DOES THE MD-FSA 2013 DISCRIINATE AGAINST THE POOR?

[bhdpal]

After reading the "plain English" and "non-lawyer" versions by MS forum members, and reading the MSP Licensing webpage, the cost to procure the HQL to buy a handgun in Maryland is expensive, especially for low income and poverty level citizens.

Maybe some of these MD citizens want or need to "exercise their 2A Rights and buy a used inexpensive handgun for personal, family and home protection," especially if they are living in high crime areas.

But along comes MDs FSA and the cost of exercising this right of self defense has now doubled and low income and poverty level citizens cannot afford to legally buy a cheap handgun for self protection.

Will State Government provide low income or poverty level MD [legal & illegal] residents "HQL Subsidy Stamps" towards the purchase of a handgun?

Has MD State Government appropriated taxpayer funding to subsidies handgun purchases by the poor?

Will State Government pay for fingerprinting, firearm safety training, HQL, background check fees, FFL dealer fees and provide transportation, travel expense and a healthy hot lunch to assist the poor in obtaining a handgun under the new FSA regulations? Will the State provide "gun locks" to the impoverished to use on their handguns?

Does MDs FSA violate the president's agenda to "spread the wealth?"

If the MD State Government does not subsidies the low income, poverty level citizens, to comply with the FSA, is this a case of DISCRIMINATION? I wonder???

 

[Benanov]

After reading the "plain English" and "non-lawyer" versions by MS forum members, and reading the MSP Licensing webpage, the cost to procure the HQL to buy a handgun in Maryland is expensive, especially for low income and poverty level citizens.

Maybe some of these MD citizens want or need to "exercise their 2A Rights and buy a used inexpensive handgun for personal, family and home protection," especially if they are living in high crime areas.

But along comes MDs FSA and the cost of exercising this right of self defense has now doubled and low income and poverty level citizens cannot afford to legally buy a cheap handgun for self protection.

Yep, join the club.

Will State Government provide low income or poverty level MD [legal & illegal] residents "HQL Subsidy Stamps" towards the purchase of a handgun?

Has MD State Government appropriated taxpayer funding to subsidies handgun purchases by the poor?

Will State Government pay for fingerprinting, firearm safety training, HQL, background check fees, FFL dealer fees and provide transportation, travel expense and a healthy hot lunch to assist the poor in obtaining a handgun under the new FSA regulations? Will the State provide "gun locks" to the impoverished to use on their handguns?

Of course not. What you can't ban, regulate. What you can't regulate, administer. What you can't administer, charge a fee for.

Does MDs FSA violate the president's agenda to "spread the wealth?"

No, because more wealth flows into government, where it can be spread through sweetheart contracts.

If the MD State Government does not subsidies the low income, poverty level citizens, to comply with the FSA, is this a case of DISCRIMINATION? I wonder???

We brought this up a LOT at the COMAR hearing on 2013-09-23. Deaf ears.

 

[tball]

The politicians who supported the new law, don't have to worry about their personal safety. People living in a bad neighborhoods do. This is a point that should be advertised to the districts of the politicians who supported this law. What is the response time of the police in a bad neighborhood? Many citizens living in bad areas of town are afraid of reprisals if they call the police. They are on their own if someone breaks into their house or assaults them. They need to ask their local representative why they supported a law that prevents them from protecting themselves.

 

[Dave MP]

The politicians who supported the new law, don't have to worry about their personal safety. People living in a bad neighborhoods do. This is a point that should be advertised to the districts of the politicians who supported this law. What is the response time of the police in a bad neighborhood? Many citizens living in bad areas of town are afraid of reprisals if they call the police. They are on their own if someone breaks into their house or assaults them. They need to ask their local representative why they supported a law that prevents them from protecting themselves.

They need to start. VOTE THEM OUT!

 

[dblas]

snip....


We brought this up a LOT at the COMAR hearing on 2013-09-23. Deaf ears.

The COMAR hearing was strictly for the Emergency COMAR, and if it got approved or not. It was a simple up or down vote.

