Cosmoline curse

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

Lots of good suggestions here. I've done a bunch, and the best thing is heat. Put the parts in a shallow pan and put them in the oven for an hour. I do stocks in the oven if they are small enough. Wrap the stock in a couple old terry towels, set it on a baking sheet, heat the oven to 200 degrees and pop it in for a hour. I usually take it out, re-wrap it with fresh towels, flip it to the other side and return it to the heat for a second hour (wear gloves to handle it...it will be hot enough to give you a painful scald). The towels will be positively lousy with cosmo but the wood will be clean and dry.

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

Lots of good suggestions here. I've done a bunch, and the best thing is heat. Put the parts in a shallow pan and put them in the oven for an hour. I do stocks in the oven if they are small enough. Wrap the stock in a couple old terry towels, set it on a baking sheet, heat the oven to 200 degrees and pop it in for a hour. I usually take it out, re-wrap it with fresh towels, flip it to the other side and return it to the heat for a second hour (wear gloves to handle it...it will be hot enough to give you a painful scald). The towels will be positively lousy with cosmo but the wood will be clean and dry.

Dang I forgot a HUGE caveat: NEVER, EVER put shellacked wood in an oven (the prime culprit is Mosin Nagant stocks). I can't recall the flash point of shellac, but it is far below that of Cosmoline. If you bake a Mosin stock at 200 degrees at the very least the shellac will melt and the stock will be disfigured. At worst it will CATCH FIRE.

Also, don't bake a cracked stock. Cracks may gape when the wood is heated. I've seen this happen once, and it sucked. Then again, it revealed a hidden flaw that might have resulted in me getting a cheekful of wood if it was not resolved.

 

[Machodoc]

OK. Your gun ... your choice. Do what you want.

I've worked with the conservation of wood for many years, from gun stocks, to antique airplanes, to antique woodwind instruments.

Will heat remove cosmoline? Yes.

Can heat damage (warp, crack, soften/collapse the cells) wood? Absolutely!

Will heat damage your stock? Yes. Usually not to the degree that you will notice, but it will do some amount of damage and it's possible that the damage can become severe.

Think of cooking the grease out of a piece of bacon. It shrivels, warps, and many of the cells are destroyed. No doubt that heat takes the grease out, though! Yeah, that's a much greater extreme than we are talking about here, but some of the proposed methods aren't that far away from it. I'm just trying to illustrate a point. The principles are the same.

When I post things here, I assume that they are going to be read by someone who wants to conserve and preserve a rifle for years to come, rather than clean it as fast as possible so they can go out and shoot it. I'm only posting this now so that inexperienced readers know that there are different approaches and ways of looking at this issue, and they can make an informed choice. This is the Curio and Relic Collectors' forum, and not the "Cheap Gun" forum, although some folks post here who seem to forget that (or don't know the difference).

We talk a lot about how "Bubba" messed up collectible rifles in the past, but some of us say that it's OK to use potentially-damaging methods on certain firearms now because there are so many of them. Thirty years ago, Mausers and Enfields were plentiful and cheap, too. Think about it.

An alternative that requires a little bit of personal effort--not much--but is much better for the stock, is to use mechanic's "GoJo" hand cleaner (without pumice!), well rubbed in, and wiped off with paper towels. It may require a few treatments to clean the stock thoroughly, but it works, and it takes no more than 30 minutes. Once that's done, if you wish, you can wipe it down with mineral spirits, let it dry, and hand rub in a couple of thin coats of boiled linseed oil (BLO). That will clean the stock and seal in whatever has gotten into the wood cells deeper than those on the surface. It will also seal up the dried and damaged surface cells, preserving them for a longer time, but without removing any of the original finish that's still stable. [Let me note here that if you are lucky enough to have any of the original finish left on the stock of one of these SKSs rifles, exposing it to heat is going to make that finish more brittle and lead to faster deterioration. It's not unlike what was put onto the 91/30s.]

This advice is primarily for the SKS rifles that we have been discussing here, and may not be the best approach for other types of stocks with other finishes.

Again, I'm not trying to start a war, or even a debate. I just want people to know about other approaches, and the logic behind them.

