CCW training requirement just might be here soon.

[Inigoes]

people say stupid, incendiary things all the time. sometimes they spark riots. this is why the shouting of "fire" in a crowded theater is illegal - putting people in danger with your rights is not allowed, but we're punishing the irresponsible act, not the exercise of the right.

It's not illegal, just stupid!

 

[safecracker]

At the point that we do not have constitutional carry then our right to carry is not there. It has become a privilege at that point.

No argument there.

Privileges are earned.

Rights exist without prerequisites.

The transformation of 2A from a right to a privilege began in 1934. I think it's about time to make a u-turn.

 

[Boxcab]

It's not illegal, just stupid!

True. You will be held responsable for any harm that comes from your actions, but yelling "Fire" is not illegal.


Until someone can show me something other then one persons tweets that this ammendment is real, I'll stand down and quit wasting bandwith on the subject.

Everyone, have a good weekend/Easter etc.

 

[Hotrod Diesel]

to draw up a bill from scratch, slam it through the pertinent rules committees and/or petition it to both floors of the General Assembly and get it passed in the next 72 hours or so. There are bigger fish to fry.

Smigel has stated this WAS added to another bill that was up for debate. The whole thing started with smigel asking on his FB page about an alternative language, as it was originally stated they were pushing it through with the burden on MSP to come up with the training standard.

edit: This is the bill believed to have been amended to include training. I have not seen and actual amendment though.

http://mlis.state.md.us/2012rs/billfile/hb0300.htm

 

[Storm40]

I agree that we're making a lot of fuss over the training requirement that isn't law (yet?), but it sure is an interesting philosophical discussion. We surely have to do something to pass the time waiting on Judge Legg and the Lawyerly Types (sounds like an 80's cover band) to get on with all their arguments and decisions and such.

And, lest I forget, everyone enjoy their Beer Holiday Weekend. Have a Hoppy Yeaster!

 

[Inigoes]

Smigel has stated this WAS added to another bill that was up for debate. The whole thing started with smigel asking on his FB page about an alternative language, as it was originally stated they were pushing it through with the burden on MSP to come up with the training standard.

I got an email from Smigiel this morning, there is no bill or amendment to fight against just yet.

Keep an Eye on Frosh, to see if he pulls a rabbit out of a hat.

 

[safecracker]

I got an email from Smigiel this morning, there is no bill or amendment to fight against just yet.

Keep an Eye on Frosh, to see if he pulls a rabbit out of his ass.

Fixed it for you......

 

[OEH]

Totally disagree.

I may trust you with a gun. I may trust myself. But I do not trust the general public.

Sir, I believe that you have a bright future in MD politics ahead of you...

And so is free speech. But you don't come out of your momma exercising your right of free speech. You have to learn how to talk before you go around saying anything you want.

Where is the "free speech training class"?

I still don't understand people on here . The good fight was fought to remove a BS law and people are now sitting around thinking that the State will do whats "right" with training (if it goes down that road) . All this time the online/ video training was enough funny now all of a sudden magically its not. You have the State playing hard ball on one side but then think they will roll right over with training? Come on get real. Look at DC or Chicago look how they "rolled over" .

i find it amusing that we as a group rail against the antis because they're effectively keeping us from exercising our 2A rights. Many times, that's because the antis fear guns and don't trust them in the hands of "just anyone." Now we're on the verge of getting our 2A rights and now some of our own want state mandated training because they fear guns in the hands of "just anyone."

I agree. I think that they have BGOS and just don't realize that its a RIGHT not a PRIVILEGE.

That said, Americans do not need a reason (or training) to exercise a Right. The Right's existence is the only reason he needs.

I think I've heard that somewhere before...

I'm just saying before you do anything that may harm others, no matter if it's driving a car, carrying a gun flying a plain, folding Parachutes for others, voting, writing news stories, rallying others to your cause, you should have training.

Fixed it for you...

The US has a never ending supply of self righteous people willing to impose their fears and unfounded beliefs on others.

Fixed that for you too. Don't take that as a personal attack, it is meant as a statement about the public in general.

 

[Hotrod Diesel]

That is good news, of course this is just something to discuss to make the time pass until the next update. I have found that it looks like HB300 passed http://mlis.state.md.us/2012rs/bills/hb/hb0300t.pdf
It makes retired police ccw good for 5 years instead of 3 after renewal.

"SECTION 2. AND BE IT FURTHER ENACTED, That this Act shall take effect 27 October 1, 2012" < This is my favorite part.

 

[Boondock Saint]

Smigel has stated this WAS added to another bill that was up for debate. The whole thing started with smigel asking on his FB page about an alternative language, as it was originally stated they were pushing it through with the burden on MSP to come up with the training standard.

edit: This is the bill believed to have been amended to include training. I have not seen and actual amendment though.

http://mlis.state.md.us/2012rs/billfile/hb0300.htm

Are you a betting man?

 

[Merlin]

I agree. Wholeheartedly. Training is a good thing and I recommend and endorse it.

HOWEVER, when politicians create "training" requirements in order for the people to exercise a right, said right no longer exists as a right. Now that right has been reduced to a privilege, which can be further restricted or even denied by those in power.

It really is that simple.

Your right. And it is as Equally as simple that a untrained person could kill you because of their lack of training. Now I'm going to guess that one reason you feel as strongly as you do is because of the constitution does say we have the right to bare arms and does not mention any training.

And it would be wonderful if every state did not have a permit requirement where we did not have to ask anyone if it is OK for us to carry.

