Firearm Inheritance

[Doctor_M]

Sorry for your loss. Prayers to you and your family.

 

[fabsroman]

Looking back at the OP's list, nothing is banned.

So he can purchase them from the Estate as mentioned, or if they go to his mother, she can transfer them to him (but since not inheritance, $10 for each 77R).

The lowers can be transfered, but the question becomes their status for the OP to build out in a now banned configuration. It seems that they were built into a banned configuration before Oct 1, but since he is not inheriting them (you can inherit banned firearms), then you would receive them only as a stripped lower.

So, to me, it seems he is screwed on the lowers to configure them into a banned firearm. He can make a pistol, HBAR, or SBR out of them.

If nothing is banned in his list, then it doesn't matter if he inherits them or receives them as a gift, because they cannot now be built into a banned configuration. Now, if they were in a banned configuration before October 1, 2013, then it really comes down to whether there is a way to get them to him via the Will.

It really is hypotheticals and speculation without seeing the Will. Hopefully, his attorney can steer him in the right direction.

 

[eruby]

SneakySh0rty, very sorry for your loss. Prayers to you and your family.

**** cancer bury them in the yard

While I am king (or at least prince) of gallows humor, I have to say this is a big bag of fail.

Take a moment or two before hitting 'Submit Reply' next time.

 

[Blaster229]

First of all, doesn't a will constitute the "estate"? Since this, other than real property, is enumerated in a will. If the firearms are not in the will, they are "not there"?
So, where would they be transferred or inherited "from"?

 

[eruby]

First of all, doesn't a will constitute the "estate"? Since this, other than real property, is enumerated in a will. If the firearms are not in the will, they are "not there"?
So, where would they be transferred or inherited "from"?

Any items not in a will will go to the estate to be disposed of by the personal representative (I did this).

I believe the OPs mom is alive so I'd think that all items (not in a will) go to her. That's how it worked for my dad who predeceased my mom.

IANAL.

 

[fabsroman]

Any items not in a will will go to the estate to be disposed of by the personal representative (I did this).

I believe the OPs mom is alive so I'd think that all items (not in a will) go to her. That's how it worked for my dad who predeceased my mom.

IANAL.

Any Will written by a competent attorney should have a residuary clause. The residuary clause disburses all the property that is not specifically covered via specific bequests. Usually, it is to a surviving spouse, children, or a charity. So, if the guns are not specifically given to somebody, they would probably be distributed through the residuary clause. I already discussed this above. Search the thread for "residuary clause".

I have never come across a Will that did not have a method to distribute all the property in the estate. I would guess that absent a residuary clause with assets still remaining in the estate, they would be distributed based upon the statute for intestate succession.

 

[eruby]

Any Will written by a competent attorney should have a residuary clause. The residuary clause disburses all the property that is not specifically covered via specific bequests. Usually, it is to a surviving spouse, children, or a charity. So, if the guns are not specifically given to somebody, they would probably be distributed through the residuary clause. I already discussed this above. Search the thread for "residuary clause".

I have never come across a Will that did not have a method to distribute all the property in the estate. I would guess that absent a residuary clause with assets still remaining in the estate, they would be distributed based upon the statute for intestate succession.

I'll not gainsay you as I know you are a lawyer.

I only speak from my own experience where any items not in the will were disposed of as I saw fit, per what I knew to be my mom's wishes.

I can say there was no written residual clause in her will. This was also a fairly small estate (in Montgomery County).

 

[outrider58]

Do they still have pay phones?

Did I just date myself?

 

[Pinecone]

If nothing is banned in his list, then it doesn't matter if he inherits them or receives them as a gift, because they cannot now be built into a banned configuration. Now, if they were in a banned configuration before October 1, 2013, then it really comes down to whether there is a way to get them to him via the Will.

It really is hypotheticals and speculation without seeing the Will. Hopefully, his attorney can steer him in the right direction.

My point was that if they had been in a banned configuration, and he inherited them, they might be able to be returned to a banned configuration.

