ACTUALLY preventing tragedy

[Maestro Pistolero]

The only real solution is a pair of armed guards at every school. Properly trained it wouldn't prevent this from happening but it would be a deterrent and mitigate losses.

This.

Msnbc today is openly discussing how to stigmatize and publicly shame gun ownership. NY Senator Carolyn (the shoulder-thing that goes up) McCarthy planning new sweeping assault gun ban that that makes the previous AWB pale in comparison.

CA state Senator Yee reintroducing his failed ban on AR bullet buttons, which make ARs into fixed magazine rifles, thus making them legal in CA. There are an estimated half-million such expensive rifles that would be banned ex-post-facto.

They will talk about everything EXCEPT what would actually prevent or limit mass killings.

They will prevent, demonize and shame the ONLY thing that could have saved lives.

Hiring retired LE/armed security as my LE/LT brother suggested is the only thing I am aware of that would limit or stop such an attack. If they don't want students having to learn in a militaristic environment, fine. Have the guards conceal the weapons and make sure the officers hired have the appropriate personalities/demeanors.

In a country with 330 million guns and an amendment protecting them, NO amount of supply-side gun control would ever make the slightest dent in curtailing these tragedies. You cannot take a supply-side approach to an issue where the supply is unlimited. But that won't slow the gun banners one bit.

Again, the one thing that could really protect children is the one thing they won't do.

 

[jpk1md]

This.

Msnbc today is openly discussing how to stigmatize and publicly shame gun ownership. NY Senator Carolyn (the shoulder-thing that goes up) McCarthy planning new sweeping assault gun ban that that makes the previous AWB pale in comparison.

CA state Senator Yee reintroducing his failed ban on AR bullet buttons, which make ARs into fixed magazine rifles, thus making them legal in CA. There are an estimated half-million such expensive rifles that would be banned ex-post-facto.

They will talk about everything EXCEPT what would actually prevent or limit mass killings.

They will prevent, demonize and shame the ONLY thing that could have saved lives.

Hiring retired LE/armed security as my LE/LT brother suggested is the only thing I am aware of that would limit or stop such an attack. If they don't want students having to learn in a militaristic environment, fine. Have the guards conceal the weapons and make sure the officers hired have the appropriate personalities/demeanors.

In a country with 330 million guns and an amendment protecting them, NO amount of supply-side gun control would ever make the slightest dent in curtailing these tragedies. You cannot take a supply-side approach to an issue where the supply is unlimited. But that won't slow the gun banners one bit.

Again, the one thing that could really protect children is the one thing they won't do.

I don't mean to be mean but you're entire post is factually incorrect and all of the ideas you propose have been demonstrated to be ineffective and costly not to mention an overt infringement on liberty and freedom

Isreal attempted to deter evil people from doing bad things by increasing the presence of Police and Military on their streets, in their schools and on public transportation

Ineveitably evil people just wait until the Police/Military move on down the road, go to a different part of the building or get off the bus before committing atrocities

They got smart and abandoned this costly and ineffective approach and started encouraging CCW

The only people in a position to stop bad things from happening are Citizens.

 

[Mooseman]

My wife is an elementary school teacher, so I am very concerned about what happened yesterday. While armed guards would have stopped some of the carnage that happened yesterday, it would not have been eliminated completely. I feel the best solution is to lock up the crazies. Just take them off of our streets.

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

My entire post is factually incorrect? So do you believe that attempting to reduce gun violence by reducing the supply of guns is effective? Are you saying a couple of armed retired police officers are NOT a deterrent or a means of stopping an unbridled massacre? Do you think the same people that resist having armed police on a campus are going to allow citizens to protect a school?

I agree that there is no substitute for an armed citizenry in the community at large, but we are talking about a school here. In THAT context, Please connect the dots for me.

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

My wife is an elementary school teacher, so I am very concerned about what happened yesterday. While armed guards would have stopped some of the carnage that happened yesterday, it would not have been eliminated completely. I feel the best solution is to lock up the crazies. Just take them off of our streets.

Many of these psychos are undiagnosed prior to their rampages. I liken pre-emptive action such as you suggest to good solid fire prevention measures, but once there's a fire, there's no substitute for a fire extinguisher.

 

[drking2]

My entire post is factually incorrect? So do you believe that attempting to reduce gun violence by reducing the supply of guns is effective? Are you saying a couple of armed retired police officers are NOT a deterrent or a means of stopping an unbridled massacre? Do you think the same people that resist having armed police on a campus are goin to allow citizens to protect a school? Please connect the dots for me.

Its think passing stricter gun laws will work just as well as the war on drugs has done. 30 years ago this shooter would have been in a mental institution but we stopped that because they need to be in the community where it is better for them. What a crock

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[omegared24]

I don't mean to be mean but you're entire post is factually incorrect and all of the ideas you propose have been demonstrated to be ineffective and costly not to mention an overt infringement on liberty and freedom

Isreal attempted to deter evil people from doing bad things by increasing the presence of Police and Military on their streets, in their schools and on public transportation

Ineveitably evil people just wait until the Police/Military move on down the road, go to a different part of the building or get off the bus before committing atrocities

They got smart and abandoned this costly and ineffective approach and started encouraging CCW

The only people in a position to stop bad things from happening are Citizens.

