CCW Between States

[STSCM]

Okay, I'm putting this in the National 2A area for lack of a better idea.
So, say someone has a Florida permit or a Utah permit and they're planning a road trip across country. What's your average time spent on checking the various states laws concerning CCW prior to the trip? I don't want to rely on some broken website that says 'sure, come on down' when they haven't updated in 2 years or somethin. Plus the LEO I'm talking to on the side of the road probably won't be too impressed with that knowledgeable tidbit.
(I could go on a rant about how congress uses the interstate commerce to do anything they want but they can't protect our 2A rights, but I won't.)

 

[Punch84]

My wife suprised me with a book called "Traveler's guide to firearm laws" last month. Try www.gunlawguide.com. So far the info has been spot on with reciprocity for my Florida/Utah permits. It is updated for 2010 with West Virginia and Nevada switching places..

 

[ezliving]

Group buy: http://www.gunlawguide.com/multibook.htm

 

[STSCM]

Group buy: http://www.gunlawguide.com/multibook.htm

Okay, how do we round up the 'group'? I'm all for it.

 

[AliasNeo07]

I'm in for that too.

I have a different question. Suppose you guys are driving from here to VA and are going to CCW in VA. Where the hell do you guys load up?

Do you guys pull over on the highway, pop the trunk, load your weapon and holster it?
A gas station bathroom?

Where?

 

[STSCM]

I'm in for that too.

I have a different question. Suppose you guys are driving from here to VA and are going to CCW in VA. Where the hell do you guys load up?

Do you guys pull over on the highway, pop the trunk, load your weapon and holster it?
A gas station bathroom?

Where?

Great question. I'm going to Costco at Pentagon City, load up in the parking lot? Unload at the Super H? If I drop my carry into a bottle of kimchee I won't have to worry about anyone finding it!

 

[swinokur]

Great question. I'm going to Costco at Pentagon City, load up in the parking lot? Unload at the Super H? If I drop my carry into a bottle of kimchee I won't have to worry about anyone finding it!

I go to the NRA range in Fairfax couple times a month and spend a good bit of time in No Va socializing and I always carry.I have a VA and FL and UT CCW. I live in Bethesda 3 miles from VA. I drive across the Legion Bridge, stay in the far right lane and proceed as if I'm going to exit onto Georgetown Pike Rt 193 which is just after the GW PW exit. I pull off on the shoulder, pop on my hazard flashers, open my lock box, load my pistol, holster it and get back in the car and get back on 495. I do the reverse going back to MD. I keep my pistol in a car lock box

I keep my pistol in a Gunvault Micro so I exceed MD regs and comply with FOPA. Hard to get into troble doing it that way..

 

[STSCM]

I keep my pistol in a Gunvault Micro so I exceed MD regs and comply with FOPA. Hard to get into troble doing it that way..

Good point.

 

[swinokur]

Okay, I'm putting this in the National 2A area for lack of a better idea.
So, say someone has a Florida permit or a Utah permit and they're planning a road trip across country. What's your average time spent on checking the various states laws concerning CCW prior to the trip? I don't want to rely on some broken website that says 'sure, come on down' when they haven't updated in 2 years or something. Plus the LEO I'm talking to on the side of the road probably won't be too impressed with that knowledgeable tidbit.
(I could go on a rant about how congress uses the interstate commerce to do anything they want but they can't protect our 2A rights, but I won't.)

I don't know how long it takes, but I would check three places:

1. www.handgunlaw.us
2. www.usacarry.com
3. State AG web site.

I have found errors on some state's AG sites that were not up to date. By checking all 3, I may be able to resolve any discrepancies and keep myself out of trouble. When it comes to keeping myself out of jail, I will take as long as it takes to make sure I'm legal in each state I plan on going through. In sates I am not legal in, firearm transported in compliance with FOPA.

 

[AliasNeo07]

I go to the NRA range in Fairfax couple times a month and spend a good bit of time in No Va socializing and I always carry.I have a VA and FL and UT CCW. I live in Bethesda 3 miles from VA. I drive across the Legion Bridge, stay in the far right lane and proceed as if I'm going to exit onto Georgetown Pike Rt 193 which is just after the GW PW exit. I pull off on the shoulder, pop on my hazard flashers, open my lock box, load my pistol, holster it and get back in the car and get back on 495. I do the reverse going back to MD. I keep my pistol in a car lock box

I keep my pistol in a Gunvault Micro so I exceed MD regs and comply with FOPA. Hard to get into troble doing it that way..