But if he buys them from the Estate, or his mother inherits them and gives them to him, he either cannot return them to a banned configuration.

 

[fabsroman]

I'll not gainsay you as I know you are a lawyer.

I only speak from my own experience where any items not in the will were disposed of as I saw fit, per what I knew to be my mom's wishes.

I can say there was no written residual clause in her will. This was also a fairly small estate (in Montgomery County).

It really comes down to whether anybody is going to raise any concerns about it. If all the heirs are alright with the distribution, then who the heck is going to complain to make it an issue.

Thing is, I don't know how it works for the Form 77r regarding the inheritance of a firearm. Does MSP want to see a copy of the Will, or is the personal representative being there enough? What happens if the item is currently a banned item and it isn't supposed to go to the person that is supposedly inheriting it?

First estate I ever did any work on was where a mother and daughter were living together. The daughter owned the home. I went to the Registrar of Wills in PG County to open the estate and the lady helping me with the paperwork asked, "The contents of the house were all the mother's, right?" and winked her eye. Pretty much did not have to list any of the personal property in the estate. Just had to change the title of the house to the mother. Thing is, there were no regulated firearms involved.

Like anything in life. Estates can go smoothly or they can be a PITA. Depends on the heirs and/or how well the Will is drafted.

 

[Pinecone]

Yeah, if the representative of the Estate transfers the firearms to the OP, then I doubt anyone would look any further.

 

[BigDaddy]

My point was that if they had been in a banned configuration, and he inherited them, they might be able to be returned to a banned configuration.

No disrespect to the OP or the loss of his father. Like many here, I lost my father and have missed him every day.

The assumption is Dad had a legally configured AR 15(s) and sold the upper(s) prior to Oct 1st. Common sense, which has absolutely nothing to do with MD law, would say he will inherit the lower as is now, not how it might have been. It might have been an illegal SBR at some point.

If Pinecone is correct, and maybe he is, how does one prove it, short of pics of the gun on an old MDS post? More importantly to the rest of us, we inherit or leave to our heirs a banned weapon and there is no documentation of when it was purchased. Oct 1st was only last year but 5 or 10 years down the road, who is going to remember or know if Uncle George from SC bought his AR15 before 10/14?

Forgot to add, previous threads on this subject say there is no need to itemize firearms in the will. Of course to answer my own question, if they were itemized, with respect to date of purchase, that would document their legality. How Uncle George would know to do that to satisfy MD law is another issue.

 

[fabsroman]

No disrespect to the OP or the loss of his father. Like many here, I lost my father and have missed him every day.

The assumption is Dad had a legally configured AR 15(s) and sold the upper(s) prior to Oct 1st. Common sense, which has absolutely nothing to do with MD law, would say he will inherit the lower as is now, not how it might have been. It might have been an illegal SBR at some point.

If Pinecone is correct, and maybe he is, how does one prove it, short of pics of the gun on an old MDS post? More importantly to the rest of us, we inherit or leave to our heirs a banned weapon and there is no documentation of when it was purchased. Oct 1st was only last year but 5 or 10 years down the road, who is going to remember or know if Uncle George from SC bought his AR15 before 10/14?

Forgot to add, previous threads on this subject say there is no need to itemize firearms in the will. Of course to answer my own question, if they were itemized, with respect to date of purchase, that would document their legality. How Uncle George would know to do that to satisfy MD law is another issue.

If Uncle George brings his AR-15 into Maryland, he needs to register it, I believe within 90 days of establishing residence here, so he better be able to prove that it was purchased prior to October 1, 2013. Then, MSP will have a record of it.

End game, the law is there such that over time, do to poor record keeping, etc., AR-15's will be a rare beast in Maryland. I made copies of all my invoices and Forms 77r for my regulated purchases and keep a copy in the safe and a copy in the safety deposit box. I also have a spreadsheet with all the details. Others will not be as anal as me and there might be problems down the road for their heirs, such that the firearm will be sold out of state by an FFL and the proceeds put into the estate.

