Drive to remove MSP as POC for NICS!

[ShallNotInfringe]

The 3 days is for NICS checks that get delayed.

Wait wait wait... Do you really think the "politically correct" would ever be arguing for 2A rights? Come on.

If they could sue an FFL? Hell yes!

 

[Haides]

If they could sue an FFL? Hell yes!

but that would require them to acknowledge the 2A as a "right," which would probably make them feel all icky.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

but that would require them to acknowledge the 2A as a "right," which would probably make them feel all icky.

Ya mean kinda like the folks here did when they switched parties?

I don't think they'd go that far, but it is a "purchase" and since they tend to play "King Baby" pretty well and it might advance their cause, it wouldn't be hard to get some to sign up.

 

[Gordnfreman]

I see no need to answer in detail, ShallNotInfringe has done a fine job expressing my thinking on this.

The FFL would have no factual basis, nor the tools to determine which customer is likely to be "not disapproved" or disapproved. Look at some of the reasons for disapproval contained in the 17 databases. Once the FFL becomes selective and releases any firearm in 8 days, they better have a very good reason for the ones they don't release because at that point, they are randomly withholding people's property and may have to explain their rationale.

In my post I said that I don't blame my FFL's for not releasing to anyone.

I get that. I am just having some fun. My opinion is the FFL does not need a factual basis to defend himself as long as he is in compliance with Federal and State law. I don't remember if you are one of the guy's that has been following along in some of the other threads my saga with all this and my FFL. My FFL has confirmed with his own ears from the ATF as to what he can and can not do, and he is selectively transferring to certain customers, as are a few IP's here.

Shall Not Infringe knows the story. We have discussed some details thru pm that I did not see the need to post.

In my opinion the laws as written have given the FFL the option to randomly hold the property legally. There have been few times when I have had to file suit for business reasons and one civil case where I had to sue a deadbeat for failure to pay a legally executed promissory note. The judges went by what the law allowed and not what the reasons the defendants had for not paying and I won every suit. My experiences with the courts, my attorney and judges have contributed to my opinion.

I was not challenging your position, just asking a question. I did not intend to sound disrespectful and if you took it that way, I apologize.

I am not blaming any FFL's either, if you have read some of my posts I am on their side. I have been saying that it is their business, their butts and their livelihood that they have to worry about, and they have the right to run their business any way they see fit.

I have also stated that no one should expect their FFL to do anything they are not comfortable with period.

One thing that is for sure is that some FFl's are transferring at their discretion after 8 days and others are not. All I have been doing is posting my opinion and the actual facts as they have unfolded between me, my FFL and his communication with ATF.

 

[04RWon]

First of all, the MSP does not want to be the POC. That it's a political thing. There is stuff going on right now to have then voluntarily remove themselves! That is the first news. The second is that you will start seeing many more FFL'S starting to release without receiving the background checks completed. There is something coming to all FFL'S regarding this situation.

Pm sent

 

[Gbh]

I get that. I am just having some fun. My opinion is the FFL does not need a factual basis to defend himself as long as he is in compliance with Federal and State law. I don't remember if you are one of the guy's that has been following along in some of the other threads my saga with all this and my FFL. My FFL has confirmed with his own ears from the ATF as to what he can and can not do, and he is selectively transferring to certain customers, as are a few IP's here.

Shall Not Infringe knows the story. We have discussed some details thru pm that I did not see the need to post.

In my opinion the laws as written have given the FFL the option to randomly hold the property legally. There have been few times when I have had to file suit for business reasons and one civil case where I had to sue a deadbeat for failure to pay a legally executed promissory note. The judges went by what the law allowed and not what the reasons the defendants had for not paying and I won every suit. My experiences with the courts, my attorney and judges have contributed to my opinion.

I was not challenging your position, just asking a question. I did not intend to sound disrespectful and if you took it that way, I apologize.

I am not blaming any FFL's either, if you have read some of my posts I am on their side. I have been saying that it is their business, their butts and their livelihood that they have to worry about, and they have the right to run their business any way they see fit.

I have also stated that no one should expect their FFL to do anything they are not comfortable with period.

One thing that is for sure is that some FFl's are transferring at their discretion after 8 days and others are not. All I have been doing is posting my opinion and the actual facts as they have unfolded between me, my FFL and his communication with ATF.

No offense take, it did not come off as disrespectful at all. We are sharing experiences and opinions. All good.

Like I said, ShallNotInfringe responded almost exactly as I would have. So, at least I'm not alone in my thinking

I don't know about all that, but I believe there are laws that define what discrimination is and isn't. Would it be worth the retainer and legal fees to try and sue a FFL to get your gun?

Judge: Mr FFL, why did you transfer to MR. A and not transfer to MR. B?

FFL: Your Honor, the law, as you have read, say's I may transfer but does not require me to. Based on my 20 years experience of selling firearms I was uncomfortable with transferring to MR B until I received the NICS # and the ND from the MSP. I am in compliance with all state and federal law which gives me the right and the responsibility to decide when and to whom to transfer a given firearm.