If you want to affect change on the COMAR regs, I suggest everyone make their opinion and suggestions known to Col Brown at MSP. The deadline to make suggestions and/or remarks is midnight on Oct 21.

 

[JettaRed]

When will people stop being confused about what constitutes legal discrimination. Poverty (or lack of money) is not a protected class! And there is a vast difference between food stamps and guns. I see lots of folks here in Frederick walking or riding bicycles because they can't afford a car.

Here are the protected classes:

Race – Civil Rights Act of 1964
Color – Civil Rights Act of 1964
Religion – Civil Rights Act of 1964
National origin – Civil Rights Act of 1964
Age (40 and over) – Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Sex – Equal Pay Act of 1963 and Civil Rights Act of 1964
Pregnancy – Pregnancy Discrimination Act
Citizenship – Immigration Reform and Control Act
Familial status – Civil Rights Act of 1968 Title VIII: Housing cannot discriminate for having children, with an exception for senior housing
Disability status – Vocational Rehabilitation and Other Rehabilitation Services of 1973 and Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
Veteran status – Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 and Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act
Genetic information – Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act
Sexual Orientation – United States v. Windsor

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Blacksmith101]

The COMAR hearing was strictly for the Emergency COMAR, and if it got approved or not. It was a simple up or down vote.

If you want to affect change on the COMAR regs, I suggest everyone make their opinion and suggestions known to Col Brown at MSP. The deadline to make suggestions and/or remarks is midnight on Oct 21.

This should be it's own thread to remind people to get their comments in. Open the flood gates again.

 

[DC-W]

Hell yes it discriminates against the poor.
The goal is no different than that of the NFA.
-Make firearms ownership burdensome and expensive to restrict and lessen access to them.

For a first-time buyer, a Glock 26 goes from being a $500 purchase to $750+ purchase. Add in time -- possibly missed from work -- to get training and fingerprints and added travel. It disproportionately affects those in low-income areas, which are comprised heavily by minorities, especially when taking into account that there are no ranges within Baltimore City limits. Public transportation does not reach many ranges either. The requirements also hamper senior buyers who may not be able to understand the online application process. Cash also isn't an accepted form of payment and there are many that do not have bank/credit cards.

Imagine the outrage if these were requirements for voter registration or permits for public protest/speaking.

These issues were brought up during the COMAR hearings and I suspect we'll be hearing them a lot during the course of the lawsuits in court.

 

[JettaRed]

Hell yes it discriminates against the poor.
The goal is no different than that of the NFA.
-Make firearms ownership burdensome and expensive to restrict and lessen access to them.

For a first-time buyer, a Glock 26 goes from being a $500 purchase to $750+ purchase. Add in time -- possibly missed from work -- to get training and fingerprints and added travel. It disproportionately affects those in low-income areas, which are comprised heavily by minorities, especially when taking into account that there are no ranges within Baltimore City limits. Public transportation does not reach many ranges either. The requirements also hamper senior buyers who may not be able to understand the online application process. Cash also isn't an accepted form of payment and there are many that do not have bank/credit cards.

Imagine the outrage if these were requirements for voter registration or permits for public protest/speaking.

These issues were brought up during the COMAR hearings and I suspect we'll be hearing them a lot during the course of the lawsuits in court.

Then let those in Baltimore change how they vote! Would these be the same poor that drive new Mercedes and BMWs while I drive a 10 year old car?

Stop with the "discriminating against the poor" mantra--it ain't gonna fly and dilutes the real issues! You don't need a f'ing handgun to defend yourself (hint: shotgun), and if you really need a handgun, it doesn't need to be a high end Glock, Sig Sauer, Baretta, etc. Get a 1963 Walther P38 that holds 8+1 9mm luger rounds and is a C&R.

Again, focus on winnable arguments.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[dblas]

This should be it's own thread to remind people to get their comments in. Open the flood gates again.

There is one, it is now buried somewhere around page 5 or 6.

 

[JPG]

If they agree with a "right" the state will pay for your "burden". If they don't agree with a right they will make your life miserable to exercise it.

 

[pozzo]

When will people stop being confused about what constitutes legal discrimination. Poverty (or lack of money) is not a protected class!

