AOW questions

[Omega21]

I've heard a few times now that if you put a forward grip on a SP5K (new version of the SP89) that it becomes a "AOW". I'm confused by this because the definition of AOW as shown in the FAQ section here specifically excludes pistols with rifled barrels as shown below. Can someone please clarify? Also, is AOW subject to the 29" OAL rule in Maryland?


“any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed, or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.”

 

[BadLuckAintNoCrime]

I believe that it gets reclassified as an AOW because pistols, by the ATF's definition, are fired with one hand and a rifle has a stock. With a VFG, the pistol is now intended to be fired with both hands so by definition is not a pistol or rifle. As far as overall length, I am not sure. I am pretty sure there is no minimum length but rather a maximum length for an AOW. In regards to MD law, it says a rifle has to meet the 26" rule, and thus an AOW not being a rifle would not have to meet that rule.

 

[Omega21]

So I could order a HK SP5K, put a vertical hand grip on it, submit it for AOW status, pay the AOW tax and then walk away with it once it's approved? No worries about the 29" OAL because it's not an SBR? And because it's not a pistol (it's a AOW) I don't need to worry about it being approved on the Handgun Roster.

 

[dontpanic]

So I could order a HK SP5K, put a vertical hand grip on it, submit it for AOW status, pay the AOW tax and then walk away with it once it's approved? No worries about the 29" OAL because it's not an SBR? And because it's not a pistol (it's a AOW) I don't need to worry about it being approved on the Handgun Roster.

You cannot do that. A FFL 07 can. You can have a manufacturing FFL do this for you. I have no idea who would do it though.

Just for clarification. You can put a VFG on a pistol >=26" without a tax stamp.

BTW. I really, really want one of these.

 

[Hawkeye]

So I could order a HK SP5K, put a vertical hand grip on it, submit it for AOW status, pay the AOW tax and then walk away with it once it's approved? No worries about the 29" OAL because it's not an SBR? And because it's not a pistol (it's a AOW) I don't need to worry about it being approved on the Handgun Roster.

Or you could just wait until they're on the roster.

 

[swinokur]

MD law was changed so SBR's don't have to be on the roster any longer.

 

[Hawkeye]

MD law was changed so SBR's don't have to be on the roster any longer.

Yes, but the SP5K is a pistol.

 

[swinokur]

point taken sir

 

[Omega21]

So the issue is that
1. I have some info from one of our IPs that this is likely to get disapproved on the roster, if it even makes it to the board because it's a copy of an MP5K. Thus, I'm happy to wait till it gets approved, but if it doesn't I want alternatives.

2. First alternative is to SBR it. I already submitted the eForm 1. Issue her is that it's going to be a pain/silly to bring this to 29" OAL. I've read the options discussed in other threads in this section.

3.Second alternative is to AOW it. I think this means that I would have a manufacturing FFL / 07 make it for me by adding the VFG to the pistol. Then we do paperwork once he gets it approved as an AOW and transfer it into my possession after ATF approval of such transfer. This seems to be a good course of action because AOW tax is $5 and I don't need to go through creative ways of meeting the 29" OAL to stay legal.

Thoughts?

 

[dontpanic]

To make an AOW the tax is $200. It is $5 to transfer it. Any FFL manufacturing it for you will charge you the whole $200.

 

[Combloc]

Yes, but the SP5K is a pistol.

When I bought an MKE AT94K, it was not on the roster so I couldn't have it. What I did was have it shipped to a Class II. We then filed a form 4 to make it an SBR (no 29" nonsense at that time) and, when the paperwork came back, I took it home. To this day, I don't think the AT94K is on the roster. The Z5K and it's essentially the same thing though.

 

[jawn]

An SOT manufacturer can file a Form 2 and make the SP5K an AOW. Then they can sell the AOW to you on a Form 4. Form 4's for AOWs are $5.

An individual who owns a pistol can file a Form 1 to make their pistol an AOW. ALL Form 1s are $200.

 

[Combloc]

As for AOW, putting a forward grip on an MP5K, whatever the manufacturer wants to call it, DOES make it an AOW. No question, no debate, no exceptions.

 

[Omega21]

To make an AOW the tax is $200. It is $5 to transfer it. Any FFL manufacturing it for you will charge you the whole $200.

An SOT manufacturer can file a Form 2 and make the SP5K an AOW. Then they can sell the AOW to you on a Form 4. Form 4's for AOWs are $5.

An individual who owns a pistol can file a Form 1 to make their pistol an AOW. ALL Form 1s are $200.

So the SOT files the Form 2 after adding the forward grip and pays a $200 tax. He then will of course charge me the $200 which is what I'll pay to SBR it. Once approved, they then transfer the AOW to me on a Form 4 with a $5 tax. I'm assuming that the Form 4 actually is done with a local Maryland FFL? So I'll pay a $100-$200 transfer fee for NFA item with a local FFL too... Do I have this right?

Thank you guys for helping me figure this out.

 

[Pinecone]

But if you cannot buy the pistol, you cannot convert it into an SBR on a Form 1.

And 07 FFL will have to convert it, and then transfer it to you on a Form 4. $200 tax.

 

[smdub]

So the SOT files the Form 2 after adding the forward grip and pays a $200 tax. ... Do I have this right?

No. FFL07s don't pay the $200 manufacture tax for AOWs (or SBRs). There is no double taxation for manufacture AFAIK. Of course, their time/effort isn't free so they will still likely charge you some amount to do it in addition to the $5 you have to pay the feds for the transfer.

 

[erwos]

No. FFL07s don't pay the $200 manufacture tax for AOWs (or SBRs). There is no double taxation for manufacture AFAIK. Of course, their time/effort isn't free so they will still likely charge you some amount to do it in addition to the $5 you have to pay the feds for the transfer.

The FFLs I've worked with have just charged the usual NFA transfer fee plus the engraving fee, provided that it's a simple modification (like replacing a handguard via a couple screws, or bolting on a VFG).

 

[jawn]

No. FFL07s don't pay the $200 manufacture tax for AOWs (or SBRs). There is no double taxation for manufacture AFAIK. Of course, their time/effort isn't free so they will still likely charge you some amount to do it in addition to the $5 you have to pay the feds for the transfer.

This. Their yearly SOT fees cover this.

 

[Omega21]

That's what the SOT told me too when we spoke yesterday. He doesn't need to pay 200 to make the AOW, so I just have to pay the $5 AOW tax on the receiving end, plus I have to pay the NFA transfer fee with the local FFL ($125-150).

 

[Krysta]

I thought about doing that route with an MP5K last fall but I heard from a Maryland NFA dealer that MDSP wouldn't allow it to go through because they were calling it a copy-cat of the banned MP5K. Last I heard it was still going through the court system. I would check with an NFA gun shop on this before you start anything. Just FYI.