Cheating instructors.

[teratos]

We had an odd duck in our W&C class. During one of the breaks he went up to the instructor and asked about modifying an AR15 to fully automatic! LOL! The instructor just looked at him for a minute and said"I could tell you, but I'm not" LOL!
We all had a good laugh about that and started refering to the guy as the undercover agent.

I think he was just a goofball

You just file down the firing pin. Everyone knows that.

 

[Threeband]

You just file down the firing pin. Everyone knows that.

Or you can tie your shoelaces together.

 

[Biggfoot44]

2 hours on trans shooting should be included.

Cool !
Transition from DA to SA on traditional DA auto , or transition from Primary to BUG ?

 

[Applehd]

File down the firing pin far enough and you've just created the perfect 2A crab mallet...

 

[dblas]

It is patently absurd for the powers-that-be to mandate there be 16 hour of training, and then, after putting all their brain cells to work, they only come up with enough material to fills four hours of out of the 16.

The "powers that be" that mandated the 16 hours was the MGA, not MSP.
MSP, as a rule, does not create ANY training for any entity, that falls on the LE Academy. MSP didn't create the 25 round qualification, they only use what was created by the same organization that creates the LE qualification courses as well as the qualification for armed security/PIs.

That serves as their admission that since they cannot come up with anything worthwhile to fill the remaining 12 hours of mandated training time that the 16 hour requirement truly is a ruse, designed solely to be a burden to discourage W&C permit applicants. Come up with 16 legitimate hours of stuff for us to learn, or shorten the training time requirement.

But I repeat myself.

MSP simply enforces the state statute, created by the MGA, you really want to scream at someone and call them out, point all of that at the MGA.

With that said, I really don't want the MGA (or MSP) making up what the actually training should be, do you?

 

[dblas]

My view, (and dare I say that of most people with critical thinking skills), is simple: you don't select some arbitrary training time and then fill in a curriculum to use up that time (of which they only found enough stuff to use up 25% of the time). Instead, you start by sitting down and determining the things that are important for people to learn and THEN calculating how long it will take to teach people those things. What leads, the cart or the horse?

And that is exactly how laws work in Maryland, the MGA creates them, and then the MSP has to figure out how to enforce them. It has never been the other way around where MSP says "we want to enforce this, please create this statute."

 

[Mr. Ed]

There is a climate change emergency. Everything is because of climate change. I think 4 hours on that topic is good.

2 hours on trans shooting should be included.

Is there a bag limit? Special season?

 

[GTOGUNNER]

And that is exactly how laws work in Maryland, the MGA creates them, and then the MSP has to figure out how to enforce them. It has never been the other way around where MSP says "we want to enforce this, please create this statute."

The "powers that be" that mandated the 16 hours was the MGA, not MSP.
MSP, as a rule, does not create ANY training for any entity, that falls on the LE Academy. MSP didn't create the 25 round qualification, they only use what was created by the same organization that creates the LE qualification courses as well as the qualification for armed security/PIs.


MSP simply enforces the state statute, created by the MGA, you really want to scream at someone and call them out, point all of that at the MGA.

With that said, I really don't want the MGA (or MSP) making up what the actually training should be, do you?

Well. Their is the one shot HQL requirement that wasn’t in the law but was in COMAR. So lets get real. Teach the damn class correctly. Also stay up to date on laws. People don’t need to see, hear or learn outdated stuff.


Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

[dblas]

Well. Their is the one shot HQL requirement that wasn’t in the law but was in COMAR. So lets get real. Teach the damn class correctly. Also stay up to date on laws. People don’t need to see, hear or learn outdated stuff.


Sent from an undisclosed location.

That is apples to oranges comparison. The one shot requirement was in the original bill, and then removed in the final, leaving no definition of what proof of firearms operation was. MSP fell back on the original verbiage based on guidance from the AG. Again, MSP didn't "just make something up."

 

[JohnnyE]

And that is exactly how laws work in Maryland, the MGA creates them, and then the MSP has to figure out how to enforce them. It has never been the other way around where MSP says "we want to enforce this, please create this statute."

I understand how MGA does it and the role of MSP. I served for over a decade on Capitol Hill as a Congressional staff attorney (both on committee staff and leading a committee chairman's personal office legislative staff), negotiating and drafting legislation, and working to secure its passage.

To create useful legislation, I would suggest a holding a hearing to solicit guidance on what constitutes a meaningful curriculum for W&C permit holders, reach out to law enforcement leadership for their take on officer training and anything they may care to add, and work to construct a program that gets the job done. My goal upthread was to point out that the 16 hour mandate absent first constructing a curriculum to back that up appears arbitrary and capricious.

 

[linkstate]

I understand how MGA does it and the role of MSP. I served for over a decade on Capitol Hill as a Congressional staff attorney (both on committee staff and leading a committee chairman's personal office legislative staff), negotiating and drafting legislation, and working to secure its passage.