And it will be sad when we pick up the paper now and then and read about someone that we do not know that lives 500 miles away from us got killed because someone that did not have any training made a mistake.

We/you can say things like, "that's the way it goes" "Sometimes that will happen", "they can't force me or anyone else to get any training and that's how I like it and want it to stay".

But you might feel different if the person that got shot was your mom or dad, sister or brother. And the only reason they got shot was do to someone that needed training did not get any, and it would not have happend if only the person with the gun had some basic safety training.

My perfect world is we all can carry anytime we want without the need for a permit.

My perfect world is a place that we all were expert marksmen that know how to handle a gun in the safe manner.

And you could buy a box of 9mm for $4 for 50 rounds. Hay if I'm wishing!

But we do not live in my perfect world.

How many of us have been to the range all the time and everyone is always safe. But we all have been to the range when that one guy or the guy and his friend are acting in an unsafe manner.

Why do you thing gun ranges have safety rules in the first place. If we or everyone was all always safe why should they bother to have safety rules posted on the wall. Was it a waist of time for them or not?

If one day you opened up your own shooting range would you have any rules? Or do you think at your range only people that know what they are doing would only come to your range?

Have you ever seen a range employee ask someone shooting at the rang to stop whatever they are doing because it was unsafe? I have.

If it were not for the rules at these ranges you would have nitwits standing down range taking turns shooting apples off of each others heads.

Have you ever handed someone a gun that does not know about guns and they do not check to see if is loaded? I have all of the time. If I had a $1 each and every time I told a newbie the first thing they should always do when someone hands them a gun is check to see if it loaded, I could afford to buy you all the guns you want.

They are out their they need training and they might hurt you.

 

[2ndCharter]

An annual or renewal training requirement isn't going to sit well with me. I just don't have the time for it and haven't taken a vacation day in 5 years. If however, training is one time, readily accessible to everyone and inexpensive, I can live with it.

Walking in to get a handgun with a DD214 doesn't make someone proficient with a weapon and "weapon safe". It depends on what you did during your military career. Hunter's safety covers some great ground, but teaches you nothing about handguns or carry laws or defense laws. I honestly don't know of one training solution that fits the bill for what people need to know before carrying here in MD.

That said, I'd suggest that someone start putting together a training plan, modeled after other proven offerings. Provide it as online training without video for us rural people without broadband. Charge $15 for it and allow someone to print out a cert at the end. Leave a place on the cert to allow a range officer to certify that the individual has participated in live fire (not training, no class, just range time).

 

[Hotrod Diesel]

Are you a betting man?

I am always up for a friendly wager, but I do not know what you are suggesting to bet on?

 

[Merlin]

Also here is another thought. Police! When they are going through their training do you think they get training with their firearms?

When the government are putting these police to be through this training are they just wasting our tax dollars when they get the firearms training, or if our tax dollars are being used on their training it should only be on how to fill out reports?

 

[Inigoes]

Also here is another thought. Police! When they are going through their training do you think the given department give their officers to be any training with their firearms?

When the government are putting these police to be through this training are they just wasting our tax dollars when they get the firearms training, or if our tax dollars are being used on their training it should only be on how to fill out reports?

Grasping at straws?

 

[Boondock Saint]

I am always up for a friendly wager, but I do not know what you are suggesting to bet on?

I mentioned earlier that I'd lay some long odds on the idea that a training requirement bill is passed by the end of this session, Monday night. There's just next to no way it will happen. However, if you are so inclined, I'll wager $50 to your $5 on the matter, proceeds benefiting the charity of winner's choice.

 

[Merlin]

Sir, I believe that you have a bright future in MD politics ahead of you...

Where is the "free speech training class"?




I agree. I think that they have BGOS and just don't realize that its a RIGHT not a PRIVILEGE.
I think I've heard that somewhere before...


Fixed it for you...
Fixed that for you too. Don't take that as a personal attack, it is meant as a statement about the public in general.

I like that to, Thanks.

 

[pcfixer]

NO more training needed other than what is required to purchase
a regulated firearm now. Either the Md online safety course or
a Military ID card. One or the other.
NO Way should the MSP be involved on providing training.. That is
a political football ..Police and Sherriff's job is not to conduct training.

..

 

[Merlin]

Grasping at straws?

it's not grasping at straws. I know how to be safe with a gun (or I think I do) and I don't want to bother to go to training and to spend the money on training. All I'm saying if for whatever reason I have to, I understand why I have to.

 

[Merlin]

An annual or renewal training requirement isn't going to sit well with me. I just don't have the time for it and haven't taken a vacation day in 5 years. If however, training is one time, readily accessible to everyone and inexpensive, I can live with it.

Walking in to get a handgun with a DD214 doesn't make someone proficient with a weapon and "weapon safe". It depends on what you did during your military career. Hunter's safety covers some great ground, but teaches you nothing about handguns or carry laws or defense laws. I honestly don't know of one training solution that fits the bill for what people need to know before carrying here in MD.

That said, I'd suggest that someone start putting together a training plan, modeled after other proven offerings. Provide it as online training without video for us rural people without broadband. Charge $15 for it and allow someone to print out a cert at the end. Leave a place on the cert to allow a range officer to certify that the individual has participated in live fire (not training, no class, just range time).

Well it will not set well with me either

renewal $75
Livescan $75
Training for each of the two years $250. ($125 per year)

That's $400 ever two years to have a ccw.

Here is something that I'm very surprised that the states have not tried to make anyone in the US buy, insurance to carry.