This. Nearly everything involving money and the government "discriminates" against someone (rich, poor, etc.). This is about infringement.

 

[5.56blaster]

Yes. But it makes MOM and his bunch of like minded ass wipes feel good so who cares how it affects anyone. Remember its for the children.......

 

[Mr H]

DOES THE MD-FSA 2013 DISCRIINATE AGAINST THE POOR?

Functionally, of course it does. It's part of the purpose of it. Make exercise of anything the State disapproves of so onerous, so that people step away from it.

Legally, it'll take a lot to make the charge stick, IMO.

 

[Mr H]

Of course not. What you can't ban, regulate. What you can't regulate, administer. What you can't administer, charge a fee for.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[danb]

After reading the "plain English" and "non-lawyer" versions by MS forum members, and reading the MSP Licensing webpage, the cost to procure the HQL to buy a handgun in Maryland is expensive, especially for low income and poverty level citizens.

Maybe some of these MD citizens want or need to "exercise their 2A Rights and buy a used inexpensive handgun for personal, family and home protection," especially if they are living in high crime areas.

But along comes MDs FSA and the cost of exercising this right of self defense has now doubled and low income and poverty level citizens cannot afford to legally buy a cheap handgun for self protection.

Will State Government provide low income or poverty level MD [legal & illegal] residents "HQL Subsidy Stamps" towards the purchase of a handgun?

Has MD State Government appropriated taxpayer funding to subsidies handgun purchases by the poor?

Will State Government pay for fingerprinting, firearm safety training, HQL, background check fees, FFL dealer fees and provide transportation, travel expense and a healthy hot lunch to assist the poor in obtaining a handgun under the new FSA regulations? Will the State provide "gun locks" to the impoverished to use on their handguns?

Does MDs FSA violate the president's agenda to "spread the wealth?"

If the MD State Government does not subsidies the low income, poverty level citizens, to comply with the FSA, is this a case of DISCRIMINATION? I wonder???

read this study:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221074.pdf

particularly "Buyer risk factors" p 4.

Ask yourself, who in Maryland already gets fingerprinted (say, for their job) and who does not. Ask yourself, if you live in a poor neighborhood, going the the MSP to get fingerprinted is associated with what activity?

The EEOC is busy suing companies who run background checks for job applicants because its discriminatory.


That is the answer to your question.

 

[abean4187]

This argument is meh with me. If you are going to be throwing down 500 for a handgun, 100 for ammo, 25-50 for range time, and a bunch of other cost, putting out another 100 shouldn’t be breaking the bank. I get annoyed when I go to the range and I overhear people saying things like, “What!? It’s going to cost me 25$ to rent a gun and another 50$ for range time and ammo!!”
Yes, it is actually, owning a gun is expensive, as is becoming proficient with that gun. If you can’t handle that, buy a baseball bat for 15 bucks

That being said, this law discriminates against EVERYONE. 100 dollars is a huge cost considering that firearm ownership is a civil right, social status shouldn’t make any difference on this matter.

 

[MDFF2008]

Of course, why do poor people need guns? They will just shoot each other like hood rat gang bangers.

That's what they really think, but if you ask them they will talk about peace and social justice.

 

[JettaRed]

That being said, this law discriminates against EVERYONE. 100 dollars is a huge cost considering that firearm ownership is a civil right, social status shouldn’t make any difference on this matter.

Agreed! $100 is a deterent, a barrier to entry, an infringement on the free exercise of rights guaranteed by the US Constitution.

I did not say a prohibition to the exercise of rights, but an infringement, which should require less burden of proof. Regardless of how I choose to exercise that right, it should not be infringed! To exercise my 1st Amendment right should not require a qualification license to do so, regardless if I choose to publish a newspaper or just hand out fliers.

 

[Ranchero50]

Agreed, the law discriminates against lawful gun owners, all of us legal guys.

The $700 SR1911 I wanted is now a $800 SR1911 and is waiting on tax time.

As said above, you don't need a handgun for personal defense, it's just easier to conceal (which legal beagles can't do either)...