Ar-15 Regulated Transfer Maximum wait period?

[dzlfarmboy]

I purchased a Rem R-15 and I filled the paper work out on Feb 17th and most people I know say it's usually 10 day wait for MSP check and that what the FFL said it usually is 10 days to but it's day 15 and he still has not recieved the MSP ok'd paper work. Is there a maximum amout of days that it has to be released by?

Where are my FFL dealers?

Thanks

 

[Brychan]

I would say something is amiss, I just picked up 2 revolvers yesterday afternoon that the paperwork had been sent in on Feb 23, (first time I've had the paperwork back in 7 days)

Has your dealer checked on this?

 

[Ab_Normal]

I believe it can be released on the 8th full day (maybe 8th business day) by the seller.

 

[E.Shell]

I believe it can be released on the 8th full day (maybe 8th business day) by the seller.

8th business day (excludes Sundays and holidays), IF the seller knows the law and is willing to follow the law's protections on his client's behalf.

 

[Ab_Normal]

8th business day (excludes Sundays and holidays), IF the seller knows the law and is willing to follow the law's protections on his client's behalf.

I knew it was something like that. I knew it was basically 10 days max. I also realize the delicate balance between the buyer/seller/MSP. There is no reason why this seller shouldn't be on the horn with MSP at 15 days.

 

[dzlfarmboy]

Well I bought it from buds gun shop and he did the transfer. Just got off the phone with MSP and they said it was completed on the 25th and should of been mailed out after that from pikesville MD I believe. didn't think mailing any mail within state took more than 1 day.

 

[rob-cubed]

I would put the thumbscrews on the guy. He can legally release it to you at this point, though not all FFLs are comfortable doing so. There's also the possibility he didn't submit paperwork immediately and is simply blaming the MSP for the extra delay... the guy I use does it part-time and he can forget to call stuff in, or will wait until he has a bunch of paperwork and do it all at once.

 

[pumperp5]

Mine was 7 days exactly. Just last week.

 

[Ab_Normal]

I would put the thumbscrews on the guy.

Most dealers would rather lose 1 customer than risk their FFL. I don't really blame them but this one could be a little more diligent.

 

[wjt1169]

If MSP approved the paperwork, that means MSP put it in the mail back to your dealer. He needs to have that in front of him before he can turn it over to you. You need to sign the form (MSP 77R) upon receiving the weapon.

Your dealer needs to call and ask MSP what to do when the form is lost in the mail. I cannot see how he can turn over the firearm to you without the paperwork...no matter how many days its been.

 

[Slimjim]

If MSP approved the paperwork, that means MSP put it in the mail back to your dealer. He needs to have that in front of him before he can turn it over to you. You need to sign the form (MSP 77R) upon receiving the weapon.

Your dealer needs to call and ask MSP what to do when the form is lost in the mail. I cannot see how he can turn over the firearm to you without the paperwork...no matter how many days its been.

Not exactly. After 8 days the firearm can be released to you. The dealer has to call the MSP and get some info from them before releasing it though;

 

[Ab_Normal]

Not exactly. After 8 days the firearm can be released to you. The dealer has to call the MSP and get some info from them before releasing it though;

They started enforcing this many years ago when the MSP was a few weeks behind on the paperwork. Effectively restricting our 2A rights AND violating the law.

 

[dzlfarmboy]

Well this sucks big time.

 

[Russ D]

It's pretty funny how they don't "Really" have to follow the law, but if we have one little thing amiss they can jail us for the rest of our lives. The constitution says "Shall Not Be Infringed". Seems we are all pretty infringed in MD.

 

[wjt1169]

Not exactly. After 8 days the firearm can be released to you. The dealer has to call the MSP and get some info from them before releasing it though;

How does the dealer pass his annual MSP inspection without properly filed and signed paperwork on the weapon?

 

[E.Shell]

...He needs to have that in front of him before he can turn it over to you....

Wrong.

First, it is protection that is built into the law that allows the transfer to take place in the absence of receiving back MSP non-disapproval. This prevents a defacto ban on purchases due to police (read "government") inaction or resistance, intentional or not.

I don't have the time right this minute to find a link for you, but if you read the law you will see your statement above is not correct.

Then, there are a large number of Maryland dealers who DO release the gun on the 8th day. It IS perfectly legal, after all, and I spend my money with my own FFL who does this.

I have never done a transfer at a local MSP barracks in which I was not instructed that I was free to take possession, or transfer the gun to the buyer after the waiting period, whether the paperwork is back or not.

 

[wjt1169]

Wrong.

