Engage Armament Gen "Deux" Lowers

[huesmann]

What happens if you buy a lower and already have it in your grubby little hands, then later you decide you want an SBR?

 

[Spoon22]

I'm interested in this question as well...

What happens if you buy a lower and already have it in your grubby little hands, then later you decide you want an SBR?

 

[Klunatic]

You just need to fill out the paperwork and send it to BATF to be approved. Once approved you can SBR the lower.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf

 

[Spoon22]

So I can do this anytime after the BAN?

Thanks!

 

[Klunatic]

So I can do this anytime after the BAN?

Thanks!

I didn't say anything regarding MD law just the Fed requirement for a SBR.

 

[jkray]

What happens if you buy a lower and already have it in your grubby little hands, then later you decide you want an SBR?

Form 1 (make an NFA item as an individual) you would then have to engrave your info on the lower.

 

[SigDog]

Lower is sold, thanks.....I put $100 down on a lower in February, but in the last couple of months I've changed direction on what I want.
If anyone wants to meet me over at Engage and give me my $100, you can have my slot for my lower.
Let me know.

 

[MudPhud]

On the topic of SBR registration...

I plan to have Engage Armament register 2 of 4 of their E4 lowers as SBR's. My intention is to have the SBR lowers host 300BLK barreled uppers. Since the E4 lowers are being engraved with "Multi" for caliber then that'll work out nicely.

With that said, I have a couple of questions for the experts. Not trying to derail the topic or hijack it. I figure others may be wondering the same as me...

1. If I have NFA-registered SBR lowers already in my possession (pre-Sandy Hook) that all say 5.56mm on the ATF paperwork, does that mean that I cannot install a 300BLK 8" or 9" upper to them to test out supersonic and subsonic ammo with/without suppressors because it is a different/larger caliber? I ask because I would obviously rather test the 300BLK now as opposed to waiting 9+ months for ATF approval once the E4's arrive. What if some of my older SBR lowers have 5.56mm NATO emblazoned on them direct from the factory? Does this matter at all to the ATF?

2. Let's say it is OK to mount the 300BLK barrel to the 5.56mm SBR lower, if the Form 4 states 10.5" and the 300BLK barrel is only 8" or 9" does that mean that it cannot be attached to that particular SBR lower since it is technically shorter than what the ATF paperwork indicates? BTW, I do have an 8" UCIW 5.56mm SBR that I could use in case shortness is an issue, but it employs a shortened extension tube and unconventional buffer (R2) and spring I presume. I'd rather test out the 300BLK upper with a normal carbine extension tube, H or H2 or H3 buffer, and standard springs.

Thanks in advance!
MudPhud

 

[Klunatic]

On the topic of SBR registration...

I plan to have Engage Armament register 2 of 4 of their E4 lowers as SBR's. My intention is to have the SBR lowers host 300BLK barreled uppers. Since the E4 lowers are being engraved with "Multi" for caliber then that'll work out nicely.

With that said, I have a couple of questions for the experts. Not trying to derail the topic or hijack it. I figure others may be wondering the same as me...

1. If I have NFA-registered SBR lowers already in my possession (pre-Sandy Hook) that all say 5.56mm on the ATF paperwork, does that mean that I cannot install a 300BLK 8" or 9" upper to them to test out supersonic and subsonic ammo with/without suppressors because it is a different/larger caliber? I ask because I would obviously rather test the 300BLK now as opposed to waiting 9+ months for ATF approval once the E4's arrive. What if some of my older SBR lowers have 5.56mm NATO emblazoned on them direct from the factory? Does this matter at all to the ATF?

2. Let's say it is OK to mount the 300BLK barrel to the 5.56mm SBR lower, if the Form 4 states 10.5" and the 300BLK barrel is only 8" or 9" does that mean that it cannot be attached to that particular SBR lower since it is technically shorter than what the ATF paperwork indicates? BTW, I do have an 8" UCIW 5.56mm SBR that I could use in case shortness is an issue, but it employs a shortened extension tube and unconventional buffer (R2) and spring I presume. I'd rather test out the 300BLK upper with a normal carbine extension tube, H or H2 or H3 buffer, and standard springs.

Thanks in advance!
MudPhud

Your right this is a thread Hijack. Create a new thread under http://www.mdshooters.com/forumdisplay.php?f=105 .