 

[Melnic]

Before I purchased my first Mosin, I purchased 3 spare AIM stocks and another spare that a friend ordered but did not want. I wanted to jump on the refinish bandwaggon.
Having access to an industrial oven, I can attest to the heat damaging the stock. I baked mine at 180F and the cosmo weeped right out. Stock #1 had the cosmo all come out, but the result was the Shellac would flake off every opportunity it had. Every time I touched it was a chance the shellac would crack off. Took that spare stock, stripped shellac and stain and polycrylic. It's the "shooter stock" for my 41iz.
Stock #2 I heated up I recall to a little over 130F and it took longer but most of it weeped out. I let it weep then I wiped it off every 30 minutes.
Stock #3, I heated to just 120F and much less came out but after using mineral spirits on it, I have not had any cosmo get on my hands. I shoot under a covered canopy so its not gonna sit in the sun and heat up anymore.
I learned my mistakes, I'm not heating it up much and I"m not using a heat gun or water for something I"m not going to strip. I went hog wild on spending time on the first stock when I really did not have to in order to get it shooting and if that was the original stock, I would have regretted it. I shoot the 41iz with a refinished stock but you know, it does not feel like a WWII rifle with that refinished stock on it. Something old should look old I think. (I say that every morning in the mirror)

 

[Arcamm]

I would just as soon do as little damage as possible. Extra effort and/or time is no problem.

So what would be the least damaging process for a Mosin stock?

 

[Mdeng]

STOP! DO NOT USE ANY CHEMICALS OR WATER ON THE STOCK without reading this first.

Sorry for the caps but I wanted to get that out right away. I have removed the greasy mess from many Mil Surp rifles. While many things will work most of them will also do damage.

Here is a cut and paste borrowed from my buddy Candyman over on www.surplusrifleforum.com The full thread can be found here http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=65922

First off, Heat is the best way to remove Cosmo. Just remember not to get in a rush and get the stock too hot because, you will just cook the Cosmo and that is not a good thing. Just keep your temp. under 200 and you should be OK.
There is no magic cleaner or trick to get the Cosmo out of a stock. If it is soaked in, it will take time to get it out. Any type of cleaner that you put on the stock will only remove what is on or just below the surface. If the stock is soaked with Cosmo, when it gets hot it will weep.

When it comes toWater and wood it is not always a good thing but not always a bad thing. Getting water on your stock will not hurt it but if you allow the stock to get soaked then that can be bad.
When wood gets soaked, fibers can be damaged and when it dries it can warp. When you soak a stock and add heat you are just asking for trouble.
This Brings us to the :twisted: Evil Dishwasher. The trouble with the dishwasher is that stocks tend to stay wet for too long and get soaked and if you leave the heat setting on, you could really mess things up.

When it comes to Chemical cleaners you need to be careful. You must be sure that what you use will not damage the wood. Soaps are fine but, they must be washed off or they will cause trouble when you go to apply your finish.
Cleaners that are not made for wood should be avoided, such as oven cleaner. You may use it 3 or 4 times and never have a problem but that one time when you get a chemical burn on your stock, you will be sick. The way to tell if you have burned your stock is by the color of the wood when it dries. It will be a light grayish green to a black. It all depends on the type of wood and what is on the wood. If the wood is soft or has any soft spots, or is it is dry. All these play a factor when using a chemical cleaner.
If you wish to use a chemical cleaner I would have to say that a paint stripper made to use no wood is your best choice. Strip-X by Klean Strip in the red can works very good.
I like to use Denatured Alcohol the most because it will remove the cosmo from the surface and a little just below and will dry very fast without hurting the wood.

Now when it comes to Steam you are using heat and water. As long as you don't soak the wood prior to heating it you will be ok but, it should be done in sectiond and not the whole stock at one time to avoid any chance of warping.

So if you have a Cosmo soaked stock it will take time to get it out. Don't get in a rush and remember that shortcuts will only show in the end.

Personally I prefer not to use water or chemical strippers. At Candyman's suggestion I have used and had very good results with a variable heat, heat gun. Once the Cosmoline was removed from the surface the heat will then help pull even more out of the wood.

You must be careful not to over heat the surface of the wood. If you start to see SMOKE it's to hot. As you apply heat you will need clean rags or lots of paper towels to wipe the cosmoline off in it's liquid state.

Once I am satisfied that all the cosmoline has been removed. (This will take several removal sessions, You must be patient. Rushing will leave Cosmoline behind to later ruin your rifles finish.) I use 0000 Steel Wool and Denatured Alcohol to remove any shellac that may remain on the stock.

I then inspect the stock and make necessary repairs if the stock shows any cracks. Many cracks are hidden by the healthy amount of cosmoline these guns were stored in. With repairs made I refinish Mosin Nagants with a red shellac.

