Detailed NFA Trust Information

[OnTarget]

Now that the trust is properly funded with the dollar, and there is no established banking acct., how do you fund a purchase and ATF Stamp. Aren't funds supposed to be separated from ones personal funds? How would you handle this? Moreover, many people use a credit card when they go to their gun dealers to pay for purchase..

 

[Straightshooter]

Money order made out to BATFE

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[gre24ene]

I used MY credit card when I filed my form 1's and my form 4.

 

[dontpanic]

Funds do not need to be separate. I have a credit card I use just for online purchases. When I efile I use this card.

When I buy from a local desler I just use a personal check. Although a money order does seem a good idea.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yep. I've just paid with my own card to eFile, and when I bought a suppressor, I actually paid the shop for the stamp and they cut the paper check to ATF for me.

 

[protegeV]

Yep. I've just paid with my own card to eFile, and when I bought a suppressor, I actually paid the shop for the stamp and they cut the paper check to ATF for me.

I did the exact same thing with my form 4s. Paid the shop in cash and they cut the check to the atf

 

[OnTarget]

Regarding the beneficiary of a NFA Trust, I read an article this weekend that said the the beneficiary could even be an organization, for example, one of the NRA foundations, 2nd Amendment Foundation, NFATCA, etc. Anybody confirm this?

 

[Pinecone]

We opened a no fee checking account for our trust. At the bank when getting the trust documents notarized (also no fee). I think we put $25 in to open the account.

For shop purposes, I deposit into the trust account and write two checks, one for item, one for BATF.

I could not get a debit card for the no fee checking account, so just use a credit card for eFile Form 1s.

Oh, M&T Bank

 

[Sticky]

We opened a no fee checking account for our trust. At the bank when getting the trust documents notarized (also no fee). I think we put $25 in to open the account.

For shop purposes, I deposit into the trust account and write two checks, one for item, one for BATF.

I could not get a debit card for the no fee checking account, so just use a credit card for eFile Form 1s.

Oh, M&T Bank

My research indicated this is how it should be done... the laws have a lot of gray area in regards to using personal accounts, cc's etc. for trust purchases. A separate account, used only for items in the trust avoids any potential issues in the murky waters of Federal law.

 

[OnTarget]

We opened a no fee checking account for our trust. At the bank when getting the trust documents notarized (also no fee). I think we put $25 in to open the account.

For shop purposes, I deposit into the trust account and write two checks, one for item, one for BATF.

I could not get a debit card for the no fee checking account, so just use a credit card for eFile Form 1s.

Oh, M&T Bank

Should one use their existing social security number for ID when establishing a checking account for a NFA Trust? Or is a whole new Trust Tax Identification Number needed (from IRS)? My bank is checking, but they seem to think that if the Trust has a name, for example, Smith NFA Trust, that it would need an IRS no., but otherwise, a SS no. could be used. Any clarity on this?

The other matter is how one would record the checking acct. and/or credit/debit card on Schedule A as the funding of the NFA Trust? Then, too, if one deposited $200 into a trust checking account, say, to pay for the tax stamp, would the $200.00 have to also be shown on schedule A. Would a deduction have to be shown on Schedule A when the check was written to ATF for stamp.

Seems to me that the check book itself, if you decide to establish checking account, would be enough to establish funding and disbursements. Reading around the web, it seems like there is a 50/50 split on whether a separate checking account is needed.

 

[OnTarget]

Bump message #190 for reply.

 

[Hawkeye]

Should one use their existing social security number for ID when establishing a checking account for a NFA Trust? Or is a whole new Trust Tax Identification Number needed (from IRS)? My bank is checking, but they seem to think that if the Trust has a name, for example, Smith NFA Trust, that it would need an IRS no., but otherwise, a SS no. could be used. Any clarity on this?

I *believe* that in order to establish a bank account for the Trust, you will need to get an EIN for the trust and use that. If you use your SSN when you establish the account, it's your account, not the trust's.

That's hearsay for me though, because I don't have an account for my trust.


From everything I've read, there isn't any legal reason to have a bank account for the trust. Some people see it as extra "legal insulation" or whatever to keep your assets separate from the Trust's assets, just in case, but a great many people simply pay for the stuff themselves. I believe that the logic there is that I, as the Settlor of my trust, can grant it property whenever I feel like it. If I pay for something for the trust with my personal card, I am granting that money to the trust as it is spent, therefore the property that is purchased with that money belongs to the trust, not to me.

Again though, IANAL and all that.

