Battle rifle - M1A, FAL, or PTR-91

[browning guy]

You are a cruel master lord chad. At least I won't go like you covered in latex
And lube surrounded by spent .40 brass.

 

[monsternav]

AIM Surplus has CMMG 308 rifles for 1449.00

First one on the list here:

http://www.cmmginc.com/category_s/1517.htm

 

[lkenefic]

I voted M1A, but I think it depends on your primary use. If it's for a pure battle rifle, I think the FAL ("the right arm of the free world") has a proven track record in terms of years of service and theaters of operation. If you want something a bit more versatile in terms of scope mounts and that could fit into a sniper role, the M1A, I think, would be superior. I've owned both at one time or another and liked each although I do have a particular fondness for the walnut stock M1A...

 

[Scott7891]

All three are good choices. What is your primary motivator?

If you are on a budget I would go G3. Like others said mags are dirt cheap and parts are easy to find. Since genuine milspec H&K parts are built to the same specs all parts should be interchangeable.

For ergonomics and easier to clean/disassemble as well as international nostalgia go for the FAL.

For domestic nostalgia and excellent accuracy go for the M1A.

 

[AwesomeBill]

Let's see...

The only reason that the G3 / hk91 exists is that Germany was denied a license to build their own FALs. So, they had to re-import the CETME design and come up with a second-best choice. Silver medal all the way. I like the design on paper, but have you ever actually fired one? The ergonomics are abysmal. It's a gun that hates its user, and I'm not talking recoil either.

The FAL was adopted by 93 countries, and by all accounts the T48 "won" the US trials. Yeah, but the Johnson out-performed the Garand in every aspect too, except for Military politics. So, 2 countries adopted the m14, and seeing as how 1 of them was Taiwan, lets be honest and call it 1 country. I'll be honest - I have a total American Man Crush on the m14 / m1a, but the FAL is a generation ahead in every aspect. My Garand is a pretty good fill in for my Patriotic Rifle Needs. Apple Pie.

The actual AR-10 sucked donkey d*ck. I'm not talking about the current "AR-10" weapons that are a stretched AR-15. They are just like AR-15s. Quality builds kick ass, and junk is junk. I'll be putting together some AR 308s post Oct. Will be a fun project to put them side by side with a 308 bolt gun and see how far we can go.

So, FAL fan boy vote here. I like to joke that the modern AR's ergonomics are almost as good as the FAL's. If only they would have used a proper left-side non-reciprocating charger. Is the average AR more accurate than the average FAL? Yup. Is the FAL (and for that matter the G3 and M14) minute-of-bad-dude accurate out to realistic engagement distances? Absolutely. Plus, the 7.62 NATO will still have a punch when it hits out there . Sorry, I just love to tweak the nose of AR fan boys.

OK, this got long and rambling. And now I have a MBR boner.

 

[lkenefic]

And now I have a MBR boner.

Things we didn't need to know...

 

[sailskidrive]

I've owned all three, including an actual Hk91, and would have to agree with Eros these are all dated designs. My FAL was minute of Volkswagen accurate at 300 yards, and the Hk91/PTRs are about as heavy as a VW. The PTR's goofy polymer lower receiver really ducks the sonkey compared to the original Hk lower. I still have a M1A and will probably hold on to it for nostalgia; if forced to pick one of the three it would be my choice solely for that reason.

If the socialist iron curtain wasn't ready to drop on October 1st I would suggest spending your dinero on a SCAR or LR308/SR25 patterned rifle instead.

 

[AwesomeBill]

Things we didn't need to know...

Look, MBR boners or, as some would call them, Battle Rifle Woodies, are the sign of a Healthy Red Blooded American Man. Only a Frenchman wouldn't pop a chubby if someone handed him a Garand.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go harass my wife...

 

[AwesomeBill]

Here's a rather humorous look at the subject. Been around the net for years, and I'm sure it's been posted to MDS more than once, but still funny!

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2009/12/30/pros-and-cons-of-possible-shtf-rifle-choices/

 

[trbon8r]

The FAL was adopted by 93 countries, and by all accounts the T48 "won" the US trials. Yeah, but the Johnson out-performed the Garand in every aspect too, except for Military politics. So, 2 countries adopted the m14, and seeing as how 1 of them was Taiwan, lets be honest and call it 1 country. I'll be honest - I have a total American Man Crush on the m14 / m1a, but the FAL is a generation ahead in every aspect.

The only problem with this theory is that the T48 FAL was less accurate than the T44 which eventually became the M14. It was also less reliable than the T44, and had a higher rate of parts breakage during testing. The testing data is out there for anyone to see and is a matter of public record. If losing to the M14 in reliability, accuracy, and parts breakage is considered winning the competition, I'd hate to see what constitutes failure. In the end both rifles were deemed suitable for adoption, but ultimately the M14 won.

The M14 was adopted by the most powerful military on the planet. I don't really care what a bunch of Euros or 3rd world banana republics use. As far as the M14 not being a sales success abroad, it was a product of the U.S. Armory system, and was never designed to be exported. It was expensive to manufacture and America did it because we could where other countries chose a cheaper alternative. The best rifle won, and the rest is sour grapes.

In the end both rifles will work just fine and get the job done. Pick the one you like best.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

.223 exists so they could let women and gays in the military.

When did you enlist?

 

[tinydata]

Let's see...

