80% Lower update

[Brooklyn]

I don't see MOM and friends having the stones to try anything in the way of gun/people control in 2014. They will require time to collect Bull*hit statistics and Bogus body count data.

Additionally, they won't want to risk screwing up their chances for re-election in 2014. They still need Liberal, Maryland gun owners to vote for them. Which, of course, they will. Again!

2015, however, is another story entirely.

Mom is out of the game now. He is angling for a job in the Democratic admin or even a post at the blloomberg school of public health. Trust me.... If nothing else some back bencher will try to grab headlines. Put 10K in layers mall and it goes away for now. Come in under last session and we are done.

Unless there is an injunction on the merits.. there is no downside to making us chase our tail. And if we fail to answer the challenge...

This is not a game.. we show building momentum we instill fear we do not we instill laughter....

Next session will tell the tale.

 

[Immersion]

That depends, did you forge the 80% lower yourself? Because if not, there will be a paper trail and a CC receipt somewhere that says you bought the 80% lower post 10/1. And if you bought it after 10/1 it would be fairly difficult to finish it pre 10/1.

Define "difficult" if you would please. All this is for the sake of knowledge. Let's not split hairs already since I'm a new member.

 

[Apd09]

Define "difficult" if you would please. All this is for the sake of knowledge. Let's not split hairs already since I'm a new member.

Go back and reread what they wrote. It's fairly self explanatory. If you have a receipt for purchase after Oct 1 how would you have completed it before Oct 1? Your bank statements have dates. UPS has records. Your computer has information regarding what pages you were on and when.

Not very difficult to prove you did it after.

 

[Immersion]

Go back and reread what they wrote. It's fairly self explanatory. If you have a receipt for purchase after Oct 1 how would you have completed it before Oct 1? Your bank statements have dates. UPS has records. Your computer has information regarding what pages you were on and when.

Not very difficult to prove you did it after.

Understood. Thank you Apd and everyone else for your responses.

 

[Sting]

I'm pretty sure it is addressed here:

Q: What's on the list of banned "assault long guns"?

A firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon.

Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle

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It is banned to have one no matter who manufactures it, if you complete an 80% lower YOU are the manufacturer. Honestly no one knows, but this is the interpretation many people have agreed is the most relevant and addresses it.

If I convert an 80% to a 100% stripped lower receiver, add the bits to the lower, add an upper to make a 22 rimfire, i dont think I am breaking the law during any of these steps. It's not a copy cat under the section defining a copy cat as center fired. An AR 15 with 22 LR upper is not a copy cat. It can have the naughty bits as well.

 

[Apd09]

If I convert an 80% to a 100% stripped lower receiver, add the bits to the lower, add an upper to make a 22 rimfire, i dont think I am breaking the law during any of these steps. It's not a copy cat under the section defining a copy cat as center fired. An AR 15 with 22 LR upper is not a copy cat. It can have the naughty bits as well.

And that's the problem everyone is trying to address. The loophole like that where there are still legal firearms that share common components as the banned ones. No one knows the answer and no one will publicly state to the AG and MSP their intentions to purchase an 80% and manufacture a legal set up.

If you want to be the test case by all means I would love to know but publicly announce your intentions and don't hide in the garage.

 

[Cyclone]

If I convert an 80% to a 100% stripped lower receiver, add the bits to the lower, add an upper to make a 22 rimfire, i dont think I am breaking the law during any of these steps. It's not a copy cat under the section defining a copy cat as center fired. An AR 15 with 22 LR upper is not a copy cat. It can have the naughty bits as well.

A stripped lower is considered ban and illegal to have after 10/01.Dont care if it is born as 80 percent cause once you finished it you have manufactured a banned firearms. The answer to your question is also the answer because, what if you put a regular 556 upper with it.? Yes the answer is it is banned. Getting around with the law will just make you an apple of their eye. I hope your not too cute to go in prison, they like cute boys in there...

 

[RDavidP]

Go back and reread what they wrote. It's fairly self explanatory. If you have a receipt for purchase after Oct 1 how would you have completed it before Oct 1? Your bank statements have dates. UPS has records. Your computer has information regarding what pages you were on and when.

Not very difficult to prove you did it after.

Go to an out of state gun show and pay in cash face to face.

 

[rwbow1969]

Go to an out of state gun show and pay in cash face to face.

There are FFL's in this state selling 80%ers right now. It's not illegal to sell them or pay them cash if you buy one.

 

[Sting]

A stripped lower is considered ban and illegal to have after 10/01.Dont care if it is born as 80 percent cause once you finished it you have manufactured a banned firearms. The answer to your question is also the answer because, what if you put a regular 556 upper with it.? Yes the answer is it is banned. Getting around with the law will just make you an apple of their eye. I hope your not too cute to go in prison, they like cute boys in there...