 

[Mdeng]

Here are a few pics of a stock I removed the cosmoline and shellac from. I really wish I could find the pics of the stock from before I started the work.

Once I repair the crack shown near the tang it will get a fresh coat of red shellac. The technique shown above will leave all the stamps, inspector acceptance marks and handling marks on the stock.

Removing the handling marks takes a little work but it can normally be accomplished with out disturbing the finish. Personally I prefer to leave them as they show the age and character of the rifle.

 

[Mdeng]

A pic of the crack in the wrist.

 

[Arcamm]

That stock looks nice.

Is there anyway to remove the cosmoline and keep the original shellac finish or is that just wishful thinking?

 

[Machodoc]

I would just as soon do as little damage as possible. Extra effort and/or time is no problem.

So what would be the least damaging process for a Mosin stock?

I would (and have ... many times) use GoJo mechanic's hand cleaner on it. GoJo is little more than an emulsified form of mineral spirits (with a little lanolin in it), and mineral spirits are essentially a lower viscosity form of cosmoline (not exactly, but this is for illustration purposes). The mineral spirits/GoJo aren't going to do anything to the stock, wood, or finish that the cosmo hasn't done. It only thins the cosmoline out so that it can be wiped away, then helps it to dry.

I agree fully with Mdeng's friend that you do NOT want to put alcohol, oven cleaner, etc. on a stock. They will remove the finish. GoJo will not remove any finish from a Moisin or SKS stock unless it has become so brittle that it's flaking off.

I don't agree with using heat. Again, it works, but it will do some amount of damage to the stock.

It's entirely possible that some of the cosmoline on these older rifles has penetrated fairly deep into the wood over a long period of time. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Wood cells are like little rigid balloons, and if oil gradually seeps into them, it doesn't hurt a thing.

BUT ... if you heat up those cells, and pop the balloons, you get the oil out but the cells will slowly collapse over time (dry rot). It may take many years, but every bit of damage ads up.

On the other hand, if you thoroughly clean the cosmo that's in and on the surface cells, using something thin (mineral spirits) as a final wash that will evaporate after being wiped away, and then rub in (penetrate) a couple of thin coats of BLO, you'll be sealing up cells that will remain fat and supple with walls penetrated with oils. You won't have grease dripping out of the stock, even in hot weather, and the stock will look clean, original, and what's left of any original finish will be preserved.

You know those little inspector's marks, stars, and other things that make one of these more interesting? They were stamped in, meaning that wood cells were compressed. Put some heat on those cells and they'll expand again ... removing the marks that you should want to preserve. (Dings in a stock can be steamed out ... and you may want to do that sometimes ... but you don't want to accidentally screw up and steam out markings that you want to preserve.)

Mdeng talks about removing shellac, and tells how to do that effectively, but most serious collectors look for pieces that still have the original finish--even if that finish is damaged or not entirely intact. My approach is aimed at conservation / preservation, when possible, and restoration / replication only when the piece is too far gone to preserve in its original condition. If you want to strip the stock and refinish it, that's your business, but a properly conserved gun will probably be worth more down the line than one that's been "restored" or refinished ... even if it's not as nice looking.

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

Mineral spirits does wonders

I use this when needed

 

[Arcamm]

I used the "pouring boiling water over the metal parts" method and that worked just fine.

I wiped down the stock until the rage were clean. I put it in the sun, but it was such a nice day and barely got warm. I put the wood in my car, which is usually very hot but no big help there. The stock has a very thick coat of what ever they used to finish it so I'm not sure how much soaked into much of the wood. So I put it back together. I'm very pleased. Thanks for the help.

 

[Ironnewt]

That stock looks nice.

Is there anyway to remove the cosmoline and keep the original shellac finish or is that just wishful thinking?

Not really. Shellac (at least what the Soviets used) is a rather fragile finish and will flake off with use. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[Mdeng]

Mdeng talks about removing shellac, and tells how to do that effectively, but most serious collectors look for pieces that still have the original finish--even if that finish is damaged or not entirely intact.

Guess I'm not a serious collector then.

I always prefer to keep the original finish but when guns like a Mosin Nagant have the finish flaking off everytime I shoot them its time for an intervention. I have found that to get a shellac finish to stick the cosmoline like grease must be removed.

At one time I thought keeping every rifle in as found military condition was key. Then I realized that if I take every effort not to damage the firearm when restoring I can enjoy yet another aspect of working with my firearms.