 

[OnTarget]

I *believe* that in order to establish a bank account for the Trust, you will need to get an EIN for the trust and use that. If you use your SSN when you establish the account, it's your account, not the trust's.

That's hearsay for me though, because I don't have an account for my trust.


From everything I've read, there isn't any legal reason to have a bank account for the trust. Some people see it as extra "legal insulation" or whatever to keep your assets separate from the Trust's assets, just in case, but a great many people simply pay for the stuff themselves. I believe that the logic there is that I, as the Settlor of my trust, can grant it property whenever I feel like it. If I pay for something for the trust with my personal card, I am granting that money to the trust as it is spent, therefore the property that is purchased with that money belongs to the trust, not to me.

Again though, IANAL and all that.

Hawkeye:

What you say makes sense to me. If I were to put money in a trust bank acct., it is being funded by me. If I pay for an item directly, say, thru a credit card (or even cash or check), the money is still coming from me.
As usual, thanks for your quick response.

 

[cougar7890]

for those who have multiple trustees on the trust, when you buy NFA items, do all the trustees need to go sign the forms? or one trustee is good enough? also, what's the best way to add trustees so if something happens to me, my wife or a family member can take care of everything in the trust.

thanks

 

[lostcuaz]

To my knowledge on multi-person trust all trustees need to sign the form before it is submitted.

Cause dont want it to go sit in the waiting queue and then be returned X months later

 

[OnTarget]

Is there any advantage to having a NFA Trust AFTER the new ATF law 41F goes into effect on July 13, 2016? I know there is advantage NOW, that is, to get the orders in before the July 13 date. However, there seems to be more burden on a NFA Trust AFTER July 13, than there is on an Individual not having a trust.

http://blog.silencershop.com/atf-41f-published-today/

http://vagunforum.net/post221577.html

http://www.nfafa.org/atf41p.cfm

I erred and just bought a Trust package in the last few days, not having read 41F/P. It looks like this is going to be wasted money (I haven't taken it to have it notorized yet). Again, it looks easier for an Individual to purchase NFA items after July 13. So, I'll remain idle, unless someone can convince me to move forward with the Trust.

 

[OnTarget]

Bump for #196

 

[outrider58]

Bump for #196

AFAIK you still have time to act. As for after 13 July, I'm not sure. I don't do well reading lawyer gobble-d-gook.

 

[Hawkeye]

Is there any advantage to having a NFA Trust AFTER the new ATF law 41F goes into effect on July 13, 2016?

The main one would be if you would like others (including, say, your wife) to be able to have possession of or use the items outside of your presence and supervision.

I erred and just bought a Trust package in the last few days, not having read 41F/P. It looks like this is going to be wasted money (I haven't taken it to have it notorized yet). Again, it looks easier for an Individual to purchase NFA items after July 13. So, I'll remain idle, unless someone can convince me to move forward with the Trust.

I don't think it's an error. Anything that you get paperwork submitted on between now and July whatever it is goes under the current rules, which make it easier for a Trust to purchase than an individual. Buy what you want (or can afford) now as your trust, and it stays relatively easy.

The only increased "hoop jumping" that's going to happen for trusts after July are two things:
1) CLEO notification, which will be the same as for individual purchasers. Just send the letter.
2) Filling out the background check info for all "responsible persons" on the trust. Depending on how your trust is set up, this may not be a big deal. For me, it's just me as Trustee that will have to do that part, as I have no other Trustees.

So that will be two additional small hurdles after July. I just plan on getting most of my purchases done now.

 

[Pinecone]

Should one use their existing social security number for ID when establishing a checking account for a NFA Trust? Or is a whole new Trust Tax Identification Number needed (from IRS)? My bank is checking, but they seem to think that if the Trust has a name, for example, Smith NFA Trust, that it would need an IRS no., but otherwise, a SS no. could be used. Any clarity on this?

The other matter is how one would record the checking acct. and/or credit/debit card on Schedule A as the funding of the NFA Trust? Then, too, if one deposited $200 into a trust checking account, say, to pay for the tax stamp, would the $200.00 have to also be shown on schedule A. Would a deduction have to be shown on Schedule A when the check was written to ATF for stamp.

Seems to me that the check book itself, if you decide to establish checking account, would be enough to establish funding and disbursements. Reading around the web, it seems like there is a 50/50 split on whether a separate checking account is needed.

Once the documents were signed and notarized, the bank let us use there computer to go online and get a Tax ID number.

Which we then used to open teh account.