CETME Model L (.223) in the US

[jjones88]

Got my barrel last night. Looks really good!









I'm over halfway on my stock modification to fit the taller flat. It's taking forever as more material had to be removed than I thought.

Holes are completely miss-drilled on mine. Will have to either drill new ones and leave the old, or weld up the old ones and re-drill (latter is what I'm leaning towards).

Also waiting for my weldment kit still Paid for that thing back in March....

 

[Kizmit99]

Greetings all - I haven't logged on here since back in May, but it's good to see some more CETME-Ls getting built in maryland. Here's a pic of the one I did:

The complete build is documented over on WeaponsGuild (if you're a member there): http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=54664.0

The rail squaring jig worked awesome. I am not sure what guys are doing without one, but it's a necessity to square the rails. As pressed on left and squared on right.

That's the one I built and donated - glad to see it's getting some use!

It would be interesting to get these together sometime to compare in person how they turned out.

 

[Combloc]

I'd pay a good premium for one of these prebuilt (well over $1000) provided it's reliable and well done.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I bought some Green mountain barrels from Apex too! They look pretty nice however I only had a second to look at them last night.

Cool build thread on Weapons guild. Its funny how small the world can be... someone renting your loaner tool a few miles away from you.

I think I will probably wait for a nice near 100% receiver to come out. I am not really in a hurry on this.

 

[Bertfish]

I think I will probably wait for a nice near 100% receiver to come out. I am not really in a hurry on this.

I keep telling myself that same thing. I should probably get a barrel and parts kit sooner rather than later though

 

[wbw2123]

Greetings all - I haven't logged on here since back in May, but it's good to see some more CETME-Ls getting built in maryland.


The complete build is documented over on WeaponsGuild (if you're a member there): http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=54664.0



That's the one I built and donated - glad to see it's getting some use!

It would be interesting to get these together sometime to compare in person how they turned out.

Ha! I had no idea you were local. We definitely should get together as soon as I finish mine. I have used your build thread quite a bit for reference. Nice work. It definitely looks cool with the wood furniture.

 

[smdub]

Bertfish: iirc, IMBLITZ still had an extra parts kit (and now barrel) for sale. Drop him a msg if interested.

 

[Bertfish]

Bertfish: iirc, IMBLITZ still had an extra parts kit (and now barrel) for sale. Drop him a msg if interested.

I did, thanks for the reminder.

Tired of kicking myself for always being behind the curve.

 

[Bertfish]

Looking at pictures online I'm not sure I would cut the receiver and weld it back together with the remaining half in the kit. Looks like you can cut off the charging handle guide and reweld it with relative ease (unless someone else can explain to me otherwise).

Also would you need a special receiver to take the collapsible stock? Does anyone know if one of the HK collapsible stocks would work?

 

[Kizmit99]

Got my barrel last night. Looks really good!

I bought some Green mountain barrels from Apex too! They look pretty nice however I only had a second to look at them last night.

Be sure to check the fit of the barrel to the trunnion. At least a few folks are finding they're cut too small for a press-fit in the trunnions they have. Others seem to be fine. I suspect that trunnion specs varied slightly (by a few thousandths) across kits. I know that my trunnion measured a large .669 and the barrels Apex had made are cut to .668, so they would be a slip-fit instead of a press-fit. Again, others seem to have smaller trunnions, so it may be hit-or-miss...

 

[jjones88]

Be sure to check the fit of the barrel to the trunnion. At least a few folks are finding they're cut too small for a press-fit in the trunnions they have. Others seem to be fine. I suspect that trunnion specs varied slightly (by a few thousandths) across kits. I know that my trunnion measured a large .669 and the barrels Apex had made are cut to .668, so they would be a slip-fit instead of a press-fit. Again, others seem to have smaller trunnions, so it may be hit-or-miss...

I saw this come up on the Guild and am trying to follow your posts on there. I didn't have time last night to see if my barrel slid right in or not.

It sounds like if one gets the slip-fit you can shim?

This is my first foray into the roller-lock action so I've been trying to follow the barrel press for the HK/CETME in general and its definitely a bit confusing with the bolt gap...

 

[jjones88]

Well I am one of the lucky ones, my barrel slides right in my trunion with zero effort...

This kit is slowly turning into my cz 26 kit.. a fun adventure!

 

[Kizmit99]

Well I am one of the lucky ones, my barrel slides right in my trunion with zero effort...

Sorry to hear that - although I doubt that will turn out to be that big of a problem... If you have a way of knurling the barrel I doubt it will take much to get it back to a press-fit. The knurling will increase the diameter slightly and (I suspect) it will only need to be increased by a couple of thousandths...

