Ammunition against the ammunition encoding bill

[Norton]

It also give us ammo to use against any of these lobbists if they show up to speak in favor of this bill. Just have to have a list of names and how they are connected, and how they stand to profit. It would be nice if one of our reps would confirm that any of these lobbying agencies are involved.

I think even some of our usual foes in the legislature would object to such a blatant manipulation of public policy for financial gain.

 

[novus collectus]

More info on who is pushing these laws across all the states involved:


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=673330&page=3


Seattle company patents "serial numbers on bullets", hires law firm and lobbyists to promote idea simutaneously nationwide, stands to make huge profits on residuals from ammo manufacturers. Its a huge scam, and our lawmakers are buying into it.

Damnit, I knew something was up!!

 

[Norton]

Damnit, I knew something was up!!

Dude, we need you to go through their and collate all of that information. I'm swamped with conference stuff.

This is going to be good stuff for the hearings.

 

[novus collectus]

Dude, we need you to go through their and collate all of that information. I'm swamped with conference stuff.

This is going to be good stuff for the hearings.

I'll give it a shot, but this is what I got a gist of so far. A company called Ravenshforge that has a patent on putting studs on railings to prevent skateboarders from doing board tricks on them at malls and hotels has decided to expand operations.

They got a patent on serial numbering bullet bases with a laser just a year and a half ago.

They hired an infamous lobbiest that brags "He is well known for his ability to organize and manage multi-state and multi-national governmental affairs programs to pass legislation and budgets that create significant markets for his clients."

The company claims the cost to the consumer will be minimal eventually, but major for the companies initially because it will cost: "The cost to implement this system is substantial, but results in a small cost per bullet for the end users. There are several significant manufacturers of ammunition. Each one would have to purchase at least one, if not more; laser engraving machines and material handlers. We have received estimates that each set of equipment would cost $300,000 to $500,000."
So in other words they are probably selling their patented engraving machines too.......but here's the real kicker: "A licensing fee will also be applied to each bullet sold. However, since there are approximately 10 billion bullets sold in the United States alone each year, the equipment costs, once amortized over the number of bullets sold, are insignificant. There will also be administrative costs for the retailers. All of these costs will most likely be passed onto the purchaser, making this a system paid for by user fees."

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/ammunition/press-releases/90639/

Now I am mixing and confusing some things, but I gotta get out the door to go vote. I will try to make it more comprehensible later. Basically for each and every bullet sold in this country, this company will get paid a fee until the patent runs out in 18 years from now. This may be a multi billion dollar profit attempt and this does not include in foreign countries that pass these same laws.

 

[novus collectus]

Ok, so this is what the "group", Ammunition Accountability claims they are:

About Us

Ammunition Accountability is a newly forming group of ammunition coding technology supporters. Our group includes gun crime victims, industry representatives, law enforcement, public officials, public policy experts, and more. We are working together to pass legislation to make ammunition coding technology a reality.

this is what they are trying to do:

Help Pass the Ammunition Accountability Act

The 2008 Legislative session has begun, and the Ammunition Accountability Act is being introduced across the country. Below is a summary of legislation that has been introduced throughout the United States. As more states introduce legislation, we can help each other gain support and make ammunition coding technology a reality. You can help us pass legislation in your state. Contact us at act@ammunitionaccountability.com.

Sample Legislation: The Ammunition Accountability Act

California, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Mississippi, New York, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Washington.

ammunitionaccountability.com.

Someone on AR15.com looked up the company's phone number, and such, and discovered it was linked to another company which three or four years ago was proposing the idea That is where the quotes about the estimated costs to the manufacturers in my last post came from.

The guy on AR15.com discovered the address of the old company and the new company which hired the multistate lobbying firm is related to the company Ravensforge and is most likely one and the same company:

We also believe there needs to be further
independent, objective study of the technology and
its feasibility. As you may know, the National
Academy of Sciences is currently conducting a
feasibility study of "ballistics imaging." SAAMI
supported federal legislation introduced in the 107th
Congress calling for such a study, and we support
NAS's study. To our knowledge, the very limited
testing of this technology has been done primarily by
the company, Ravensforge ( www.ravensforge.com ), which
has a vested financial interest in the outcome of any
testing. In conducting what limited testing it did,
Ravensforge did not consult with any ammunition
manufacturer as to the feasibility, or lack thereof,
of incorporating its technology into the production
process and the impact it would have on the
manufacturer. The issue of whether the Legislature
would be creating a monopoly for Ravensforge must
also be considered. This appears to be a "sole
source" technology.

