Countersniper Scope

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  • Patent Guy

    Rifleman
    Sep 1, 2010
    63
    AA County
    I've just returned fron the NRA annual meeting and found a booth showing and selling those "Countersniper" scopes recently advertized in SG and Midway
    as here:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=661466

    I was looking for a Mil-dot in FFP riflescope with external turret adjustements and so was happy to be able to handle and look through the entire line of CS scopes in their booth. I wanted something with adjustments in 1/10th mil increments, but the CS scopes all had 1/4 minute adjustments.

    The Pittsburgh convention center is pretty big, so I was able to look around with the 4x16 50mm and it seemed to be well made (made in Rochester, NY with a 10 yr warranty). The marketing is suspect, though. The marketing director told me that these "contract overruns" would always be available. So I'm wondering what they mean by "overrun."

    At the convention, I looked at scopes made by many companies. The 4-16x50mm CS scope was offered with rings for about $400 so I decide to ignore the goofy marketing and give this CS scope a try. I'm putting together a project AR upper for known-distance qualification, and this scope has adjustment turrets which are very clearly marked and seem solid with good tactile feel when making adjustments. The mildot reticle, being in the First or front Focal Plane, is useful for range estimating at any magnification setting, and looks bright and sharp.

    I've been to the range once with this scope (initial zero) and so far I'm still happy with this scope. This is a pleasant surprise, because this forum and some others have included some very negative remarks. I wonder about these remarks, though, because one negative review stated that the reticle adjustment turrets were plastic, and they are not; on my scope they are aluminum. If someone else has an actual hands-on experience to share, sound off!
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,043
    Elkton, MD
    I have seen over a dozen that wouldnt collimate (Limited Adjustment) and had inconsistent tracking.

    Unless they have redesigned the scopes they are akin to Airsoft scopes IMO. I woldnt keep one if it was free.
     
    I have seen over a dozen that wouldnt collimate (Limited Adjustment) and had inconsistent tracking.

    Unless they have redesigned the scopes they are akin to Airsoft scopes IMO. I woldnt keep one if it was free.

    Chad

    ON the red bull again? Haven't we discussed this before?

    Patent guy is not your average schlub or burgeoning keyboard kommando. Let's let him wring this thing out. We might get some good data.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,043
    Elkton, MD
    Chad

    ON the red bull again? Haven't we discussed this before?

    Patent guy is not your average schlub or burgeoning keyboard kommando. Let's let him wring this thing out. We might get some good data.

    I meant no foul towards Patent Guy. I just dont like the product and have seen issues with every one brought to Scotts for mounting and boresighting.
     

    Mickey the Dragon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 19, 2009
    1,315
    Ohio
    I like how they made up words to describe their special coatings that do not exist.

    Just out of curiosity, I went to the Zeiss website. No mention of any special coatings. The Leupold website talked about their "Diamondcoat," but instead of fancy pseudo-science words, they just said that it keeps your scope from getting scratched. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, blind them with bulls***."
     

    Patent Guy

    Rifleman
    Sep 1, 2010
    63
    AA County
    I like how they made up words to describe their special coatings that do not exist.

    Yes, the marketing is goofy, but those lens coating "made up words" are characterized as a trademark, and trademarks are often coined or made up terms, so that is not evidence of fraud. (Teflon, Martinizing, etc.)

    This month's Gun Tests magazine (May 2011, pp26-31) tested three mil-dot scopes with prices from $1000 to $1400 (Bushnell, Trijicon and Burris) and all three of those scopes failed to accurately track a 4 moa box up, down, left and right. The Burris, at $1400 was almost 4 moa off (!) or 1.8 inches low at just 50 yards, and my scope appears to outperform this Burris, so far.

    The Gun Test folks are usually pretty candid when dis-satisfied, and they rated those 3 scopes as A, B+ (for the Burris) and B, so are the Gun Tests reviewers easier to please than they should be?

    I'm still working on this, but at present it appears that the CS scope would compare pretty favorably to Gun Tests' three scopes this month.
     

    Oliveralan

    Active Member
    Nov 18, 2009
    292
    McLean, Virginia
    bolt the gun down, then run a few box tests, like 20moa up, 20moa right, down, left a couple times. I would be very surpised if it tracks. I shoot long range a lot, and have seen a ton of scopes, never have i seen one of these on the line at any serious or semi-serious match. The marketing in addition to nothing but negative reviews, would make me very weary to purchase one. I will be real interested how this pans out... generally with optics you get what you pay for, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
    I remember these being marketed as "property of the united states of america" and said something like Retail: $2700 crossed out, then with $4XX underneath. Reminded me of an infomercial.
     

    Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    I'm still working on this, but at present it appears that the CS scope would compare pretty favorably to Gun Tests' three scopes this month.

    One other concern is the N of 1 factor. While I think it's laudable to test the scope, even a stopped clock is right 2x a day.

    Mark
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,043
    Elkton, MD
    Again O.P. Im not attacking you but to use Gun Tests as a gauge of quality is flawed. They use one example of a product and then make a determination of the product. Its a flawed way to test.

    I cant count how many glaring fallacies I have read in that publication that it makes me want to choke the writers/testers.
     

    JoeBobOutfitters.com

    ,
    Industry Partner
    Oct 20, 2010
    2,473
    Hays, KS
    Just curious (anyone here) have you ever tested/used a Falcon Menace? What were your thoughts? How does it compare to the "counter sniper". We just got a Falcon Menance in the other day to test out to see if we want to carry them for resale. So far they look pretty promising, and seem like a good entry level FFP. I haven't really heard many good things about the Counter Sniper scopes but....I can't say I've ever seen one in person either.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,043
    Elkton, MD
    Just curious (anyone here) have you ever tested/used a Falcon Menace? What were your thoughts? How does it compare to the "counter sniper". We just got a Falcon Menance in the other day to test out to see if we want to carry them for resale. So far they look pretty promising, and seem like a good entry level FFP. I haven't really heard many good things about the Counter Sniper scopes but....I can't say I've ever seen one in person either.

    Never heard of them but it dont mean they are bad. I say give them a go.
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    I must say the marketing would do infomercials proud and the Govt Contract overrun claims border on outright fraud. Of course I have never dignified spending that kind of money when I can get a similar BSA or NCstar for way less so I have no idea how they actually work.
     

    Russ D

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2008
    12,061
    Sykesville
    Just curious (anyone here) have you ever tested/used a Falcon Menace? What were your thoughts? How does it compare to the "counter sniper". We just got a Falcon Menance in the other day to test out to see if we want to carry them for resale. So far they look pretty promising, and seem like a good entry level FFP. I haven't really heard many good things about the Counter Sniper scopes but....I can't say I've ever seen one in person either.

    Don't you have to send them back to England for warranty work?
     

    jaypark

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Sep 29, 2009
    3,471
    peoples republic of MOCO
    I cant count how many glaring fallacies I have read in that publication that it makes me want to choke the writers/testers

    Choke them and CS for false marketing... no one in SOCOM uses that chit

    And by the by my two sense is Leupold, Zeiss or Schmitt and Bender... never go cheap on glass
     

    JoeBobOutfitters.com

    ,
    Industry Partner
    Oct 20, 2010
    2,473
    Hays, KS
    Don't you have to send them back to England for warranty work?

    from what I have heard yes, Thats one of the reasons I picked up a Wotac. Its good but that said I am scrounging pennies for a Viper PST

    As far as I know the warranty falls on the dealer/importers shoulders in exchanging them with Falcon for their 5yr warranty. The consumer would most likely just be responsible to ship it back to the dealer, and they would ship them a new one back. It is more complicated than your avg stateside warranty paperwork in comparison for the dealer, but shouldn't be any more of an issue for the consumer if a problem should arise.
     

    mdjamesd

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2007
    1,726
    Towson
    I've had no problems with my Falcon Menace in the last 2+ years. The glass isn't leupy or nikon grade, but it works.

    If you decide to carry them, could you get me a price for a sunshade for the 56mm objective...I um, made mine a little ovalish
     

    Patent Guy

    Rifleman
    Sep 1, 2010
    63
    AA County
    One other concern is the N of 1 factor. While I think it's laudable to test the scope, even a stopped clock is right 2x a day.

    Mark

    A valid point, for sure. I'm not done testing the tracking, etc, so I'll have more to report eventually.

    I have a specific goal for this project upper. The Appleseed KD qual course of fire goes from 25 meters to 400 and back (some do 500 and 600, depending), so I can calculate my come-ups and likely maximums for full value wind at, say, 30mph, left and right, when shooting standard xm193 from a 20 inch barrel, and that will define the "box" I care about, at least for now.

    I'll report the outcomes...good or bad. :cool:
     

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