Another 1911 question: SA Recoil Spring Plug for the field

[GDGeorge]

My Springfield Arms Loaded 1911 requires an Allen wrench to remove the recoil spring plug. I suspect this makss it more accurate but I don't like the notion for field carry. I'd like to be able to swap it out for traditional one. Has anyone here done that? I assume I can order parts from any of the big firearms sites, but what, specifically do I need to buy?

Thanks!
Jerry

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[GDGeorge]

Follow up. Found this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1485540296/ed-brown-recoil-spring-plug-1911-government

Looks like I can do a drop in replacement as long as I replace the guide rod as well. I guess I'm not the only one who doesn't necessarily like the two piece plug. Is there anyone here who has done this?

Thanks,
J

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[inkd]

Follow up. Found this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1485540296/ed-brown-recoil-spring-plug-1911-government

Looks like I can do a drop in replacement as long as I replace the guide rod as well. I guess I'm not the only one who doesn't necessarily like the two piece plug. Is there anyone here who has done this?

Thanks,
J

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Yep. All you need is a one piece guide rod and recoil spring plug. You can use your stock recoil spring.

I like the one piece guide rods with a hole drilled in them. I take a paper clip and retract the slide, insert the paper clip in the guide rod hole and let the slide come forward till the clip stops it. Then line up the slide stop with the take down notch. Remove slide stop and slide the slide off the frame.

Your recoil spring will remain compressed and you can remove it as one unit with the guide rod.

Remove the recoil plug by pushing it back towards the rear of the slide and removing it.

Now you can unlock the barrel and slide it forward a little bit to rotate the bushing for removal.

If you rotate the bushing while installed, over time it will wear the barrel to bushing fit.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...e-rod-with-recoil-spring-plug-1911-government

 

[RoadDawg]

Yep. All you need is a one piece guide rod and recoil spring plug. You can use your stock recoil spring.

I like the one piece guide rods with a hole drilled in them. I take a paper clip and retract the slide, insert the paper clip in the guide rod hole and let the slide come forward till the clip stops it. Then line up the slide stop with the take down notch. Remove slide stop and slide the slide off the frame.

Your recoil spring will remain compressed and you can remove it as one unit with the guide rod.

Remove the recoil plug by pushing it back towards the rear of the slide and removing it.

Now you can unlock the barrel and slide it forward a little bit to rotate the bushing for removal.

If you rotate the bushing while installed, over time it will wear the barrel to bushing fit.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...e-rod-with-recoil-spring-plug-1911-government

huh?

Then why do they make a bushing wrench and give specific disassembly instructions to do it that way?

Not an engineer... But I believe you would need to be rotating that bushing thousands and thousands of times to create any measurable wear.

 

[inkd]

huh?

Then why do they make a bushing wrench and give specific disassembly instructions to do it that way?

Not an engineer... But I believe you would need to be rotating that bushing thousands and thousands of times to create any measurable wear.

Because, my opinion, on a stock gun the fit is so crappy anyway it really doesn't make much of a difference. On the ones I built, you will absolutely wreck the fit in short order if you keep disassembling them by twisting the bushing on the barrel.

Using a guide rod with a pin hole also keeps the chances down of launching a recoil plug and spring since they are all captured together.

 

[RoadDawg]

Because, my opinion, on a stock gun the fit is so crappy anyway it really doesn't make much of a difference. On the ones I built, you will absolutely wreck the fit in short order if you keep disassembling them by twisting the bushing on the barrel.

Using a guide rod with a pin hole also keeps the chances down of launching a recoil plug and spring since they are all captured together.

The pinhole guide rod is used primarily on the smaller 3.5 inch pistols such as the RIA with no barrel bushing. The shorter barrel causes problems with the slide action on those pistols. So a standard style bushing is not really viable.

Here is what I mean...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V4lKlMO0uHw

I still prefer the original method. I've never launched a recoil spring cap yet.

 

[inkd]

The pinhole guide rod is used primarily on the smaller 3.5 inch pistols such as the RIA with no barrel bushing. The shorter barrel causes problems with the slide action on those pistols. So a standard style bushing is not really viable.

Here is what I mean...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V4lKlMO0uHw

I still prefer the original method. I've never launched a recoil spring cap yet.

I don't know about it being primarily used on smaller pistols. I don't work on them and won't work on them.

The method I use is the one I was taught by a master 1911 pistolsmith and a pistolsmith who built 1911's for Clark Custom before moving on to Hamilton Bowens shop, then taking the lead instructor position at Montgomery Community College.

If your method works, use it. Me, I'll stick to mine.

 

[inkd]

This is a link to a page of services for SDM fabricating. Scott is a hell of a pistolsmith. At the end of the page he comments about ruining the fit of a match grade bushing to barrel fit.