First, it is protection that is built into the law that allows the transfer to take place in the absence of receiving back MSP non-disapproval. This prevents a defacto ban on purchases due to police (read "government") inaction or resistance, intentional or not.

I don't have the time right this minute to find a link for you, but if you read the law you will see your statement above is not correct.

Then, there are a large number of Maryland dealers who DO release the gun on the 8th day. It IS perfectly legal, after all, and I spend my money with my own FFL who does this.

I have never done a transfer at a local MSP barracks in which I was not instructed that I was free to take possession, or transfer the gun to the buyer after the waiting period, whether the paperwork is back or not.

First off...let me just say I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I'm asking a real question that I'm hoping a very experienced dealer will answer.

Here are the problems as I see them if the dealer has not received the paperwork back from MSP:

1. The MSP check has to come back "not disapproved" for the weapon to be turned over on the 8th day. This, I assume, can be resolved with a phone call to MSP to find out that the buyer was not disapproved.

2. The dealer must record the NICS NTN number in his A&D book. In Maryland, MSP does the NICS check and obtains the NTN number. MSP then writes this number on the MSP 77R paperwork -- which in our scenario, is lost in transit. Federal Law mandates that the FFL must record the NICS number in his A&D book and on the 4473 form. I imagine that a new NICS check must be made if the paperwork is lost. The FFL would fail his ATF inspection if he turned over the weapon without the NICS check and jeopardize his Federal Firearms License.

3. The MSP 77R-2 requires a dated signature the day the weapon is actually turned over to the buyer. Once this is signed, the dealer gives a pink copy to the buyer; sends the white (original copy) back to MSP; and is required to file the yellow copy. Without this signature, MSP considers it a failed transaction. During the dealer's annual MSP inspection, this would be considered a failure...there by putting the dealer's Maryland Regulated Firearms License in jeopardy.

So, as I see it, the dealer is put in a difficult situation here. YES, absolutely, the dealer should call MSP and get some questions answered ASAP on behalf of his customer. However, as the buyer, I don't see how you can ask your dealer to jeopardize his licenses (i.e. his livelihood) to ensure you get you regulated firearm on time.

Maybe an experienced dealer can clarify this issue some for us.

 

[novus collectus]

8th business day (excludes Sundays and holidays), IF the seller knows the law and is willing to follow the law's protections on his client's behalf.

The law and regulation just says "days" and does not say anything about business days.

.10 Sale or Transfer of Regulated Firearms Without Approval.

A. If a dealer or person does not receive a notification of a hold for an open disposition of a criminal proceeding or disapproval within the 7-day waiting period between submission of the application and a purchase, rental, or transfer, the dealer or person may sell, rent, or transfer the regulated firearm if all applicable provisions of Public Safety Article, Title 5, Subtitle 1, Annotated Code of Maryland, have been complied with. The application to purchase or transfer a regulated firearm form shall be stamped "not disapproved" to show that action was taken by the State Police if a disapproval was not warranted.

 

[Billcw]

First off...let me just say I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I'm asking a real question that I'm hoping a very experienced dealer will answer.

Here are the problems as I see them if the dealer has not received the paperwork back from MSP:

1. The MSP check has to come back "not disapproved" for the weapon to be turned over on the 8th day. This, I assume, can be resolved with a phone call to MSP to find out that the buyer was not disapproved.

2. The dealer must record the NICS NTN number in his A&D book. In Maryland, MSP does the NICS check and obtains the NTN number. MSP then writes this number on the MSP 77R paperwork -- which in our scenario, is lost in transit. Federal Law mandates that the FFL must record the NICS number in his A&D book and on the 4473 form. I imagine that a new NICS check must be made if the paperwork is lost. The FFL would fail his ATF inspection if he turned over the weapon without the NICS check and jeopardize his Federal Firearms License.

3. The MSP 77R-2 requires a dated signature the day the weapon is actually turned over to the buyer. Once this is signed, the dealer gives a pink copy to the buyer; sends the white (original copy) back to MSP; and is required to file the yellow copy. Without this signature, MSP considers it a failed transaction. During the dealer's annual MSP inspection, this would be considered a failure...there by putting the dealer's Maryland Regulated Firearms License in jeopardy.

So, as I see it, the dealer is put in a difficult situation here. YES, absolutely, the dealer should call MSP and get some questions answered ASAP on behalf of his customer. However, as the buyer, I don't see how you can ask your dealer to jeopardize his licenses (i.e. his livelihood) to ensure you get you regulated firearm on time.

Maybe an experienced dealer can clarify this issue some for us.

thank you

 

[s14]

Pretty sure wtj nailed it.