I hear you but I don't see that in the law as written. If you could point to a phrase in SB281 please let me know. I pointed out where it says rimfire is legal and nowhere do I see that a striped 100% is illegal. If you put a 556 upper you are violating the law. You'd don't get busted cause you are able to break the law..we all are, just for breaking it. Just as if you put the naughty bits on any center fire rifle..thereby changing it into a copycat...as it is plainly stated in the bill. An center fire rifle with and detachable magazine plus a pistol grip, or forward pistol grip, telescoping stock etc etc...is a copy cat and banned. It really throws a broad net if we have to worry that we can wind up in prison just because we might break the law. I hope there are a few years before it comes to that.

 

[Pinecone]

(D) “ASSAULT WEAPON” MEANS:
(1) AN ASSAULT LONG GUN;
(2) AN ASSAULT PISTOL; OR
(3) A COPYCAT WEAPON.

(B) “ASSAULT LONG GUN” MEANS ANY ASSAULT WEAPON LISTED UNDER § 5–101(R)(2) OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ARTICLE.

5-101(R)(2) is the list of banned firearms.

So anything on the list is an "assault weapon" and subject to the same restrictions as the "copy cat" firearms.

5-101(R)(2) starts with:

(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:

This language applies to ALL items on the banned list.

The AR-15 line includes similar language, but this does not negate the above statement. So copies of an HBAR should be legal. If they try to say that copies of the HBAR are not legal, then that would void the above language and make copies of other items on the list (other than AR-15s) now legal. The way the law is written, that statement applies to everything or nothing.

 

[cap6888]

Since we are beating this horse to death......since no where in SB281 directly talks about lowers, where is the info coming from that they are banned?

 

[Weber]

Since we are beating this horse to death......since no where in SB281 directly talks about lowers, where is the info coming from that they are banned?

Speculations, and rumors.

 

[Apd09]

Since we are beating this horse to death......since no where in SB281 directly talks about lowers, where is the info coming from that they are banned?

I'm not able to tell you where, no one can. So if that's the case why aren't you able to walk into a store and buy a lower? Since it's not specifically spelled out, go buy a lower and let me know what store sold it so I can go too.

 

[cap6888]

Speculations, and rumors.

That's what I thought. So the problem is do we ask for a formal opinion and risk getting it banned, or go forth and risk being the test case.

It's like dealing with your wife....better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

One would think that if you bought and completed an 80% lower now, marked it as a pistol lower, .22 caliber, etc. you should be fine. But again, I don't want to be the test case.

 

[Weber]

That's what I thought. So the problem is do we ask for a formal opinion and risk getting it banned, or go forth and risk being the test case.

It's like dealing with your wife....better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

One would think that if you bought and completed an 80% lower now, marked it as a pistol lower, .22 caliber, etc. you should be fine. But again, I don't want to be the test case.

My research, and opinion is that 80% lowers that are built into a "legal" firearm is 100% legal, before and after Oct 1st.

 

[Sting]

I'm not able to tell you where, no one can. So if that's the case why aren't you able to walk into a store and buy a lower? Since it's not specifically spelled out, go buy a lower and let me know what store sold it so I can go too.

I cant find a balanced bike glider in Maryland. That does not make them illegal. There is debate and uncertainty yes and people risking a lot worry but we certainly can talk and possibly yield but certainly not surrender. That is why I am interested in the actual legal language and I don't see it ther about finishing lowers, bits and all as long as you don't slap on illegal uppers.

 

[Sting]

My research, and opinion is that 80% lowers that are built into a "legal" firearm is 100% legal, before and after Oct 1st.

I don't know how you and others come up with this Oct 1 date. I see nothing changed in the law other than the banning of certain AR combinations. But if you see the language somewhere please let me know.

 

[Sting]

My research, and opinion is that 80% lowers that are built into a "legal" firearm is 100% legal, before and after Oct 1st.

Oops, I misread your post. 100% agree with you till someone shows otherwise.

 

[Sting]

The bill on one hand used 'imitations/copies' to define banned weapons and then an exemption for the Colt HBar Sporter.. can they define that as a single model from Colt and not include 'imtations/copies' in that definition as well? If so, then we are all screwed as far as any AR15 other than NFA (MAYBE) and pistols, but you need to have a virgin lower prior to 10/1 for that. If they concede the imitation/copies and don't give Colt a monopoly on the HBar market in the State of Md, then the point is valid..the lower is the firearm and has no defining features, therefore should be able to be sold, as long as the buyer does not build anything other than an NFA weapon for which he is permitted, or a legal configuration (i.e. an HBar could be built).

Some points of contention: the lower is not the firearm. It is however regulated. It is illegal to add uppers that result in banned configurations. Colt HBAR is the only configuration that is not banned in center fired rifles. It says Colt in the law...and only Colt. The copy cat statements are general so they drag in everything with those characteristics as long as it is center fired. Rimfired configurations of all types are permitted even with the naughty parts listed because the copy cat language stresses center fired rifles.