 

[Pinecone]

Stripped lower or non-banned configuration, purchased in MD, has a 77R on it.

If the relative purchased it new, the can track the serial number from the manufacturer down to the dealer, and the dealer records will show when it was purchased.

A secondary sale would be more difficult. Which is why some people insist on a bill of sale.

Also keep records. I have a small bound book I found somewhere that is to record firearms. And I have them all in there. I also keep a simple Access database showing each firearm with purchase date.

The burden of proof is on the State to prove it was purchased after Oct 1. So any records you have, make it more difficult for them to try to prove that.

And yes, if the relative took a stripped lower and assembled it into a non-banned configuration prior to Oct 1, then it would be best to have some documentation of that, but still hard to prove they did not do so.

I would suspect that most, if not all, cases will be for firearms obviously purchased after Oct 1 (77R of manufacture date post-Oct 1).

 

[SneakySh0rty]

If everybody is good with the guns going to you, then there should be no problem regarding the non-banned items because whoever is the beneficiary under the residuary clause, she could gift them to you. If you happen to be a partial beneficiary under the residuary clause, then you can take the handguns, might even be able to take the banned assault weapons too. Thing is, showing that you inherited them properly.

A disclaimer can also be used if the guns would flow to you via the Will should somebody disclaim. Really, these are things that need to be discussed with the attorney with the Will in front of him. A lot of speculation on my part and what ifs, but how the Will is drafted will control what your options are.

Looking back at the OP's list, nothing is banned.

So he can purchase them from the Estate as mentioned, or if they go to his mother, she can transfer them to him (but since not inheritance, $10 for each 77R).

The lowers can be transfered, but the question becomes their status for the OP to build out in a now banned configuration. It seems that they were built into a banned configuration before Oct 1, but since he is not inheriting them (you can inherit banned firearms), then you would receive them only as a stripped lower.

So, to me, it seems he is screwed on the lowers to configure them into a banned firearm. He can make a pistol, HBAR, or SBR out of them.

Found my dads copy of the will while cleaning things. Reading it over, my mother is listed as the personal representative of the estate. Also, this is in here:

I give and bequeath all of my estate and property of every nature , whether real, personal, or mixed, tangible or intangible, wheresoever situate, of which i may die seized or possessed or to which I may anywise be entitled at the time of my death to my beloved wife (my mom's name).

In the even that (mom) predeceases me or does not survive me by 30 days, I direct that my estate pass to be three beloved children (named) in equal shares.

I dont know how i can inherit if my mom is listed as both the PR and the sole heir of all his stuff.
But, what matters though is that it seems I will be able to hold onto the handguns via gift. I dont mind the small fee to keep them.

Since my main concern was addressed, Ill turn my attention to AR lowers. Since I was not named and I didnt see any residuary clause to the effect of Fabsroman's, I think those too can only be gifted/transferred by my mom and not inherited. Meaning, they lose their grandfather status. Not as ideal as I wouldve liked to keep one of them in the config my dad made it into.

 

[fabsroman]

Found my dads copy of the will while cleaning things. Reading it over, my mother is listed as the personal representative of the estate. Also, this is in here:




I dont know how i can inherit if my mom is listed as both the PR and the sole heir of all his stuff.
But, what matters though is that it seems I will be able to hold onto the handguns via gift. I dont mind the small fee to keep them.

Since my main concern was addressed, Ill turn my attention to AR lowers. Since I was not named and I didnt see any residuary clause to the effect of Fabsroman's, I think those too can only be gifted/transferred by my mom and not inherited. Meaning, they lose their grandfather status. Not as ideal as I wouldve liked to keep one of them in the config my dad made it into.

If they are not banned items, then she can gift them to you.

If the AR's are currently a banned item, then they can only be inherited. If that is the case, make sure you let your mom know that she needs to leave them to you via a specific bequest in her Will. They don't lose their grandfathered status as long as they remain in the banned configuration and are transferred by inheritance. Your mom will be inheriting them now, and you will inherit them upon her passing.