You are comparing apples and oranges here. What happens in Israel is not what happens here. Before you make comments about what happens in other countries make sure you have your facts straight.

Using your logic we should eliminate all LE's, allow people to arm and self police themselves. Good luck with that.

No one is saying that police in schools will eliminate a threat. It will help deter and stop it before it turns to a massacre. My son that is in middle school says an officer hangs out at his school around noon every day (open carry) and everyone knows and likes him. He says he feels safe with the officer around.

Lets stop making this a push for CC. Lets make this a push for protecting kids. The only real way to do it is with an LE tandom in every school....period.

 

[omegared24]

Its think passing stricter gun laws will work just as well as the war on drugs has done. 30 years ago this shooter would have been in a mental institution but we stopped that because they need to be in the community where it is better for them. What a crock

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I think that everyone on this forum would agree that stricter gun laws are an ignorant, head in the sand proposition. I cant wait until we can CC. I just want our kids safe.

 

[Name Taken]

There are SEVERAL problem with "guards".

Do you want a "guard" who's getting paid 10-14 bucks an hour at the school? I dont.

Do you want a police officer getting paid anywhere from 45-90K a year sitting in an elementary school? I dont and I think it's a knee jerk reaction honestly.

Furthermore no department is going to just put two officers in the school and expect them to wait for the worst. They will expect the officers to have some classes to be taught etc which also is a waste of time. The administrators also begin to use the police instead of internal discipline. The school can deal with minor fights and altercation...with the officer there they are going to want him to deal with it thus more and more young folks with criminal records. Who didnt get into an altercation at 7 or 8 on the playground?

Also what do you do when the officer assigned to the school is sick? Going to pull one off the streets to stand around in an elementary school? You expect him to teach some sort of lesson planned in scheduled.

If you fear a police state before...putting an officer in the kids life from ages 5-18 is certainly not a good thing.

I also think it's foolish to think that one or two police officers could stopped a heavily armed gun man. Unless you want them walking around with equal firepower you just make them a easy first target. Or do you want them in the halls with AR's and MP5's?


Stop with knee jerk reactions.

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

Do you want a "guard" who's getting paid 10-14 bucks an hour at the school? I dont.

There are hundreds of thousands of retired police officers who already have pension and medical coverage. Many of them would gladly guard a school for 20-25 dollars an hour.

 

[Name Taken]

There are hundreds of thousands of retired police officers who already have pension and medical coverage. Many of them would gladly guard a school for 20-25 dollars an hour.

So the solution to a heavily armed maniac is to put a 45-65 year old retired officer with a single handgun inside a school to keep everyone safe? Unless this old guy has equal firepower (meaning a AR15) and is openly carrying that rifle they arent going to be able to properly address a situation.

Great.

More knee jerk reaction. Guess who would be the first target in the incident? The old guy walking around the halls.

It's a great idea....really...put an armed person or two in the school. But it's not going to defeat someone determined to go in there and kill someone.

If it was that simple we'd never see shootings at court houses which have a lot of cops, police stations, military bases, etc.

Society needs to attack the PROBLEM...and that's crazies roaming the streets at free will.

 

[omegared24]

There are SEVERAL problem with "guards".

Do you want a "guard" who's getting paid 10-14 bucks an hour at the school? I dont.

Do you want a police officer getting paid anywhere from 45-90K a year sitting in an elementary school? I dont and I think it's a knee jerk reaction honestly.

Furthermore no department is going to just put two officers in the school and expect them to wait for the worst. They will expect the officers to have some classes to be taught etc which also is a waste of time. The administrators also begin to use the police instead of internal discipline. The school can deal with minor fights and altercation...with the officer there they are going to want him to deal with it thus more and more young folks with criminal records. Who didnt get into an altercation at 7 or 8 on the playground?

Also what do you do when the officer assigned to the school is sick? Going to pull one off the streets to stand around in an elementary school? You expect him to teach some sort of lesson planned in scheduled.

If you fear a police state before...putting an officer in the kids life from ages 5-18 is certainly not a good thing.

I also think it's foolish to think that one or two police officers could stopped a heavily armed gun man. Unless you want them walking around with equal firepower you just make them a easy first target. Or do you want them in the halls with AR's and MP5's?


Stop with knee jerk reactions.

Yes...sure...and why not.

None of my comments are knee jerk. We are talking about future potential threats that go beyond the occasional psycho. When the airline industry proposed a virtual strip search of every passenger you heard the same thing. Now not a person flying would get on a plane without the process. I am to proposing that we go to this extreme. Just making a point.

If you want to be cheap about security that is fine. You cannot put a price on any childs life.

Your other issues with this are minor details....what does the school do wjen a teacher is sock?

