enfield help

[hockeynut]

Hey all...

I picked up two Enfields but I need some help on how to clean up the stock.
They are super duper dirty and have some dings and dents (nothing major).

After doing some research, would BLO be the best way to clean these old gals up or is there something better I could use?

Thank you for the help!

 

[aquaman]

Well since you have two rifles which in all honesty will not be the last two surplus rifles you buy I would invest in a steamer. You can get a nice one for about $65 at sears which is where I got mine. The steam will raise some dings out and melt cosmoline.

 

[tdt91]

I put mine in the dishwasher and it did a great job.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=47333&highlight=dishwasher

check this thread out. It works and no damage to the wood

 

[Winchester_guy87]

I would be careful with the one with the red and white. I would not remove the paint, from what I have read that usually means that rifle was issued to a Canadian and adds a story to the rifle. So I would not remove too much from the stocks.

 

[j8064]

BLO is not a solvent. It's a finishing oil.
To clean the surface crud I'd start with mineral spirits or denatured alcohol. Depending on how much comes off and how aggressive you want to clean/strip, work your way up to more powerful methods.

The red and white stripes on the No.1 could indicate a deactivated DP (Drill Purpose) rifle. Make sure you don't find DP stamped on the wood. If so, have it thoroughly checked out for safety before you even think of firing it - which you should do with any unknown firearm anyway.

 

[BeltBuckle]

re last 2 posts +1

for the one without red paint, FYI, I picked up one last fall very similar. I used murphy's oil soap, a soft bristled brush (nylon, gently applied) and lots of hot water. got the grime and crud off without being too harsh on the wood. a steamer is very good for lifting dents and dings. once you get it cleaned up you can oil with BLO or TrueOil (if you want an oiled look with a harder finish) or tung oil, which I prefer. Lots of options.

Mineral spirits can accelerate the process, but you can dry the wood out that way, too. works great on the metal, though.

 

[Lou45]

I would personally let them as is. Are they original? If so, cleaning and/or refinishing will only devaluate the guns in the future compared to letting them as is.

 

[mawkie]

I use either odorless mineral spirits or denatured alcohol for cutting through grime. Otherwise I leave the stock alone.
The British used BLO as a finish. I thin it with mineral spirits (3 parts BLO to one m.s.) then apply until it won't take any more. Then wipe down, wait 24 hrs and repeat daily until you get the finish you want.
As j8064 mentioned, the white and red stripes denote a DP rifle. Can't tell from your photo if your No 4 has been converted to a L59A1 and had most of the paint removed or if it's just a simple DP marked No 4. With the L59A1 it's obvious that it can't be shot. With many older DP rifles it isn't so obvious. With plenty of clean, shootable SMLEs out there I wouldn't attempt to shoot a DP marked example. I'm going to throw a few photos of a DP marked L59A1 below so you can see what we've been talking about.
Also, the Milsurps.com site has an amazing library of articles, many for the Lee Enfield. A great place to find info.
BTW, Russell at Springfield Sporters has 18-19,000 DP Enfields for sale at the price of $500,000 if anyone's interested!

 

[hockeynut]

I should of thrown in more details with my first post...

According to the owner, the No1 Mk3 is from India. It has a GRI marking on it.
The No4 Mk2 is from Pakistan. It has the marking of POF on the side
On both rifles I can not find anything that denotes DP or Drill.
If so it is a shame because the bores are in excellent condition and all numbers match.

I guess I will have to take it to a gunsmith and have them determine if it is safe to shoot.

Thank you for all the great tips!

 

[303_enfield]

Top one is a DP rifle. DO NOT FIRE IT!!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU HEAR? DO NOT FIRE IT!

Buy the rifle not the story.
Go here and learn:
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?55-The-Lee-Enfield-Forum

 

[j8064]

Listen to what 303 enfield just said. That was my initial thought when I saw the stripes.

There are a number of DP rifles circulating out there. You'll find them with varying markings and with many different things done to them in the deactivation process. SOG has/had some for sale that look very similar. Keep in mind there's some reason an armorer deemed a particular rifle needed to be decommissioned.

 

[hockeynut]

Thanks 303 and j8!

What about the bottom one? Can you guys recommend a Enfield expert/gunsmith in the area?

So besides mounting it on a wall... what else could be done with a DP?

I learned a valuable lesson, know before you buy.

