DOJ Makes It Easier For Legal ‘Aliens’ To Get Guns

[ezliving]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/us/atf-eases-rules-on-gun-sales-to-noncitizens.html

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...es_it_easier_for_legal_aliens_to_get_guns.php

ATF Letter: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2011/12/122211-atf-open-letter-state-of-residence.pdf

 

[Ab_Normal]

Shouldn't the title be "DOJ makes it easier for legal aliens to get guns than legal resident citizens"?

 

[boule]

Shouldn't the title be "DOJ makes it easier for legal aliens to get guns than legal resident citizens"?

I wish....

 

[lasher9999]

Shouldn't the title be "DOJ makes it easier for legal aliens to get guns than legal resident citizens"?

Nope. They are making the rules the same for both citizens and permanent resident aliens.

 

[Recoil45]

Seems like a good thing to me.

 

[smokey]

Good. "inalienable" seems pretty clear to me as something that applies to everyone as a natural right. legal immigrant aliens, non-immigrant aliens and citizens all have a right to self defense.

 

[P-12 Norm]

Seems like a good thing to me.

I have to agree. I think as those who come here legally, they deserve the ability to protect themselves as well.

 

[Ab_Normal]

Nope. They are making the rules the same for both citizens and permanent resident aliens.

No they are not. Now legal immigrants will be able to purchase ALL firearms in any state while citizens are limited to purchasing only long guns in most states.

The optimist in me would like to believe that this will eventually carry over to citizens but the pessimist in me wonders why it didn't start with citizens first.

 

[lasher9999]

No they are not. Now legal immigrants will be able to purchase ALL firearms in any state while citizens are limited to purchasing only long guns in most states.

The optimist in me would like to believe that this will eventually carry over to citizens but the pessimist in me wonders why it didn't start with citizens first.

You are simply wrong. Did you read the ATF letter? It states: Once the regulations have been revised, both U.S. citizens and aliens legally present in the U.S. will be subject to the same requirements for State residency and proof of residency. ATF is in the process of amending its forms to conform to the statute as well.

I bolded the pertinant section!!!

 

[Ab_Normal]

You are simply wrong. Did you read the ATF letter? It states: Once the regulations have been revised, both U.S. citizens and aliens legally present in the U.S. will be subject to the same requirements for State residency and proof of residency. ATF is in the process of amending its forms to conform to the statute as well.

I bolded the pertinant section!!!

Yes, I read the document from the agency that also determined that a shoestring was a machine gun. Yes it may say that the requirements will be the same but the practical fact is it will be more difficult for citizens since every dealer I have ever talked to uses a drivers license for proof of residency for those citizens. Do you think I'll be able to pop in Gun Bunker, Freedom Armory, Thunderstick Ent., etc. tomorrow and just say "Hi guys, I intend on residing in Pa. now sell me that handgun."?

Maybe it is a good step in the right direction maybe not. The atf doesn't have very good track record right now especially with their F+F debacle. I am extremely leary that they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. We shall see.

 

[jpk1md]

Personally I see an alterior motive

Watch for a shift in who is allowed to immigrate legally to the US and from what countries.

Wanna bet we see a wholesale shift towards middle eastern countries?

The end result will be people who may be here legally but are in no way shape or form culturally Americans with our values/morals etc......and more violent crime amongst this population group

 

[lasher9999]

Yes, I read the document from the agency that also determined that a shoestring was a machine gun. Yes it may say that the requirements will be the same but the practical fact is it will be more difficult for citizens since every dealer I have ever talked to uses a drivers license for proof of residency for those citizens. Do you think I'll be able to pop in Gun Bunker, Freedom Armory, Thunderstick Ent., etc. tomorrow and just say "Hi guys, I intend on residing in Pa. now sell me that handgun."?

Maybe it is a good step in the right direction maybe not. The atf doesn't have very good track record right now especially with their F+F debacle. I am extremely leary that they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. We shall see.

What we will see is that they will also require the legal aliens to have a drivers license as proof of their intent. Thats why it specifically says,"and proof of residency". They do now by the way, in addition to three months of utility bills.

 

[lasher9999]

As to motive, I suspect they are doing this because somebody somewhere threatened to sue them and they realized they didn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Recoil45]

There is lawsuit about something similar:

http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=382

 

[2SAM22]

I wonder what ezliving thinks about this.

 

[lasher9999]

The optimist in me would like to believe that this will eventually carry over to citizens but the pessimist in me wonders why it didn't start with citizens first.

By the way, this isn't up to the ATF. Its the GCA that forbids buying handguns out of state. All they are doing is changing their regulation to make it more consistent in application.

 

[smokey]

Yes, I read the document from the agency that also determined that a shoestring was a machine gun. Yes it may say that the requirements will be the same but the practical fact is it will be more difficult for citizens since every dealer I have ever talked to uses a drivers license for proof of residency for those citizens. Do you think I'll be able to pop in Gun Bunker, Freedom Armory, Thunderstick Ent., etc. tomorrow and just say "Hi guys, I intend on residing in Pa. now sell me that handgun."?

Maybe it is a good step in the right direction maybe not. The atf doesn't have very good track record right now especially with their F+F debacle. I am extremely leary that they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. We shall see.

You think this is something it's not. Up until now, if you were a legal immigrant trying to buy a gun, you had to provide proof of continuous residency for 90 days. This took the form of bank statements, utility bills...etc in addition to their valid govt photo id and proof of residency.

Now, they are held to the exact same standard that you are. They just have to prove residency, not that they've been there for 90 days. They still need a valid govt photo id and still need to prove residency with a valid govt issued document, such as a driver's license or car registration.

Remember, this helps LEGAL aliens obtain a firearm. They are the good ones working their butt off for a better life and coming here the right way. They deserve a means to self defense just as much as you. Like I said, inalienable right....means its a right that CANNOT be stripped from you and is endowed by your creator, not any document.

 

[yellowfin]

Still no comment from Sigourney Weaver on the matter, I see.

 

[mudskipper]

Personally I see an alterior motive

Watch for a shift in who is allowed to immigrate legally to the US and from what countries.

Wanna bet we see a wholesale shift towards middle eastern countries?

The end result will be people who may be here legally but are in no way shape or form culturally Americans with our values/morals etc......and more violent crime amongst this population group

That's a very sound theory.

Accomplishes several things at once -

increases number of 1st gen m.e. immigrants living here, and along with that comes increased domestic terror activity.

that will be used as justification for more gun laws and bans.

the increased terror activity and new gun laws to enforce will create a need for increased DHS budgets, personell and expanded jurisdiction.




Yeah, all that is plausible.

 

[lasher9999]

That's a very sound theory.

Accomplishes several things at once -

increases number of 1st gen m.e. immigrants living here, and along with that comes increased domestic terror activity.

that will be used as justification for more gun laws and bans.

the increased terror activity and new gun laws to enforce will create a need for increased DHS budgets, personell and expanded jurisdiction.




Yeah, all that is plausible.

Wow. Conspracy theory anyone? This is the silliest direction I can possibly imagine coming from a minor change of a minor regulation that does not change who can buy a gun or where they can buy it but simply reduces the administrative burden on the legal alien and gun stores.