 

[crazycarl7]

safety

My children are in Pre-K and K at a private school in Northern MD. I will be contacting the principal on Mpnday to discuss the safety measures they have in place. There is nothing worse than relying on someone else for the protection of my children. The best defense is a good offense. I would feel much safer if I knew that there was someone present at the school that could stand between a gunman, and my children! Only other option is to home school. More gun laws, I believe, is not the answer. No laws could have prevented this from happening. As reported today, the guns were legally owned by his mother. He was only 20 years old. He took her guns and commited these crimes. The AR15 was apparently not used to commit the crimes either (according to media). He also forced his way in to the school. I would HAPPILY pay more $$$ for tuition in order to pay for an active off duty police officer to be on location. Just my 2 cents

 

[Name Taken]

They have a sub teacher come in....there arent sub police officers just sitting around doing nothing. You are taking them away from their other duties...you can just call someone up and ask them to come in...it doesnt work that way.

Just throw more money and police at the problem...that'll fix a society issue.

We are guessing that one or two armed police officers or "guards" are going to be able to engage someone heavily armed and prevent this incident. I'm assuming these same people offering this advice are fairly clueless on how police are trained to respond and engage "active" shooters in a school.

Your emotions might be telling you it's a great idea.....but it's just that...emotions. You havent began to address the logicitcs or the training of the matter.

Let me put you through a six month academy and give you a handgun and you can stand around waiting for someone with a AR-15, several other guns, and a mindset they are going to die and see how you far against him in a fire fight with your handgun.

And your response is 100% knee jerk. Before yesterday who was calling for heavily armed folks inside elementary schools? No one.

I'd take you to task that TSA hasnt made us any safer but that's another thread.

 

[omegared24]

They have a sub teacher come in....there arent sub police officers just sitting around doing nothing. You are taking them away from their other duties...you can just call someone up and ask them to come in...it doesnt work that way.

Just throw more money and police at the problem...that'll fix a society issue.

We are guessing that one or two armed police officers or "guards" are going to be able to engage someone heavily armed and prevent this incident. I'm assuming these same people offering this advice are fairly clueless on how police are trained to respond and engage "active" shooters in a school.

Your emotions might be telling you it's a great idea.....but it's just that...emotions. You havent began to address the logicitcs or the training of the matter.

Let me put you through a six month academy and give you a handgun and you can stand around waiting for someone with a AR-15, several other guns, and a mindset they are going to die and see how you far against him in a fire fight with your handgun.

And your response is 100% knee jerk. Before yesterday who was calling for heavily armed folks inside elementary schools? No one.

I'd take you to task that TSA hasnt made us any safer but that's another thread.

We certainly can agree to disagree.

And if your thoughts are that the police are incapable of dealing with a situation like that then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Name Taken]

We certainly can agree to disagree.

And if your thoughts are that the police are incapable of dealing with a situation like that then I don't know what to tell you.

1 police officer isnt capable.....and just about every "active shooter" training course tells me that...I'm not assuming like some here.

Post Columbine they said atleast 4 officers should be grouped up before entering the school....not 1 or 2.

I wont go into deep detail...but that training is a bit different now....but it sure isnt 1 officer or two guards to go and deal with someone on a mission to kill with a high powered rifle.

 

[omegared24]

1 police officer isnt capable.....and just about every "active shooter" training course tells me that...I'm not assuming like some here.

Post Columbine they said atleast 4 officers should be grouped up before entering the school....not 1 or 2.

I wont go into deep detail...but that training is a bit different now....but it sure isnt 1 officer or two guards to go and deal with someone on a mission to kill with a high powered rifle.

I will defer as you are the expert here. Tell us how to solve the problem. I may even vote for you during the next election.

 

[MDMOUNTAINEER]

You are comparing apples and oranges here. What happens in Israel is not what happens here. Before you make comments about what happens in other countries make sure you have your facts straight.

Using your logic we should eliminate all LE's, allow people to arm and self police themselves. Good luck with that.

No one is saying that police in schools will eliminate a threat. It will help deter and stop it before it turns to a massacre. My son that is in middle school says an officer hangs out at his school around noon every day (open carry) and everyone knows and likes him. He says he feels safe with the officer around.

Lets stop making this a push for CC. Lets make this a push for protecting kids. The only real way to do it is with an LE tandom in every school....period.

I don't know how you extrapolated "eliminate all LE's" from his statement. Cops can't be everywhere all the time. An armed citizenry proliferates in all areas which allows more influence. Therefore cc is a viable option, and as jpk stated, it works well in Israel.

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

Every second the shooter spends dealing with the retired officers is a second spent NOT shooting children. Seconds counts.

 

[Name Taken]

I will defer as you are the expert here. Tell us how to solve the problem. I may even vote for you during the next election.

I dont declare to be an expert. I'm not throwing out feel good solutions though like some.

I'd like to have a constructive solution not someone who thinks police are all mighty and capable of defeating a heavily armed subject with one handgun like superman as the solution to school shootings.

Here's another thought....for a long long time, and in some area's, it still taught that the officer assigned to the school should FLEE the school upon an active shooter. Go figure that one out.

Yup putting them there...that'll fix everything.


We should also stage an Advanced Life Support Ambo at every school...just in case this happens we should have medics there on stand by right?