That said I know if you put a 16 barrel on an SBR and get rid of the shorter upper or barrel the lower no longer falls under the purview of the ATF under NFA rules. I am not a lawyer but I think you can put a different upper on the SBR but must follow the same rules under NFA if you maintain the SBR barrel and/or upper in your possession.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

 

[md123]

I'll get this tread back on topic....

Andy- what's the latest delivery date estimate? Thanks!

 

[Tman68]

We are getting into a semi tight timeframe to have it built by oct 1st after we wait over 3 months for MSP. Should this be a concern? Not sure if I have to have it built by then but I would like to....


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[Dogabutila]

It just needs a valid purchase order. I'm not sure it needs built. You're not manufacturing the lower are you?

 

[swinokur]

As long as the dealer has the lowers on hand prior to Oct 1, you're ok. You have a valid PO in the form of your deposit on the lower IMO.

 

[Tman68]

It just needs a valid purchase order. I'm not sure it needs built. You're not manufacturing the lower are you?

Yeah I am manufacturing it you smart guy. And it's not quite as black and white as you may be putting it.


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[ThatGuy179]

Yeah I am manufacturing it you smart guy. And it's not quite as black and white as you may be putting it.


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Actually it is. You bought it prior to Oct 1. Build when u see fit. It is o. The state to prove you didn't.

 

[Tman68]

Actually it is. You bought it prior to Oct 1. Build when u see fit. It is o. The state to prove you didn't.

Thanks man for saying I am right but if I break the law and they can figure it out I am good to go!!!


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[swinokur]

If you or your FFL have physical possession of the lower before Oct 1, you're legal. With a previous PO, and your FFL having the lower before Oct 1, you can transfer the lower after Oct 1 and be legal.

IANAL

 

[peace]

If you or your FFL have physical possession of the lower before Oct 1, you're legal. With a previous PO, and your FFL having the lower before Oct 1, you can transfer the lower after Oct 1 and be legal.

IANAL

Not nessacrily. The lower in its current state isn't an assualt weapon. It is banned, so the PO would apply but since it isn't an "assault weapon" isn't it possible that you would be unable to configure it as such?

 

[swinokur]

How is it currently banned? They are REGULATED.

It's just a lower. It's not a banned item until after Oct 1, and only if you or your FFL don't possess it before Oct 1.

The FFL can list the caliber as OTHER unless you have a specific upper installed. So it could be a non regulated 300 blk, or a non regulated 308 upper like a Colt LE 901 16S. You can do this after Oct 1 if the firearm is not on the MSP AW list. Whether you can add a AW upper after Oct 1 seems a bit ambiguous to me.

And if you or your FFL possess the lower before Oct 1, perhaps you can put any upper on it you want as I read SB 281.. The lower is the firearm. You of course would do the paperwork with your FFL as I read things. I could be mistaken about making a firearm on the AW list after Oct 1. I guess MSP will decide that.

IANAL

On a side note, have you cancelled your order for the lower you don't want because you say the terms changed so I can buy it?

 

[peace]

How is it currently banned? They are REGULATED.

It's just a lower. It's not a banned item until after Oct 1, and only if you or your FFL don't possess it before Oct 1.

The FFL can list the caliber as OTHER unless you have a specific upper installed. So it could be a non regulated 300 blk, or a non regulated 308 upper like a Colt LE 901 16S. You can do this after Oct 1 if the firearm is not on the MSP AW list. Whether you can add a AW upper after Oct 1 seems a bit ambiguous to me.

And if you or your FFL possess the lower before Oct 1, perhaps you can put any upper on it you want as I read SB 281.. The lower is the firearm. You of course would do the paperwork with your FFL as I read things. I could be mistaken about making a firearm on the AW list after Oct 1. I guess MSP will decide that.

IANAL

On a side note, have you cancelled your order for the lower you don't want because you say the terms changed so I can buy it?

For the side note, if you read through my comments depending on the size of fee I may just SBR one or two less lowers then orginally intended. I understand that its regulated you didn't need to spell it out. And as for the "perhaps you can put any upper on it" right "perhaps" that is the question being asked. Did you read it another way? If that lower isn't in an "assault weapon" configuration because its "Just a lower" and after Oct 1st you cannot legally create another "assault weapon" then wouldn't you be unable to install certain features to said "lower"? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer or the MSP thats why I'm asking.