To create useful legislation, I would suggest a holding a hearing to solicit guidance on what constitutes a meaningful curriculum for W&C permit holders, reach out to law enforcement leadership for their take on officer training and anything they may care to add, and work to construct a program that gets the job done. My goal upthread was to point out that the 16 hour mandate absent first constructing a curriculum to back that up appears arbitrary and capricious.

With all due respect, I care not one iota what any LE leadership thinks should be included in a civilian W&C class. It’s already a BS hurdle and the more they stay out of it the better. The only exception would be some of our local Sheriffs.

And if LE admin were to provide guidance, to whom would that be? If it’s the legislature, again, I don’t want them anywhere near making new more onerous rules either.

In a perfect world I might agree given the current requirements. But in general, MSP leadership and the MD legislature do not have our best interests at heart. Nothing against the rank and file.

 

[Mack C-85]

Kenpo, I respect you and hope you are just reading on a small screen.

Scotty's post clearly says 7 AM to 11 PM. Thats way more than four hours on my clock. In fact, I have it at sixteen hours. If he and the TC offering the class want to slug that day out, and he can pass all aspects of the testing (written and live fire), I don't think that anyone will be revoking the TCs creds.

Yes, I can testify to slugging it out.....

Instructors Course(s) for Boy Scout Leaders...

B.I.T. - 4 hrs. ea. Thursday &Friday Evening.
Shotgun Instructor - 4 hrs. ea. Sat & Sun Mornings
Rifle Instructor - 4 hrs. ea. Sat. & Sunday Afternoons

B.I.T., Shotgun and Rifle Instructor all in one long weekend!!

Did I mention it was in Fairfax, VA and it snowed one night coming home???

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

 

[dblas]

I understand how MGA does it and the role of MSP. I served for over a decade on Capitol Hill as a Congressional staff attorney (both on committee staff and leading a committee chairman's personal office legislative staff), negotiating and drafting legislation, and working to secure its passage.

To create useful legislation, I would suggest a holding a hearing to solicit guidance on what constitutes a meaningful curriculum for W&C permit holders, reach out to law enforcement leadership for their take on officer training and anything they may care to add, and work to construct a program that gets the job done. My goal upthread was to point out that the 16 hour mandate absent first constructing a curriculum to back that up appears arbitrary and capricious.

You apparently have no clue how the Maryland GA works....They don't care about "effective training curiculum" they simply wanted another barrier to being able to attain a carry permit in Maryland. It really is that simple.

 

[Biggfoot44]

With all due respect, I care not one iota what any LE leadership thinks should be included in a civilian W&C class.

Civilian SD is its own thing . It's not to be imitation LE , or Armed Security , or Spec Ops , etc .

 

[kenpo333]

No harm done, I'm sure scotty is not trying to shortcut anything and no TC would sign off letting him.

Seen your posts and respect them so I figured it was just a small screen issue.

In my personal opinion, more qualified pistol instructors is a good thing even if they do not conduct formal nra classes. Better that those helping teach others informally have some some baseline instructor training themselves.

Agree with that and right now there is enough business for everyone. It is just bad when someone cheats which drives me crazy.

 

[kenpo333]

I already have done the basic pistol, and the instructor shooting qual. I have this 16 hour day to do, then the nra ccw instructor. My club is paying for part of the classes, so I can instruct there.

I am also taking the dc law adder so get my dc permit, then going for instructor for DC as well. I will only reach thru my club.

So many classes...ugg

Wish you well sorry I though it said 7am to 11 am. Good luch and have fun!

 

[Straightshooter]

You apparently have no clue how the Maryland GA works....They don't care about "effective training curiculum" they simply wanted another barrier to being able to attain a carry permit in Maryland. It really is that simple.

^^^
Repeat it as many times as you want but there are those who will never get the message.

 

[JohnnyE]

You apparently have no clue how the Maryland GA works....They don't care about "effective training curiculum" they simply wanted another barrier to being able to attain a carry permit in Maryland. It really is that simple.

Quite the contrary, I understand very well how the MGA operates. I know they only sought to throw up roadblocks to obtaining permits, not creating well-trained permit holders. This has been well explored in this and countless other threads. They are poster children for what not to do. But you don't replace something with nothing. My intention was to illustrate how a process intent on drafting legitimate legislation would look, an example of what to do.

If the MGA was clever enough they would have feigned the process I've laid out and STILL arrived at 16 hours, but at least it would have had some air of legitimacy. They are not even smart enough, or desirous enough, of masking their true intent.

 

[eruby]

Absent meeting Boondock Saint, hearing Delegate Mike Smigiel yell "the Liberty tree is parched", was the highlight of 2013

 

[Applehd]

Ah Eric, my friend... those nuggets of truth that you are dropping of late, are truely something to behold.