 

[Chaunsey]

a DP enfield is not likely unsafe, they were decommissioned due to headspace, bore wear etc, whatever would make it unfit for proper service.

if the bore is good, the metal is not damaged, its mechanically ok and you check the headspace out then it should be no more of a risk than any other milsurp out there. get a smith to check it over if it worries you.

i wouldnt worry about devaluing it by removing paint or cleaning it up either, because as far as SMLE's go, an indian DP rifle is about as low in value as an SMLE gets, so making it nice and putting it in shooting condition will probably help the value if anything.

you can steam out dents using a clothes iron and a damp rag, just dont sit the iron in one place to long, and make sure the rag stays moist, it should at least lessen most of the dents.

if you're only looking to clean it, then clean up the surface, and afterwards, take some 0000 guage steel wool and use it to scrub in a coat or two of BLO, all you're doing is restoring the old finish that way.

if you want to refinish then i'd strip it with paint stripped, clean it up with mineral spirits, then raise the dents, then coat it with either tung oil or BLO.

either way when its done you should wax it, you dont want a real glossy looking wax though.

 

[mawkie]

Have a gunsmith check head space, bolt lug and bore condition on the No4 MKII and if it passes you're good to pull trigger on it. Odds are very good that it's OK. The British sold tooling to Pakistan and from all account they did a VG job producing a quality LE. I missed out on adding a Paki No4 to my collection so I'm jealous!
The Indian SMLE is indeed a DP rifle and a wall hanger or organ donor for other projects. It has a place in any Enfield collection, just like my L59A1, as it's a real part of history.

 

[hockeynut]

Thanks again guys for the info! Thank you for keeping me safe!

Mawkie,

How much do you figure a Mk3 Indian DP is worth? Who would you recommend to check out the Mk2?

 

[tdt91]

hey Hockey nut, I would be interested in the micrometer site on the DP rifle. I need one for my rifle to shoot more accurately.

 

[j8064]

Thanks 303 and j8!

What about the bottom one? Can you guys recommend a Enfield expert/gunsmith in the area?

So besides mounting it on a wall... what else could be done with a DP?

I learned a valuable lesson, know before you buy.

First thing to do (besides not shoot either rifle until you know they're totally safe) is don't throw in the towel and give up on your No. 1. Second is learn the basic mechanics of an Enfield rifle. The gunboards link 303 provided is a good place to start. Here's another place:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27&sid=7d7f77d5e0fd644bd879eee094d90f11

Here is another MDS thread that discusses DP's with links to additional sources and info:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=50370

As has been said, there are many reasons an Enfield was once decommissioned. Could be metal fatigue (you may not see that with the naked eye), bore condition, throat erosion etc. Head space does come into play as a reason, but remember Enfields have replaceable bolt heads of varying lengths. The armorers could compensate for excessive H/S only to a point. Again, if it's a DP, there's some reason why. And if it's truly a DP, do not trust it as you might a rearsenaled C&R Mosin.

Can't help you with a good local gunsmith in your area. Other members may have recommendations.

Your No. 4 looks restorable. I'd do your due diligence on that rifle as well.

My very old No.1 Enfields have been relegated to light cast load duty these days. I control their diet and know they won't develop indigestion at the range.

Learn and (above all) be safe.

 

[303_enfield]

Read here:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?202131-DP-rifles-OK-to-shoot

That rifle was painted to save your face! Do not SHOOT it! I would lay money the firing pin is cut also.

As for the other rifle read this one:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...-ammunition-pressures-et-al-ALL-GOES-HERE!***

As for a local smith, good luck (ha,ha,ha)
You could send it here:
http://www.bdlltd.com/

Brain can rebuild in his sleep.
I have the headspace gauges if you need them. An some bore gauges.

 

[BFMIN]

they were decommissioned due to headspace, bore wear etc, whatever would make it unfit for proper service.

In your own words "UNFIT FOR SERVICE", plus what was done to it afterward as part of the deactivation, & the handling it received in service as a NON-FIRING DRILL PURPOSES ONLY TRAINING AID will probably change that drastically for the worse.
I remember training new recruits on how to field strip our DP Enfields. When the bolts were re assembled we didn't care which bolt went in which rifle. Why should we? they were marked NEVER TO BE FIRED.

"DP" MEANS "Drill purposes ONLY".

 

[mawkie]

Thanks again guys for the info! Thank you for keeping me safe!

Mawkie,

How much do you figure a Mk3 Indian DP is worth? Who would you recommend to check out the Mk2?

Figure somewhere in the $125 range for the DP. A L59A1 would command a bit more, say $150-175.
As to older DPs, not only were they delegated to the drill pile due to wear but many times it was because the rifle was an obsolete Mark. In these instances they could very well be safe to shoot. The only way to make sure is to do a complete inspection on it beforehand.
As to inspecting the MKII I don't have a recommendation for a 'smith as I do all my own work on Enfields (I have .303 head spaces gages). If you think you're going to add more .303 pieces (Lots of Enfields, Rosses, P14s etc out there!) to the collection then you might want to consider purchasing a couple of .303 HS gages; a GO and Field gage would do. Enfields are a good place to start when learning how to measure head space and re-barrel as they have a nice 2 piece bolt w. separate head, making them easy to change head space as you only change out the bolt head.