(page 24) http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bill/sen/sb_0351-0400/sb_357_cfa_20050425_143651_sen_comm.html

Ravensforge, the company that makes the anti-skateboarding item, is the company that owns the patent for microstamping. http://www1.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week49-old/OG/html/1313-1/US07143697-20061205.html

The user on AR15.com summed it up beautifully:

So these yoyo's made some bucks ion the Seattle Real Estate Market, fired up this "skateboard speedbump" company on the side, sold it off (or something), managed to get a patent on the idea of applying a serial number to something (wow, that's novel!) and retained a Seattle lawyer-***-lobbyist to try to weasel their proprietary idea into law, does that pretty much cover it?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=673330&page=4

 

[Norton]

Good stuff.

I'm making a flow chart of all of those connections.

The only thing I can't find is the link between these a-holes and Maryland.

I'm searching the campaign finance database on each of the bill's sponsors.

So far, no luck.

 

[novus collectus]

Good stuff.

I'm making a flow chart of all of those connections.

The only thing I can't find is the link between these a-holes and Maryland.

I'm searching the campaign finance database on each of the bill's sponsors.

So far, no luck.

Follow the lobbyist: (posted on AR15.com by poster Merril)

This lawyer/lobbyist is a strong Democratic supporter (no surprise there) and buddy of Cantwell

Also runs a tax-exempt LAW ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATORS OF WASHINGTON and has a history of anti legislation

LAW ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATORS OF WASHINGTON
(c/o TIM SCHELLBERG) PO BOX 1358
Tacoma, WA 98401-1358 Board of Trade * * * 06/1994

Here is the lobbying record of his old firm which includes:

1) Applied Biosystems $60,000 $40,000 $380,000
2) Sagem Morpho $40,000 $40,000 $340,000
3) Orchid Biosciences $40,000 $40,000 $140,000
4) World Boxing Association $40,000 $40,000 $100,000
5) Washington Association of Sheriffs & Police Chiefs $20,000 Less than $10,000 $80,000 Link
6) International Boxing Federation $40,000 $40,000 $80,000
7) Prepared Response $20,000 $20,000 $40,000

Other lobbyists in that firm

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=673330&page=4

 

[Jaybeez]

This site lets you look up the IRS 990's of non profit organizations:

http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/esearch.php


Ceasefire 2006:
http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/521/521230003/521230003_200606_990EO.pdf


ceasefire maryland education fund 2006:
http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/521/521624945/521624945_200606_990EZ.pdf

Top of page 5, part 3, question 1
"During the year, has the organization attempted to influence national, state or local legislation, including any attempt to influence public opinion on a legislative matter or referendum? ......"
The preparer Checked the box for "NO", that doesn't sound right to me, i thought all they did was spread propaganda to influence public opinion.

Part 3 line 28 of the regular CF 990, says they do those things. But they money they report only appears to go to their officers and Ceasefire education.

They stae later on in the 990 that they distributed "educational materials" to schools, and lectures about gun safety.

Part 3 line 28 of the regular CF 990, says they do those things. But they money they report only appears to go to their officers and Ceasefire education.


Now i dont know if Ceasefire and CF education fund are the same, but one lists the other on their 990's, and ceasefire made $2500 in political contribution in 2006

Go here to search for ceasefire:
http://mdelections.umbc.edu/campaign_finance/contributions1.php


I've been searching campaing contributions trying to find links, but i havent found much.

 

[Jaybeez]

http://mlis.state.md.us/2008RS/bills/hb/hb0517f.pdf
The maryland encoded ammo tax bill


http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation/Ammo Accountability - Sample Legislation.pdf

ACS's encode ammo tax bill sample for legislators to copy, they hold the patents of the encoding technology.


Both bills as so similar, as to be a direct copy. The idea for the bill in MD has to have come from the holder of the patent.

 

[Spot77]

http://mlis.state.md.us/2008RS/bills/hb/hb0517f.pdf
The maryland encoded ammo tax bill


http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation/Ammo Accountability - Sample Legislation.pdf

ACS's encode ammo tax bill sample for legislators to copy, they hold the patents of the encoding technology.