If your dad bought them in a banned configuration, or made them into what is considered a banned configuration prior to October 1, 2013, my inclination would be to leave them in that configuration and then inherit them when your mom passes. That is the only way to legally get a banned item in Maryland nowadays.

If you really want an SBR, HBAR, or AR pistol, just go out and buy one or buy another lower and build one.

FYI - there is no residuary clause because what was drafted was essentially a residuary clause. Probably no specific bequests in the Will, so everything was simply left to your mother if she survived him. If she didn't survive him, then everything was left equally to the 3 kids.

 

[SneakySh0rty]

If you really want an SBR, HBAR, or AR pistol, just go out and buy one or buy another lower and build one.

FYI - there is no residuary clause because what was drafted was essentially a residuary clause. Probably no specific bequests in the Will, so everything was simply left to your mother if she survived him. If she didn't survive him, then everything was left equally to the 3 kids.

I have ideas for my one of my next 2 AR SBRs. One is a 10.5" using a Spikes honey badger lower. Before my dad passed I showed him "dont give a shit" was engraved on it. He cracked up when he saw that. Told him im going to caliber it in 300 blackout and suppress it. He gave his nod of approval and a thumbs up. Before we knew chemotherapy and radiation failed, he was look at the 300 blackout rifle one of the IPs had for sale. He was constantly asking me when I was going to purchase a suppressor.

I am happy I had him as long as I did. Even though I am still young, he was able to build a strong foundation of what kind of man I will continue to grow up as and I am grateful for that upbringing.

Also, I didnt say there wasnt a residuary clause, just that there wasnt one present to the quality of your sample. My mom constantly said she did not want to inherit anything and wanted it to go directly to the 3 kids. It seems my dad had his own wishes. If there was a clause like yours in my dads will, i think i couldve directly inherited the firearms versus gifting or waiting for my mom to pass.

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

Your mom is letting you borrow them until that time (may we not speak of it again) right?

 

[anderson76]

Also, I didnt say there wasnt a residuary clause, just that there wasnt one present to the quality of your sample. My mom constantly said she did not want to inherit anything and wanted it to go directly to the 3 kids. It seems my dad had his own wishes. If there was a clause like yours in my dads will, i think i couldve directly inherited the firearms versus gifting or waiting for my mom to pass.

As you have already gathered, assault weapons along with the other firearms can be passed fairly simply via inheritance.

Upon a person’s death, title to his/her property passes to his/her personal representatives who then, via distributions, passes title to the legate (if the distribution is made pursuant to the terms of a will) or the heir (if the distribution is made under the laws of intestacy). This is what is commonly referred to as the devolution of title through probate, i.e. inheritance.

Upon your father’s passing, title to his property devolved to your mother, in her capacity as her capacity personal representative. (I’m assuming that you father’s will named her as personal representative). Title will stay with her until she makes a distribution.

The problem you have is that will gifts all his property to your mother. Consequently, if title devolves to her, then she inherits the firearms and not you. However, the MD Uniform Disclaimer of Property Interests Act allows person to disclaim property interests that they acquire via inheritance (among other things). If your mother and siblings disclaim their interest in the firearms, the disclaimer relates back to the date of your father’s passing and the law will treat your mother and siblings as having pre-deceased your father (with respect to the disclaimed property).

Under this scenario, title to the firearms would devolve to the personal representative and then title would further devolve as the personal representative distributes the firearms to you. State differently, you will have inherited the firearms.

 

[BigDaddy]

....However, the MD Uniform Disclaimer of Property Interests Act allows person to disclaim property interests that they acquire via inheritance (among other things). If your mother and siblings disclaim their interest in the firearms, the disclaimer relates back to the date of your father’s passing and the law will treat your mother and siblings as having pre-deceased your father (with respect to the disclaimed property).

Under this scenario, title to the firearms would devolve to the personal representative and then title would further devolve as the personal representative distributes the firearms to you. State differently, you will have inherited the firearms.

Isn't there a verbal contract made by the father? Maybe difficult to enforce if contested, but in this case the entire family is in agreement with the outcome.