The only reason that the G3 / hk91 exists is that Germany was denied a license to build their own FALs. So, they had to re-import the CETME design and come up with a second-best choice. Silver medal all the way. I like the design on paper, but have you ever actually fired one? The ergonomics are abysmal. It's a gun that hates its user, and I'm not talking recoil either.

The FAL was adopted by 93 countries, and by all accounts the T48 "won" the US trials. Yeah, but the Johnson out-performed the Garand in every aspect too, except for Military politics. So, 2 countries adopted the m14, and seeing as how 1 of them was Taiwan, lets be honest and call it 1 country. I'll be honest - I have a total American Man Crush on the m14 / m1a, but the FAL is a generation ahead in every aspect. My Garand is a pretty good fill in for my Patriotic Rifle Needs. Apple Pie.

The actual AR-10 sucked donkey d*ck. I'm not talking about the current "AR-10" weapons that are a stretched AR-15. They are just like AR-15s. Quality builds kick ass, and junk is junk. I'll be putting together some AR 308s post Oct. Will be a fun project to put them side by side with a 308 bolt gun and see how far we can go.

So, FAL fan boy vote here. I like to joke that the modern AR's ergonomics are almost as good as the FAL's. If only they would have used a proper left-side non-reciprocating charger. Is the average AR more accurate than the average FAL? Yup. Is the FAL (and for that matter the G3 and M14) minute-of-bad-dude accurate out to realistic engagement distances? Absolutely. Plus, the 7.62 NATO will still have a punch when it hits out there . Sorry, I just love to tweak the nose of AR fan boys.

OK, this got long and rambling. And now I have a MBR boner.

How many of those 93 countries could have claimed a larger/better military than Taiwan? Just because it is shunned by the UN does not disqualify it as a nation with a military.

The only thing I think is superior on the FAL is the fact that the stock isn't as critical to accuracy. But there are fibreglass M14 stocks for a reason, so I don't think that's a huge advantage.

I've fired the civilian FAL and own the M1A- even if it weren't for the M14 being a good old American design, I find the M14 a lot more comfortable to shoot. None of the Vietnam veterans I met have spoken ill of the M14- plenty, however, have cursed the replacement that was a "generation ahead" as you put it.

Both the FAL and M14/M1A are fine rifles that really don't seem to have a definite advantage- kind of like the Arisaka vs. Kar98K vs. M1903 vs. Mosin debate- you wouldn't be totally outclassed choosing any of of those (at least until the M1 shows up!)

 

[DarthZed]

I have a PTR and an FAL. You can't go wrong with either. The FAL has much better ergos, imo. The PTR is marginally more accurate, and has much cheaper mags. As others have stated, the PTR's charging handle is a pain to manipulate, and there is no bolt-hold-open on the last round. However, its mags are easier to insert (no rock-and-lock), and the release button is easier to manipulate than the FAL's little toggle. The PTR does seem to shoot softer than the FAL, but then it is quite a bit heavier with the period scope and wooden stock. (The Retractable stock in the first pic is hard on the shoulder, and you get no cheek weld when using it with the scope, so it has been retired. ). Forced to make a choice, I'd go with the FAL. It just feels like a better quality firearm. The materials and workmanship just "feel" better than the stamped steel upper/plastic lower of the PTR.

 

[LeadSled1]

For more money, LE901 for versatility. You will be able to buy it and build 5.56 uppers for it post 10/1 and also 7.62 x 39 with AK mags. For less money M&P 10. Both shoot 1 MOA. I'm a M14/M1A guy but I am liking these two new guns.

 

[Pinecone]

You will be able to buy it and build 5.56 uppers for it post 10/1

Are you SURE about this?

 

[sailskidrive]

Are you SURE about this?

Ah yes, the El Camino of the AR world...

 

[BradMacc82]

Ah yes, the El Camino of the AR world...

Now THAT'S funny!!

 

[sfchoffman]

I owned a HK-91, great rifle. I shot and qualified expert with a L1A1 when training with the British Army and currently own a NM M1A..They are all great, and if I could I would own all of them....I would only give the edge to the M1a because it's good ole american steel....

 

[Pinecone]

WRT to accuracy with the FAL, there are FALs and there are FALs.

If you can find one, the Belgian made FN FAL Match is a pretty fine shooting rifle.

 

[aquaman]

The only problem with this theory is that the T48 FAL was less accurate than the T44 which eventually became the M14. It was also less reliable than the T44, and had a higher rate of parts breakage during testing. The testing data is out there for anyone to see and is a matter of public record. If losing to the M14 in reliability, accuracy, and parts breakage is considered winning the competition, I'd hate to see what constitutes failure. In the end both rifles were deemed suitable for adoption, but ultimately the M14 won.

The M14 was adopted by the most powerful military on the planet. I don't really care what a bunch of Euros or 3rd world banana republics use. As far as the M14 not being a sales success abroad, it was a product of the U.S. Armory system, and was never designed to be exported. It was expensive to manufacture and America did it because we could where other countries chose a cheaper alternative. The best rifle won, and the rest is sour grapes.

In the end both rifles will work just fine and get the job done. Pick the one you like best.

The testing where the parts broke was cold weather, the original design of the FAL was an intermediate cartridge. To deal with the freezing parts they opened the gas ports and things broke. Eventually things were sorted out. rumor is that the Army let Springfield armory alter their guns so they would perform better. I would not be surprised if this were true, the same people tried to sabotage the M16 in the cold weather testing.

The M14 is just another krag jorgensen but since its 'merican it has to be better than everything else