Building 14" M4

[300RUM]

I'm building another Ar. I have the lower, my wife wants a 14" M4.

I plan on ordering one and then welding or pinning the flash hider.

My question/worry is, will I be in violation ordering and possessing a SBR before it's a fixed 16".

 

[Kevp]

To be safe, order the upper with the flash suppressor already pinned/welded since you already have the lower. There are plenty of really good places that will do it like Bravo Company or MSTN.

 

[mikec]

I believe if you have any AR lowers, then the answer would be yes. Will a vendor ship a 14" barrel without A) approved SBR paperwork or B) them welding/pinning a 2" FH on it?

Why do you want to do the FH yourself? If you mess up, you would have to send the barrel out for refinishing, buy a complete barrel and save the grief.

 

[Markp]

I'm building another Ar. I have the lower, my wife wants a 14" M4.

I plan on ordering one and then welding or pinning the flash hider.

My question/worry is, will I be in violation ordering and possessing a SBR before it's a fixed 16".

Here is the deal on this, and it's pretty straight forward.

1. If you do not possess a pistol or SBR lower, but do possess a rifle lower and you possess a 14" upper, you will be in constructive possession of an SBR. This is a BAD thing.

2. If you attach a 14" upper to a rifle lower, you are in possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. This is a VERY BAD thing.

3. If you possess a pistol or SBR lower, you can possess the 14" upper provided it is attached to the pistol or SBR lower (and paper work matches) or if the upper is not attached to anything.

So what to do if you only have rifle lowers?

1. You could let someone hold ALL of your rifle lowers until you permanently affix the muzzle attachment to the upper.

2. You could let someone else hold the upper until it has been appropriately gunsmithed and the muzzle attachment has been permanently attached to the upper, resulting in a > 16" barrel.

3. File a form 1. You can't be in constructive possession if you can prove intent to follow the law. A properly submitted form 1 would be evidence of intent to remain legal. Constructive possession can only be supported if it can be proven that you intended to violate the law.

It works like this... if the only configuration you can put together is ILLEGAL, then you are assumed to be engaged in ILLEGAL activity. If you can either assemble the weapon in a legal configuration or show otherwise that you intended to follow the law, it would be difficult to assert that you were intending to violate the law.

Ordering the upper does not put you in violation.
Possessing both at the same time without modifying the 14" upper to be greater than 16" does put you in violation.
If you don't have both the upper and lower in your physical possession, you are ok... Weld it up and retrieve your lower.

Mark

 

[Markp]

I believe if you have any AR lowers, then the answer would be yes. Will a vendor ship a 14" barrel without A) approved SBR paperwork or B) them welding/pinning a 2" FH on it?

Why do you want to do the FH yourself? If you mess up, you would have to send the barrel out for refinishing, buy a complete barrel and save the grief.

Mike,

With all due respect.

If I have 3 AR lowers, one of which is a registered SBR, one of which is a pistol lower, one of which is a rifle lower, and I order a 7.5" upper. Are you saying that I am now violating the law?

I think you're wrong... I can have as many upper and lowers that I want, as long as I can configure the parts in a legal configuration and have not assembled them in violation of the law, I should be legal. There is no intent to violate the law.

I think you have it wrong... I am no more in violation of the law than a person who owns a mossberg 500 and a hacksaw.

Mark

 

[clandestine]

We add a blind exposed pin to people with SBR uppers, and we cut a small recess on the SBR lower.

This modification prevents any SBR type upper from being installed on a NON Registered-SBR lower

We can put the pins in other places for AR pistol uppers so they will only work on "Pistol" lowers.

I would never own a SBR type upper and another lower that could accept one. BATFE can burn you BAD, if they want to.

 

[clandestine]

I'm building another Ar. I have the lower, my wife wants a 14" M4.

I plan on ordering one and then welding or pinning the flash hider.

My question/worry is, will I be in violation ordering and possessing a SBR before it's a fixed 16".

Have you pinned one before? If so youll be fine but if you havent and its not to BATFE specs then it could be bad if its not right.

 

[Markp]

We add a blind exposed pin to people with SBR uppers, and we cut a small recess on the SBR lower.

This modification prevents any SBR type upper from being installed on a NON Registered-SBR lower

We can put the pins in other places for AR pistol uppers so they will only work on "Pistol" lowers.

I would never own a SBR type upper and another lower that could accept one. BATFE can burn you BAD, if they want to.

That is certainly an obvious way of proving intent. Actually it would be better to place a pin in the lower that prevents non-modified uppers of any type from being installed. If the lower can only accept modified long uppers and can under NO circumstances accept a standard upper (short or long) then it is clear that the intent is to prevent any upper other than the matched upper from being attached.

I think though that the additional pins are going too far. Labeling the upper should be sufficient at the most.

Reason: Let's say I own common AR tools (e.g. barrel wrench, $19.95 anywhere.) What is to stop me from simply unscrewing the barrel from one upper and placing it on another upper?

NOTHING. You can switch barrels in a matter of minutes... far less time than what the ATF would consider "readily restorable" to NFA status.

I realize that we are on the edge here... but the question of where the line is, is important when the penalties are so harsh for being wrong. Unfortunately or fortunately for us, the AR is like Lego's for guns... too many permutations and ease in interchange of parts makes it an easy target.

Mark

 

[travistheone]

Same with a short barrel shotgun. If I had a 14" 870 barrel, in a matter of a minute it could be on any other 870.

 

[Ab_Normal]

First off, what kind of FH are you going to put on a 14" barrel? You would need a 14.5" or 14.7 " to use one of the A2 cage designs.

Secondly, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that since the OP has already declared his intent of making a legal 16" barrel - as long as he jumps on the drill press and welder as soon as the barrel is delivered he should be OK. YMMV

 

[300RUM]

Thank all for the input. I think if I go this route I will get one already pinned. I already have the lower sitting here and would not want to risk arguing with the BATFE on my intentions.

P.S. I meant 14.5 " barrel