Judge: Thank You Mr FFL, case dismissed.

You left out the part where the FFL and their attorney ride out of the courtroom on their unicorns.

Just having fun. But seriously, If the FFL IS IN COURT defending his actions, that goes to my statement of the FFL having to be concerned with customer #2 and his attorney. It ccosts time and money.

 

[Gordnfreman]

No offense take, it did not come off as disrespectful at all. We are sharing experiences and opinions. All good.

Like I said, ShallNotInfringe responded almost exactly as I would have. So, at least I'm not alone in my thinking



You left out the part where the FFL and their attorney ride out of the courtroom on their unicorns.

Just having fun. But seriously, If the FFL IS IN COURT defending his actions, that goes to my statement of the FFL having to be concerned with customer #2 and his attorney. It ccosts time and money.

Would it not cost more for the purchaser than the price of the firearm? It would probably cost $1k+ for the lawyer to research case law to see if it is even winnable (is that a word)?

 

[Gbh]

Would it not cost more for the purchaser than the price of the firearm? It would probably cost $1k+ for the lawyer to research case law to see if it is even winnable (is that a word)?

(stepping carefully here........) some customers ARE attorneys. I once saw an attorney on a personal mission to to make a jewelery store owner go through hell over a dispute he had with the store. He did a reasonably good job and I'm sure it cost the store owner more $ than the attorney/customer.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

(stepping carefully here........) some customers ARE attorneys. I once saw an attorney on a mission to to make a jewelery store owner go through hell over a dispute he had with the store. He did a reasonably good job.

I believe Vinnie DeMarco is an attorney. Just sayin'

He'd have a field day with this.

 

[mxrider]

Who is the point person on this, and what do you want us to do? I am not waiting on a regulated firearm but many ffls suspending transfers may effect someone's collecting ability.

I don't know if I am the point person, but I can be.

Right at this second, we all just need to hold tight (a week or so)

 

[mxrider]

Where have you heard that MSP is trying to rid themselves of the NICS check responsibility?

The MSP doesnt have a say in the matter, but they are reaching out to the state to have it taken away.

This is coming from a very reliable source that I prefer to not name at this point.

 

[Mr H]

I don't know if I am the point person, but I can be.

Right at this second, we all just need to hold tight (a week or so)

This is the advice I'm giving as well.

We have plenty of qualified (and well-placed) people being impatient on our behalf, and they know where all the snares are placed.

 

[Woodnickel]

I don't know if I am the point person, but I can be.

Right at this second, we all just need to hold tight (a week or so)

It's gonna be a loooong week!

 

[04RWon]

The MSP doesnt have a say in the matter, but they are reaching out to the state to have it taken away.

This is coming from a very reliable source that I prefer to not name at this point.

This is the advice I'm giving as well.

We have plenty of qualified (and well-placed) people being impatient on our behalf, and they know where all the snares are placed.

These 2 are on the ball

 

[L0gic]

Right at this second, we all just need to hold tight (a week or so)

This is the advice I'm giving as well.

We have plenty of qualified (and well-placed) people being impatient on our behalf, and they know where all the snares are placed.

I've been waiting for my first app since 2/14 and most recently 4/1 for all my stuff. I can wait another damn week if it means come this time next week I can bring home every damn thing at once. I've been entertaining myself with a handful of "unregulated" purchases in the mean time so between NICS approval and DC approval, I know there is no reason to hit a not approved (nor should there be).

 

[mxrider]

As I dig further and further, the more bits of info I am able to gather that is indicating that things are progressing behind the scenes. Since nothing is confirmed, I am holding my tongue for now but rest assured, things are moving along more than we all know.

 

[Trigger Time]

The problem is that the Md FFL's can legally release a regulated firearm after the mandatory 7 day waiting period, but the MARYLAND LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS ASSOCIATION INC. has agreed to the MSP request to not release them until they receive an OK from the MSP.
I'm sure you can guess what will happen to any dealer that does not abide.

 

[04RWon]

The problem is that the Md FFL's can legally release a regulated firearm after the mandatory 7 day waiting period, but the MARYLAND LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS ASSOCIATION INC. has agreed to the MSP request to not release them until they receive an OK from the MSP.
I'm sure you can guess what will happen to any dealer that does not abide.

Whats that? Well then MSP needs to get their ppl straight bc even their own are saying ffl's can release. See my emails from Thomas Williams.

 

[Trigger Time]

Whats that? Well then MSP needs to get their ppl straight bc even their own are saying ffl's can release. See my emails from Thomas Williams.

The law as it is written is not that hard to understand. It is the unwritten law that dealers and the MARYLAND LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS ASSOCIATION INC. are abiding by that is violating our civil rights.

 

[04RWon]

The law as it is written is not that hard to understand. It is the unwritten law that dealers and the MARYLAND LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS ASSOCIATION INC. are abiding by that is violating our civil rights.

Whats an unwritten law, from a legal perspective.

All that is, is fear. Fear isnt law.