Would you leave a stock cracked or would you repair it properly. I can't tell you how many cracked hand guards I have saved from otherwise wall hanger condition.

If I can't shoot it the gun is of no value in my collection.

 

[Machodoc]

Mdeng - I didn't say that you were wrong, but only that most collectors these days try to preserve as much as possible of the original firearm. You (and others) have a different approach. Your gun ... your choice ... but newcomers should see all sides of the issues before they plunge in and change a firearm permanently.

I can think of a few cases where I actually would not repair a broken stock*, but in most cases I would either repair it or buy a replacement and keep the original with the firearm.

[*Say you somehow got, and authenticated, Jim Bowie's rifle from the Alamo and it had the stock cracked from using it as a club. In that case, repairing it would be a huge mistake.]

 

[KRONIK27]

Done wonders when wife not around.

 

[Arcamm]

That's how my wife cleans her Glock.

 

[KRONIK27]

That's how my wife cleans her Glock.

Couple years ago when we had the dishwasher replaced. I was wondering why, seems like there's always something breaking in this house. I was talking to a buddy about his mosin. Told him how I cleaned my sks by using the dishwasher. And dang it, I remembered I wonder if that's why the dishwasher was replaced?

 

[Mdeng]

Mdeng - I didn't say that you were wrong, but only that most collectors these days try to preserve as much as possible of the original firearm. You (and others) have a different approach. Your gun ... your choice ... but newcomers should see all sides of the issues before they plunge in and change a firearm permanently.

I can think of a few cases where I actually would not repair a broken stock*, but in most cases I would either repair it or buy a replacement and keep the original with the firearm.

[*Say you somehow got, and authenticated, Jim Bowie's rifle from the Alamo and it had the stock cracked from using it as a club. In that case, repairing it would be a huge mistake.]

Machodoc, nothing here is taken personally we just have a different point of view on this subject.

While I do try to keep my firearms in original condition I have found that many Mosin Nagants need work to be usable and somewhat presentable. The primary reason the shellac is flaking off is the cosmoline seeping out from under it.

There are a few people here (very few) that have been to my home and seen a portion of my collection. They would probably agree that most but not all of my Milsurps are in original condition and that the few that have been worked on do not show that work. The guns would have to be stripped down to see the repairs.

I do agree that a firearm that is damaged and it has historical relevance it should be left as is. In my collection I have one Japanese Type 44 rifle that was a battlefield pick up and bring back. I have the paperwork with it and a letter from the solider that sent it home. The letter states that the shrapnel in the stock was from a grenade he threw into a cave. It was also noted that the staining on the rifle was from the Japanese solider that had previously owned the rifle.

Most refurbished Mosin Nagants coming into the US today do not fall into the category of historically protected in my opinion. The import marks alone destroys their historic value.

 

[byf43]

For removing cosmoline from a firearm, I remove the barreled action from the stock, and place as much of the rifle (sans stock) into a PVC pipe that has an end cap glued on one end, and a screw-on cap, on the other.

Using Mineral Spirits or Kerosene insert the rifle into the PVC pipe and fill with solution, leaving some room for the cap to be screwed on.

Shaking or agitating the pipe every couple of hours, or so, for at least two days, will get a majority of the crud out/off of the rifle.

For stocks, I first place the stock in a large 'contractor' trash bag, and let it sit in the sun for 1/2 day. (Isn't Summer great!!)

Get some old rags/T-shirts, etc., and start wiping.
Some mineral spirits will help to cut/flow the cosmoline off.

From there, IF the stock has shellac, Denatured Alcohol will make short work of the crap. A PLASTIC scraper helps, too!!

With that said, my first K98k stock was saturated with oil and cosmoline!!
The wrist of the stock was awful.

I bought some "Whiting" from Brownell's, and made a paste using Denatured Alcohol, and it works wonders, drawing out the oil/cosmoline that's in the pores of the wood.

Here's what this K98k looks like, after cleaning, the way I've described.
Now, before anyone says anything, this rifle is NOT a bring-back. It is a Russian Capture ("RC") and is a mis-matched rifle.
Other than the fact that "I" like it, it has no 'historical value'.

There is a 'field repair' to the stock, between the two barrel bands, that fell out, while I was cleaning the stock. I carefully repaired the stock. It will NOT come out, again. (And you can't tell how it's repaired.)



I finished this stock with 4 hand-rubbed coats of Danish Oil, and 6 coats of hand-rubbed paste wax.

It pleases me...... and that's what counts.