The shims being discussed on WG are really for a different (potential) problem with the barrels. If you look at your barrel you'll see that there's a rim around the chamber end that stops the barrel from sliding all the way through the trunnion. The barrel is intended (we're assuming) to be pressed all the way forward so that this rim is flush with the rear of the trunnion. What some folks have found is that with these barrels the resulting bolt-gap starts at .003". We're assuming (at least I'm assuming) the "safe" bolt-gap for these rifles should be between .004 and .020 (like other rifles of the same design). So an initial BG of .003 would seem to indicate that rim should have been a little thicker (positioning the barrel further back in the trunnion, giving a larger bolt-gap). This is were the shims would come into play. They would sit between (around really) the barrel and the trunnion, effectively increasing the size of that rim.

When I turned my barrel I screwed up and cut my rim too thin and had to use a shim to pull the barrel further back in the trunnion.

What's interesting in all this is that Richard from Apex says he tested some of these barrels in several trunnions and none were a slip-fit -- that would indicate that there seem to be at least two different sized trunnions. Also, the rim width was measured from several of the barrels as they were being demilled - so you would think that .186 would be the correct size. But he also had the bolt-gap measured on several guns and they were all in the range of .009 to .019. So something is amiss somewhere... I know that on mine I ended up with a final rim size of .200 which gave me a .018 bolt-gap... There still seems to be several unknowns as this point... One could be what *should* a good bolt-gap be - we're just assuming it should match the range of other similar roller-delayed guns... (but given the measured gaps from these rifles prior to demilling, this is where I'm putting my money).

This kit is slowly turning into my cz 26 kit.. a fun adventure!

Funny - I just decided last night that I think I'm going to tackle the CZ-26 next...

 

[wbw2123]

The shims being discussed on WG are really for a different (potential) problem with the barrels. If you look at your barrel you'll see that there's a rim around the chamber end that stops the barrel from sliding all the way through the trunnion. The barrel is intended (we're assuming) to be pressed all the way forward so that this rim is flush with the rear of the trunnion. What some folks have found is that with these barrels the resulting bolt-gap starts at .003". We're assuming (at least I'm assuming) the "safe" bolt-gap for these rifles should be between .004 and .020 (like other rifles of the same design). So an initial BG of .003 would seem to indicate that rim should have been a little thicker (positioning the barrel further back in the trunnion, giving a larger bolt-gap). This is were the shims would come into play. They would sit between (around really) the barrel and the trunnion, effectively increasing the size of that rim.

When I turned my barrel I screwed up and cut my rim too thin and had to use a shim to pull the barrel further back in the trunnion.

So I am in the same boat and have to shim my barrel. I found some bearing shims that I think are going to work an and they should be here in the next couple of days.


jjones, as kizmit said, don't let the barrel get you down. Knurling to get the press fit is well accepted for pinned barrels.

 

[jjones88]

Something like this?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=250-1715&PMPXNO=949152&PARTPG=INSRHI

Luckily I'm having great like with my pps-43, start getting somewhere with one of these kits and you get stuck for awhile! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with on the bolt for the cz-26, it's been a stumper.

 

[Kizmit99]

Something like this?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=250-1715&PMPXNO=949152&PARTPG=INSRHI

I haven't run across those before -- but they look like they would probably do a decent job if you don't have access to a lathe...

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with on the bolt for the cz-26, it's been a stumper.

I've got one of Gary Clark's strikers. I have a few kits though, so my plan is to make a couple copies of his original (probably not cost-effective, but I like the idea of building as much as possible). At first I was going to do it 9mm, but I ended up with an original (7.62x25) barrel, so for a first shot I may just go with the original round...

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Well, I got in 4 barrels and tried on three trunnions! All were slip fit! So I am guessing its going to be a common issue.

Did you guys see the newer addition CETME MODEL LV (same as L with scope mount).
http://www.apexgunparts.com/cetme/cetme-lv-parts-kit-with-stanag-scope-base-5-56mm-nato.html

My kit should be here Friday. I plant to mount my Z51 NV scope on it. I don't think any of the original spanish NV optics are out there to buy.

Bertfish bought my Very good Model L kit but with me picking up a LV kit, I think I will sell another Model L kit, with barrel, in good condition if anyone is interested!

 

[Bertfish]

As was mentioned before I'm sure there is some kind of bushing which could be used to take up the gap. Or you could have a sleeve welded in the trunnion and then bored out to the diameter required. There is always a way

 

[Bertfish]

I would really like to see Apex land some of the CETME LC parts kits. I'd buy two or three of them up fast for SBR builds.

 

[smdub]

CETME LC parts kits.

I've eyeballed the receiver shape for a while (I have one of the kits.) One could make a HK collapsible stock fit as a reasonable facsimile if you made a receiver endcap (and if you can weld the receiver 'flat' then yuo have the skills to weld up an endcap.) I can't remember if the 'leg' width was right but it was close. Then just have to cut a barrel down and rethread. The fore-end appears the same in all 3 variants.