Can employer ban handguns

[Braxtonian]

I'm new here, so please forgive me if this has already been addressed and I missed it.

How far can an employer (not a school, bank, etc) go with restricting/banning possession of a firearm by employees?

1) Can they ban possession in the building?
2) Can they ban possession in your car, parked on company property?
3) Can they ban possession in your car or on your person while in your personal vehicle, not on company property, but while on company business?
4) Other?

My employer appears to be implementing a policy that forbids all of the above; however if the constitution guarantees me the right, and the state issues me a carry permit, can my employer legally take away that right?

Yes, I realize in MD that "shall not be infringed" is Latin for "do as I say, not as I do".

 

[simplegreen]

i've been dealing with this same thing. so here's a few points of advice.

1) they cant "BAN" you from all of the above, but they can terminate your employment based on all of the above if you are found in violation. Its the same as if they had a policy against wearing a speedo in the office.. if you wear one you get fired. Same concept

2) remember keeping weapons in your car can get you in legal trouble as well. TECHNICALLY you are not legally allowed to have a firearm in your car unless you are going to a reputable location (range, shop, gunsmith, friends house etc) with that firearm and only from point A to point B. So if you decide to disobey your employers rights which you are entitled to decide to do, you have to be careful with the legal stuff unless you are willing to accept the consequences there too. (obviously all this is in question if you have a ccw)

my company TECHNICALLY has a policy i cant carry while on the job, in a rental car paid for by them, in a hotel paid for by them, on travel (so in my luggage) if paid for by them you get the point.

 

[boricuamaximus]

It's their business. They can do whatever they want as long as it's within their confines. Kinda like how no one can tell you that you cannot carry in your home.

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Dont know. Maybe because you're in your personal vehicle, not on company property.
4) Other as in? You can own whatever you want. They cannot restrict you from buying anything. It's like them forcing you to be a Ravens/Steelers fan when you know in your heart that the Eagles are the best team out there.

Basically, if it's their property you need to abide by their rules. If you're conducting business on behalf of the company you still have to abide by their rules.

 

[The3clipser]

the Eagles are the best team out there.

QFT

 

[MDMOUNTAINEER]

i've been dealing with this same thing. so here's a few points of advice.

1) they cant "BAN" you from all of the above, but they can terminate your employment based on all of the above if you are found in violation. Its the same as if they had a policy against wearing a speedo in the office.. if you wear one you get fired. Same concept

2) remember keeping weapons in your car can get you in legal trouble as well. TECHNICALLY you are not legally allowed to have a handgun in your car unless you are going to a reputable location (range, shop, gunsmith, friends house etc) with that handgun and only from point A to point B. So if you decide to disobey your employers rights which you are entitled to decide to do, you have to be careful with the legal stuff unless you are willing to accept the consequences there too. (obviously all this is in question if you have a ccw)

my company TECHNICALLY has a policy i cant carry while on the job, in a rental car paid for by them, in a hotel paid for by them, on travel (so in my luggage) if paid for by them you get the point.

fixed it for ya

 

[travistheone]

fixed it for ya

+1 what she said

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Under Maryland law the way it stands as of today the answer is:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

Maryland is an 'at will' employment state meaning, absent a contract between the employee and the employer, the employer can fire you for any time and for any reason as long as its not one of the constitutionally impermissible reasons (ie fired because you are black or something like that).

 

[Maverick0313]

Under Maryland law the way it stands as of today the answer is:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

Maryland is an 'at will' employment state meaning, absent a contract between the employee and the employer, the employer can fire you for any time and for any reason as long as its not one of the constitutionally impermissible reasons (ie fired because you are black or something like that).

+1...what he said...

 

[Drmsparks]

fixed it for ya

But the OP pointed out he has a CCW permit....

 

[MDGolom]

But the OP pointed out he has a CCW permit....

I'm curious if the OP lives in Maryland. Regardless, I would think the employer has the right to establish weapons policies as they see fit. My company doesn't allow weapons on company property. When my S&W needed repair, I decided not to have it shipped to my office for this reason.

As for not allowing you to have it in your personal car if engaged in company business, I'm not sure. If you're not on company property at any point, I would think you would be ok, but I'm not a lawyer. Then again, as another posted pointed out, Maryland is an 'At Will' state, do if they found out, they could let you go.

 

[Drmsparks]

I'm curious if the OP lives in Maryland. Regardless, I would think the employer has the right to establish weapons policies as they see fit. My company doesn't allow weapons on company property. When my S&W needed repair, I decided not to have it shipped to my office for this reason.

As for not allowing you to have it in your personal car if engaged in company business, I'm not sure. If you're not on company property at any point, I would think you would be ok, but I'm not a lawyer. Then again, as another posted pointed out, Maryland is an 'At Will' state, do if they found out, they could let you go.

It's the in the car clarification I was referring to. Employers can impose limits on their property, I was curious about the other clarifications posted afterwards.