He is a fan of the two piece guide rods, which I am not, but that doesn't really matter.


http://www.sdmfabricating.com/Packages.html

 

[Magnumite]

While I understand the concept of wearing out a tightly fitted match bushing if it is turned with the pistol fully locked, I haven't experienced any loss of accuracy doing it on pistols with one piece full length guide rods. I also don't OCD clean my pistols after each use. And I've shot those guns alot. I've fitted bushings very tight and some barely needing a bushing wrench. For most applications a super tight bushing isn't needed.

Simple rule of thumb is if the pistol is a highly refined, high precision 1911, use a two piece flgr or the GI recoil setup and unlock the pistol slightly before turning the bushing.

 

[inkd]

While I understand the concept of wearing out a tightly fitted match bushing if it is turned with the pistol fully locked, I haven't experienced any loss of accuracy doing it on pistols with one piece full length guide rods. I also don't OCD clean my pistols after each use. And I've shot those guns alot. I've fitted bushings very tight and some barely needing a bushing wrench. For most applications a super tight bushing isn't needed.

Simple rule of thumb is if the pistol is a highly refined, high precision 1911, use a two piece flgr or the GI recoil setup and unlock the pistol slightly before turning the bushing.

Again, I don't know about a 2 piece full length guide rod being the rule of thumb but if it works for you and that's what you like, then go for it.

But when someone who has been building 1911's since the 80's for shooters who put thousands of rounds a week downrange tells me it's not a good idea to twist a bushing on a barrel, I listen.

 

[Magnumite]

The two piece allows the front section to be removed so the barrel may be unlocked to twist the bushing. If I want a FLGR on a super precise pistol that is what I go with. Otherwise I use a one piece FLGR.
As mentioned, it is degree of fit. Take a Kart bushing from an EZ Fit set. The ID is not true diameter, it is actually like a cloverleaf. Twisting that in full battery would essentially be camming the bushing around the barrel which is tilted in battery. Same as when the front rear and lower front of the bushing ID are relieved and tightly fit.
A few years back I actually turned a tight bushing ten times in a row to check this. It was well lubed and was fitted so it was bushing wrench tight in the slide then ID fitted so the action would not stop just short of battery with the pistol being held muzzle down and closed slowly (so the bushing wasn't slightly too tight, as occurs so often). I found evidence of lube wiped from rotary marks on the barrel where the bushing would fit against it. I repeated the same with a bushing not fit as tight but still no freeplay evident. There was no scrubbing evident.
As you, inkd, I will not contradict those with expertise and experience. That's where we learn from. What you say is valid.

For others, a FLGR does not contribute to accuracy. There are other advantages but accuracy is not one of them.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The way I interpeted the OP he wanted to go JMB style with non-full length guide rod and GI type spring plug.

 

[Magnumite]

True, and was indicated what was needed. Derail..sorry about that.

 

[GDGeorge]

Actually, I've been reading the thread with interest. My goal is to be able to field strip the handgun in the field with no tools. I'm still not sure that I understand the difference between the single or two piece guide rods.

This is a vanilla Springfield Loaded. It's a nice handgun, but it's not been accurized or souped up in any way. Despite this, it's more accurate than I am.

Which was should I go?

 

[pop-gunner]

My last SA Loaded I put a Kimber FL guide rod in it. The Kimber is a little shorter so you can depress the plug and remove it by hand. I also used a Kimber magazine release as it's a little longer than the SA. Then I put in standard slotted grip screws and ditched the Allen screws. Those changes gave me a pistol I could disassemble w/o any special tools.

 

[RoadDawg]

1911 Disassembly... No tools...

 

[Magnumite]

A two piece full length guide rod requires the front section of the rod to be unscrewed from and removed before removing the bushing. Many one piece full length guide rods are fitted so the bushing ma be turned in the usual manner with no extra steps nor tools. So now one needs to decide between the GI guide rod and plug or the one piece full length guide rod.

The 'purists' will tell you JMB designed it that way and he was right. But their guns also have magwells, match fit barrels and bushings, beavertail grip safeties...hmm what about JMB now? Some very informed people say they contrubute nothing to the function of the pistol.

Some very informed people will also say the one piece full length guide rod has credence. Some pistols are smoother with one. If you like a little extra weight out front to keep the pistol flatter (its relative) during recoil and run the gun a little faster the FLGR helps. I use both the GI and the full lebgth guide rod systems. Depends on the pistol's 'mission'. Gaming gun - the full length guide rod gets the nod. Serious pistol - GI, its just simpler. There are a couple which cross those general boundaries but for a specific reason on the specific guns.

 

[GDGeorge]

Thanks! That's clear and concise. The two piece is what it came with and I'm going to try the GI setup. This is probably going to wind up down tne road as a carry pistol and simple is good.

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