I thought neither the ammo nor the weapon could be accessed within reach of the drivers seat. Or in the "Passenger Compartment" or something.

 

[HardHatMan]

I thought neither the ammo nor the weapon could be accessed within reach of the drivers seat. Or in the "Passenger Compartment" or something.

I think the gun can't be accessible to the driver and the ammo and gun can't be stored together or something like that..... God dammit, where the hell is Novus....

 

[swinokur]

I thought neither the ammo nor the weapon could be accessed within reach of the drivers seat. Or in the "Passenger Compartment" or something.

oops. Forgot to mention, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee so my lockbox is in the back of my Jeep. Loaded mags are in the boxwith the pistol.

But technically if you were driivng to a range in VA, you could travel under MD 4-203 which states enclosed case or holster. But the MD AG has also issued an opinion that unless your origin and destination are BOTH in MD, the Fed FOPA law applies. hence to meet that opinion, I travel into VA under FOPA

Car-unloaded locked in trunk with ammo
No trunk-locked in a box unloaded. ammo may or not be in the box

Fed FOPA below:

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 926A

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

[AliasNeo07]

oops. Forgot to mention, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee so my lockbox is in the back of my Jeep. Loaded mags are in the boxwith the pistol.

But technically if you were driivng to a range in VA, you could travel under MD 4-203 which states enclosed case or holster. But the MD AG has also issued an opinion that unless your origin and destination are BOTH in MD, the Fed FOPA law applies. hence to meet that opinion, I travel into VA under FOPA

Car-unloaded locked in trunk with ammo
No trunk-locked in a box unloaded. ammo may or not be in the box

Thats i guess what I was asking. So if I were doing it under FOPA (I need to read up on that again) I'd still have to pull over get out of my car and pop the trunk, lol. Though I guess technically I can get into my trunk because my back seat folds forward :-P. What about mags? Loaded? Same case as the gun?

Forgot to ask, how do you like your Gunvault Micro? Was thinking about getting one.

 

[alucard0822]

Books and guides are decent, but dated before the ink is even dry. I usually look over the AG or state police websites for the rules, and if I can't find them, I call the AG's office, they are almost always more than happy to e-mail or fax you their current statutes. I keep an eye on WV, VA, PA and DE, where I spend most of my time, but if I were going on a trip, I would check all of them to be sure, mostly looking for where not legal to carry in addition to Federal buildings, airports and schools.

As far as kitting up, I wear empty holsters and mag pouches, store the cleared guns in a small hardcase, and loaded mags (with the MD AG's letter stating they are legal) in a separate container. Once I cross the state line, I go to the next destination, find a quiet spot, and load up in the car, making sure that nothing gets stuck in the holster or trigger guard while holstering, then when I park, and get out of the car, I make minor adjustments with my rig hidden by the door, car, and my concealment garment.

 

[swinokur]

Thats i guess what I was asking. So if I were doing it under FOPA (I need to read up on that again) I'd still have to pull over get out of my car and pop the trunk, lol. Though I guess technically I can get into my trunk because my back seat folds forward :-P. What about mags? Loaded? Same case as the gun?

Forgot to ask, how do you like your Gunvault Micro? Was thinking about getting one.

As Alucard stated, the MD AG has issued an opinion that loaded mags are OK, as long as they are not in the firearm. Just insure both mags and the weapon are locked in your trunk. I would be very careful about accessing your trunk from the passenger compartment. FOPA states NOT Accessible from the passenger compartment. You'd be in violation if you accessed your firearm from the passenger compartment.

Like Alucard I keep a written copy of MD 4-203, Fed FOPA and the MD AG opinions on travel under FOPA and loaded mags being legal in my Gunvault in case of a LEO encounter. Some LEOS don't know the laws perfectly and having them with me may keep me out of trouble.. I can post them later if you like as I'm on a different PC right now. If you search the forums you can find all this stuff as well.

Love my Gunvault Micro. Use it for airline travel as well.

 

[jonnyl]

oops. Forgot to mention, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee so my lockbox is in the back of my Jeep. Loaded mags are in the boxwith the pistol.

But technically if you were driivng to a range in VA, you could travel under MD 4-203 which states enclosed case or holster. But the MD AG has also issued an opinion that unless your origin and destination are BOTH in MD, the Fed FOPA law applies. hence to meet that opinion, I travel into VA under FOPA

Car-unloaded locked in trunk with ammo
No trunk-locked in a box unloaded. ammo may or not be in the box

Fed FOPA below:

I thought you always had the option of travelling under state law? I don't know this stuff very well so I'm really asking for clarification rather than disagreeing.