) remember keeping weapons in your car can get you in legal trouble as well. TECHNICALLY you are not legally allowed to have a handgun in your car unless you are going to a reputable location (range, shop, gunsmith, friends house etc) with that handgun and only from point A to point B. So if you decide to disobey your employers rights which you are entitled to decide to do, you have to be careful with the legal stuff unless you are willing to accept the consequences there too. (obviously all this is in question if you have a ccw)

ignoring the obvious security issues can a CCW permit holder leave a weapon in the car? Would passengers be at risk of prosecution since the weapon is out of control of the permit holder?

 

[Markp]

i've been dealing with this same thing. so here's a few points of advice.

2) remember keeping weapons in your car can get you in legal trouble as well. TECHNICALLY you are not legally allowed to have a firearm in your car unless you are going to a reputable location (range, shop, gunsmith, friends house etc) with that firearm and only from point A to point B. So if you decide to disobey your employers rights which you are entitled to decide to do, you have to be careful with the legal stuff unless you are willing to accept the consequences there too. (obviously all this is in question if you have a ccw)

Let's clarify point 2. Keeping a firearm in your car is NOT illegal. Keeping a handgun in your car might be (not with a valid CCW), but show me where keeping a firearm in your car is illegal.

Furthermore, unless you are hunting, there is no prohibition from keeping a loaded firearm in your car as long as it is NOT a handgun. You still might get charged under the DNR statute, but if you are not hunting I would think it would be hard to make a hunting charge stick... but this is MARYLAND.

So you could drive around with a folding stock Saiga 12 with a 20 round drum magazine next to it fully loaded on the seat and there isn't a statute that you can be charged under AFAIK. If I am wrong, someone tell me where this would be prohibited in the law.

Mark

 

[montoya32]

I'm curious if the OP lives in Maryland. Regardless, I would think the employer has the right to establish weapons policies as they see fit. My company doesn't allow weapons on company property. When my S&W needed repair, I decided not to have it shipped to my office for this reason.

As for not allowing you to have it in your personal car if engaged in company business, I'm not sure. If you're not on company property at any point, I would think you would be ok, but I'm not a lawyer. Then again, as another posted pointed out, Maryland is an 'At Will' state, do if they found out, they could let you go.

You would need permission from your employer to carry while on the "clock".

 

[jonnyl]

I believe that some of the freer states have passed laws that forced companies to allow employees to keep guns in their cars on company property. The logic being that not allowing them to keep it in the car effectively banned them from protecting themselves going to and from work.

Of course that kind of logic only exists in states that get the concept of people having a right to defend themselves...

someday....

 

[Braxtonian]

Further clarifications:

1) I do not hold a CCW, but this post is assuming that I get one.
2) Though I can park on company property, I normally park on the service road across the street.
3) I reside in PA, but work in MD.
4) I am a system administrator. I regularly have to make trips to other stores throughout MD and VA. On any given day I can leave PA and go to the office in MD, and then leave MD and go through WV to get to a location in VA.

This being said if my employer prevents me from having a weapon on premises, and especially in my car even if off premises while on "company time", then I am effectively with no defense to and from work, between locations, on the job, etc. Pretty gay. Just wondered if employers can have in their written policy that you cannot do something that the law has explicitly given you a license to do.

 

[lowoncash]

My soon to be former employer (approaching retirement) has a no firearms policy that includes ammunition. According to security they actually fired someone for having a cartridge in a vehicle on a company parking lot.
It is my understanding that a few states have overturned these policies and said a firearm in a personal vehicle is ok and companies cannot prohibit it. Can't name them off the top of my head but Google is your friend. Stating the obvious, Maryland is not one of these states.

 

[hvymax]

OK we have a PA potential(at least)CCW holder who works in MD but also does business in Va/WV. Company rules rule. But if they never find out who cares. We had a thread about travelling in MD to get to states where our CCW's are recognized but any officer can and probably will arrest them all and let the judge sort em out.

 

[MDGolom]

Further clarifications:

4) I am a system administrator. I regularly have to make trips to other stores throughout MD and VA. On any given day I can leave PA and go to the office in MD, and then leave MD and go through WV to get to a location in VA.

Company's policy or not, the problem is your destination is Maryland. Since your destination is Maryland, you're bound by our archaic laws. You would need to comply with one of the exemptions in 4-203(b) to have the handgun in your car. As a CCW permit holder in PA, you simply can't lock up the handgun in the trunk and come into Maryland (unless you're passing through which falls under FOPA), or going to the range.

Again this in only my interpretation of the laws and I'm not a lawyer. I'm sure you'll get 15 more responses and even more different opinions.

 

[boricuamaximus]

You car is your property. Do as you wish.
Your employer's location is his location. Abide by his rules.
If you're going accross state lines remember FOPA applies.

Personally, if you're employer said no weapons it might be for a reason. Let's say all your customer sites are a no-no for weapons. I personally, would decline to carry if I am on the clock. The drama is not worth it and jobs are becoming a thing of the past really quick.

 

[MDGolom]

If you're going accross state lines remember FOPA applies.

For FOPA to apply, you need the to have the ability to "possess and carry" in the destination. Since he doesn't have that right in the state of Maryland, no FOPA.