of people, but they really are great guns. I would probably recommend the compact. Please don't mistake that for the sub-compact. The compact is a nice size and fits fine in most hands. It comes in 9 or 40 and can take full size mags. I've personally never fired a compact, but some on Beretta forum say that it has less recoil than the full size.

 

[Biggfoot44]

9mm is fine . For an only or primary pistol avoid a subcompact . Look at Mid to Full size. Depending on brand and model there is overlap in actual size . Fondel and preferably testfire whatever you/ she can get your hands on. Proper fit of the grip in Your/ Her hand is more important than magazine capacity , even if it means going with a single stack.. SIG has a retrofit short reach trigger for the traditional P series. Kahr has short trigger reach to the point is is very bad fit for those with XL hands. Stick to their larger sized guns , and avoid the subcompacts.

And I would be remiss to not put in a plug for Revolvers. K Frame Round Butts have long been considered good for a controlable gun usable for small hands. Revolvers allow for swaping grips ( aka handles , stocks ) to get a good fit for different size hands.

 

[Threeband]

Oh I had not thought of the trigger pull on these things for her. Hmmmm guess my best bet for my first handgun would be to take her with me and see if it fits her fingers more then her hand for proper shooting.

dang it......now all my thoughts are even more confusing.

Yes, let her hold different pistols. She may not be able to get the ideal grip shown here, but some pistols are better than others.

Notice how the gun is twisted slightly in the offset grip? A person with small hands might be unable to achieve even the "offset" grip. They may be forced to twist the gun even more.

Try having her build her grip around the trigger. Have her place the pad of her finger on the trigger first, then place the grip itself in her hand. That will reveal how far the pistol needs to be offset to get good finger placement on the trigger.

She may not be able to achieve an ideal grip. Try to find a gun that at least allows a "better" grip. Then she'll just have to deal with it. Also have her drop the magazine. Does she have to shift her grip to reach the release? The reversible release on the M&P gives the option of using the index finger. The Walthers with the weird trigger guard release might work for her too. Don't worry about the slide stop.

Try the Kahrs, also try the good old 1911. Most 1911s come with long triggers that can easily be replaced with short triggers. You can also get ultrathin grips to accommodate really small hands.

1911 Long Trigger on top.
1911 -A1 Short Trigger on bottom.

Notice the double actions like the SIG and Beretta have two trigger positions, for the DA first shot and subsequent Single Action shots. A CZ 75 can be carried "cocked and locked", not even using the DA feature, but you can't do that with a SIG. She may find the Single Action, "cocked" position ideal, but have a problem with the trigger-forward Double Action position. That's why I say SIGs and other DA guns might be a bad choice for those with small hands.

 

[Terphunter]

Go full size 9mm. I have had a 44 mag for hunting for 20 years but got my first auto in October. Went with the Beretta PX4 full size in 9mm....1100 rounds later LOVE it. Not ONE ftf, fte...nothing but accurate and exacly what i wanted for home security. Add a some 17 rounds mags, a Streamlight TLR-1 and some Meprolight sights...good to go! Good luck but would definitely stay away from the smaller frame pistols. Good luck...not too much to choose from at the moment.

Here is my Beretta. I am going to get a Glock 19 4th generation before October if i can get my hands on one!

 

[MaxVO2]

9mm is fine .
And I would be remiss to not put in a plug for Revolvers. K Frame Round Butts have long been considered good for a controlable gun usable for small hands. Revolvers allow for swaping grips ( aka handles , stocks ) to get a good fit for different size hands.

+1. I have several medium sized 9mm pistols with all of the backstraps, as well as K & L framed S&W revolvers in different barrel lengths. I have had friends with smaller hands more easily achieve a better inline type grip with revolvers and be better able to reach the trigger by swapping out the stock wood grip to something smaller and rubbery like a Pachmayer, etc..

Although maybe not too practical for most people, I have had good luck in getting a new shooter with small hands to get a better "feel" of proper and strong hand grip position with a variety of handguns by using a laser targeting system like Laserlyte, etc.. with the targets before taking them to the range. They can better feel what is comfortable for their individuality and fire the laser on the end of the firearm without fear of noise, recoil, etc.. and see where the "bullet" would hit. In my experience, the revolvers as mentioned above seem to allow many smaller handed people to get a better grip initially and get an idea of proper trigger pull etc.. without the gun moving laterally during trigger pull due to short fingers, etc... Once the person has a bit better idea of how a proper grip feels with appropriate feedback (laserlyte..) it becomes much easier to move on to different pistols more easily.

The Glock 19 sized pistols do provide a nice balance for most people and can be easily customized with lighter triggers, different backstraps, rubbery grips, etc.. for not much money if smaller revolvers are not an option.

For a new shooter I would think a sub compact would have a bit too much kick even in 9 mm that could encourage bad habits (flinching, etc...)

 

[NarlocB]

Thanks guys for all the great response. Things I had never considered for my better half. Unfortunately looks like I will be screwed for now.....my darn heat pump died and looks like i will dropping about 7-8k on a replacement......so much for a nest egg and my first handgun or my first AR before oct 1st.

 

[Biggfoot44]

It's spring now. You won't need heat until after Oct ! anyway.