For example: If I'm legal to CCW in VA, but live in Maryland I can transport in Maryland under Maryland law (enclosed case or holster and unloaded). But to be legal in Maryland I'd need to be going to an approved place or activity (informal target shooting at the NRA Range for example). Once I get across the border it doesn't really matter since I'm legal to CCW.

I'm usually in the "better safe than sorry" camp, but the reason I'm asking about these distinctions is I'd like to be able to get loaded up without going to the trunk if possible. Since Marylands transport laws are a bit less restrictive than FOPA I'd rather use them where possible.

Any more thoughts or clarifications would be helpful!

 

[AliasNeo07]

As Alucard stated, the MD AG has issued an opinion that loaded mags are OK, as long as they are not in the firearm. Just insure both mags and the weapon are locked in your trunk. I would be very careful about accessing your trunk from the passenger compartment. FOPA states NOT Accessible from the passenger compartment. You'd be in violation if you accessed your firearm from the passenger compartment.

Like Alucard I keep a written copy of MD 4-203, Fed FOPA and the MD AG opinions on travel under FOPA and loaded mags being legal in my Gunvault in case of a LEO encounter. Some LEOS don't know the laws perfectly and having them with me may keep me out of trouble.. I can post them later if you like as I'm on a different PC right now. If you search the forums you can find all this stuff as well.

Love my Gunvault Micro. Use it for airline travel as well.

Yeah I'll need to gather all those letters and laws and stuff and go over them and also keep a copy with me. I'm going to the Florida Keys in a month (haven't planned a route. I was just going to punch it into the GPS and roll out, lol) but I'll have to check it out. Thanks

 

[vette97]

I also suggest bringing a copy of gun receipts with you for the guns your transporting. In PA, if it comes down to you carrying a firearm and police finding out about it, they like to seize it and run a check against the PA sales database. If it comes back with nothing because you didn't buy it in PA, they sometimes keep people's guns until they could produce proof of ownership, but in some cases, they had to get a lawyer to write a Writ of Replevin against the dept. I read about these instances on PAFOA. It's not legal but the small departments do this anyway. Therefore, I always have copies of receipts on me. I also print out, from that state's website, the reciprocity info that covers my carry using a UT or FL CCW. Better to CYA than lose your piece for obeying the laws and having to fight later.


ETA:

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/63043-got-pulled-over-my-px4-confiscated.html
and
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/9143-gun-stolen-hawley-pd-page-5.html#post113545

 

[Markp]

Okay, I'm putting this in the National 2A area for lack of a better idea.
So, say someone has a Florida permit or a Utah permit and they're planning a road trip across country. What's your average time spent on checking the various states laws concerning CCW prior to the trip? I don't want to rely on some broken website that says 'sure, come on down' when they haven't updated in 2 years or somethin. Plus the LEO I'm talking to on the side of the road probably won't be too impressed with that knowledgeable tidbit.
(I could go on a rant about how congress uses the interstate commerce to do anything they want but they can't protect our 2A rights, but I won't.)

It used to be quick when packing.org was around... now dead website... had all the laws easy to check. It's a goat rope now! As for carry in the vehicle, I transport according to MD law, but as soon as I cross the border into VA, I'm carrying concealed (Texas CHL reciprocity).

Mark

PS - Wonder how the folks in PA run a serial number on a gun that doesn't have one! That could be more excitement than I'd want in a day and yes, it's legal, I built it myself.

 

[swinokur]

I thought you always had the option of travelling under state law? I don't know this stuff very well so I'm really asking for clarification rather than disagreeing.

For example: If I'm legal to CCW in VA, but live in Maryland I can transport in Maryland under Maryland law (enclosed case or holster and unloaded). But to be legal in Maryland I'd need to be going to an approved place or activity (informal target shooting at the NRA Range for example). Once I get across the border it doesn't really matter since I'm legal to CCW.

I'm usually in the "better safe than sorry" camp, but the reason I'm asking about these distinctions is I'd like to be able to get loaded up without going to the trunk if possible. Since Marylands transport laws are a bit less restrictive than FOPA I'd rather use them where possible.

Any more thoughts or clarifications would be helpful!

I suppose if headed to a MD approved location in VA you could transport under MD 4-203, and in fact I have done it when feeling lazy. Range bag in back of Jeep. But since I am aware of the AG opinion, I usually comply with FOPA just for insurance. Can't hurt. I'd guess most MD LEO's may not even be aware of the AG opinion so you would be OK in an enclosed case or holster under MD 4-203.