Both bills as so similar, as to be a direct copy. The idea for the bill in MD has to have come from the holder of the patent.

Now isn't THAT interesting?????

I wonder what kind of donation the bill's "author" (when I say author, I really mean the stooge that introduced it) is getting?

 

[Norton]

Now isn't THAT interesting?????

I wonder what kind of donation the bill's "author" (when I say author, I really mean the stooge that introduced it) is getting?

My question too. I, for the life of me, can not find the missing link between the patent holders, their marketing firm and Maryland.

There's a big gap there as far as a paper trail.

I even tried searching TN's campaign finance database.

I'll try some more tonight.

 

[epc3762]

Harford Conty Delegate Donna Stiffler's response to my letter.

Dear Mr. Cox, I am opposed to HB 517 and will surely vote against it should it reach the full floor of the House of Delegates. Not only does this interfere with our second amendment rights, it is yet another tax on an already over-taxed Maryland. Thank you for writing. Delegate Stifler

 

[smores]

Good job guys.... I'm following this but I'm so bogged down with school work and other issues I don't have the mental endurance to deal with this too.

These people are total douchebags. Wouldn't it be nice to have a whole bunch of money to influence public opinion? Man, I could enact all sorts of crazy laws! Oh, and have some buildings/museums/libraries/bridges/highways named after me...

 

[Jaybeez]

bumping this to the top of the front page, may be some new people viewing it today.

 

[Norton]

Looks like our letters and calls are being heard. Burns is launching a preemptive strike against our testimony based on the financial motives of the proponents of this bill:

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_...ID=878515&CategoryID=5768&show=localnews&om=1



http://tinyurl.com/3yep79


<snip?Nine state delegates from Baltimore City and another from Montgomery County, all Democrats, are co-sponsoring the bill.

It is scheduled for a hearing before the House Judiciary and Ways and
Means committees Tuesday, Feb. 26 at 1 p.m.

<snip>Burns said he had worked with Briahna Taylor, a Tacoma, Wash.,
legislative specialist, to draft the bill.

"We expect to have expert testimony from the state of Washington come
in on the hearing," Burns said.

Taylor is an employee of Gordon Thomas Honeywell Government Affairs, a
Tacoma-based lobbyist for the Seattle-based company Ammunition Coding
System, which provides the patent-pending technology for marking
bullets.

Taylor confirmed that she had worked with Burns and cited Russ Ford as
the technology expert for Ammunition Coding System.

Ford, who said he was a gun hobbyist, noted that the technology is not
intended to interfere with legal gun uses.



<snip>A single set of the equipment would cost between $300,000 and
$500,000, while an unspecified licensing fee for each bullet sold
would increase further the cost of doing business, according to the
Web site.<snip>

<snip>the tax would not apply to
federal, Maryland state or county governmental agencies, including law
enforcement agencies.<snip>

 

[Norton]

We've obviously got them a little scared because they are launching this PR campaign to try to take some of the "gotcha" out of the research that we've done on this.

They have obviously seen that our fellow shooters in other states have been using the same information and they need to counter it.

Remember that Taylor is a professional marketing person and knows exactly what she is doing.

 

[Spot77]

We've obviously got them a little scared because they are launching this PR campaign to try to take some of the "gotcha" out of the research that we've done on this.

They have obviously seen that our fellow shooters in other states have been using the same information and they need to counter it.

Remember that Taylor is a professional marketing person and knows exactly what she is doing.

Although I could be in the dark about it, but it seems like the ammo manufacturers are quiet about this.

I would think they'd have lobbyists in every state fighting this nonsense.

 

[Lambo]

Do our Friends in Annapolis have all updated Info?

 

[Jaybeez]

Looks like our letters and calls are being heard. Burns is launching a preemptive strike against our testimony based on the financial motives of the proponents of this bill:

Now they are admitting the connection between the patent holders and the bill being introduced in MD. Wow , that takes some serious balls.


It also appears that their expert, Russ Ford, is the owner of the patent or at least one of the websites, while Mrs Taylor owns the other site.

 

[Spot77]

Now they are admitting the connection between the patent holders and the bill being introduced in MD. Wow , that takes some serious balls.


It also appears that their expert, Russ Ford, is the owner of the patent or at least one of the websites, while Mrs Taylor owns the other site.

"Gun Control for Profit"