70% Accuracy

[Blaster229]

good for those who want to skip a day of shooting and don't really want to learn anything.

The purpose of SIMS training isn't marksmanship or even gun handling. They didn't start out as a basic handgun training aid for those who don't have ranges to shoot real pistols. It's just morphed into this qualification substitute.
I think the place my buddy took his course, if you fail the first 25 qual, you can try again, but you have to pay an extra 30 bucks. It's expensive.
What it really trains you is malfunction drills. That is if you are using heavily used and not totally cleaned pistols. Nothing like trying to clear one and reload as you are getting blasted. Especially when you are wearing a mask and sometimes gloves.
It's a tactics training aid. It allows for a 2 way range. Force on force is a valuable tool to teach you to stay in the fight even when you're getting peppered by rounds. So you can actually feel something. You get to actually pull a trigger when you are slicing the pie or going up a stairwell. I never understood the point of teams doing scenarios while wearing their full kit of ceramic plates and such. It's not good enough in the AAR to just see where you got hit.
I compare it to finally getting used to brass from the shooter to the left hitting you while on the range. After so long, you just get used to it and it doesn't affect your shooting. Earn your welts.

 

[light12pdr]

Went and qualified last weekend. It was not hard at all. There were some brand new shooters in the class. One of them had never handled a firearm before. That person did well. We shot 50 rounds for our qualification. The target is the B27 silhouette and all you had to do was hit it in the black. That target can look intimidating if you focus on the scoring rings. The instructor was clear on this; "for the purpose of the class, those rings are meaningless." This was really helpful for the people worrying about qualifying. So, Take your time, aim and squeeze.

I was with a friend who had not done much shooting. That friend shot 49 out of 50 with most of the shots in the center of the target.

The instructor promoted revolvers for their simplicity and reliability. Most in the class were into semi-autos, but from what I could tell, they were experienced shooters.

The new shooters were provided with revolvers which I thought was smart. Those few new shooters all qualified.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Still pretty expensive for instructors, larger meeting rooms are expensive for all but those who already own or lease them for other reasons, this hardware isn't cheap either. It probably doesn't bring the price down as much as most would expect, rather it gives a few big places a chance at higher profit on their cattlecar classes - good for those who want to skip a day of shooting and don't really want to learn anything.

The revolutionary part isn't being cheap .

The important part is being able to locate closer to population centers , and run more people thru .

 

[Occam]

The revolutionary part isn't being cheap .

The important part is being able to locate closer to population centers , and run more people thru .

Exactly this. The course we were able to line up was held in the middle of Montgomery County. It was very obvious that for at least a couple of the students, the convenience and availability were far more important than the price.

 

[rbird7282]

Simunitions are quite accurate at 3 to 30 meters. It’s still a firearm- cartridge, primer, powder, and projectiles- although the projectile is plastic filled with paint.

Good enough for FLETC, Air Marshals, Border Patrol, etc.

Simunition - Training for the Real World

simunition.com

I’ve been shot with them (the ones we used were actually chalk pellets) by HOCO Swat guys. They sting and leave small welts but don’t hurt much.


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[Occam]

I’ve been shot with them (the ones we used were actually chalk pellets) by HOCO Swat guys. They sting and leave small welts but don’t hurt much.


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The ones I described in my post above (the UTM system) are powered by primers, but they're plenty zippy. I would NOT want to catch one. They're for target use, not force-on-force training. The instructor had the targets on some indoor/outdoor carpets flopped over backer, and a 1/4 thick rubber mat behind that. In frequently hit areas, these were getting through the carpeting and the mat, and getting to the folder-over second layer. Would absolutely break skin, for sure put an eye out. Played about like a high powered .177 pellet rifle.

 

[hogarth]

The ones I described in my post above (the UTM system) are powered by primers, but they're plenty zippy. I would NOT want to catch one. They're for target use, not force-on-force training. The instructor had the targets on some indoor/outdoor carpets flopped over backer, and a 1/4 thick rubber mat behind that. In frequently hit areas, these were getting through the carpeting and the mat, and getting to the folder-over second layer. Would absolutely break skin, for sure put an eye out. Played about like a high powered .177 pellet rifle.

UTM is most certainly used in FoF training. Have used them several times myself.

 

[Mark75H]

The instructor promoted revolvers for their simplicity and reliability. Most in the class were into semi-autos, but from what I could tell, they were experienced shooters.

The new shooters were provided with revolvers which I thought was smart. Those few new shooters all qualified.

I always put a single action 22 revolver in the hands of a new shooter for their first shot.

But they are not the be-all and end-all for reliability as was demonstrated in the class I gave this past weekend. One person brought a revolver and it was the only gun that had any unintentional jams and failures to fire. It had many light strikes on the primers and it locked up at least three times. It was a Colt, So we are not talking about junk brand guns. My student was able to qualify with it but we had to be aware of some things like the two shots in five seconds to be ready to pull the trigger three times to get off the two shots.

 

[Occam]

UTM is most certainly used in FoF training. Have used them several times myself.

Ow!

 

[Mark75H]

The course of fire for the wear and carry permit as spelled out on MSPLD website is only 25 shots. It also calls for reloading at the 5 yard stage. Did you do this?

 

[hogarth]

Ow!

Yep.

Their rounds are called MMP or MMR, I forget which, which stands for either Man Marking Projectiles or Man Marking Rounds.

 

[Dogabutila]

New standard should be 8/10 from 40 in 15.

 

[eruby]

If you take the class using a revolver, can you shoot all 25 single action?

 

[teratos]

If you take the class using a revolver, can you shoot all 25 single action?

If you bring a SAO revolver, I’d say most assuredly, yes! Do you want to use my M11/9? It’s a pistol. Sort of.

 

[eruby]

If you bring a SAO revolver, I’d say most assuredly, yes! Do you want to use my M11/9? It’s a pistol. Sort of.

It's not a single action revolver, it's a Lou45 Smith and Wesson .38

I'm too fat, ugly, and stupid to even know what an M11/9 is.

ISBK

I may just use the good old 45 ACP

 

[Burt Hammersmith]

If you bring a SAO revolver, I’d say most assuredly, yes! Do you want to use my M11/9? It’s a pistol. Sort of.

Can I qual with one of these?

 

[rambling_one]

They should make you qualify at 100 yards.

Almost none of the stuff being discussed prepares any for a defensive shoot. Drawing is important. After that, it’s point shooting. You aren’t aiming and you most likely aren’t reloading.

24/25 at Cindy's this morning. Yes, I'm disappointed.

We did play "Fire one/Fire three on 'Threat!'" Don't forget to scan left and right.

Scanning can be problematic if you’re using muscle memory. Some keep their body in the initial shooting stance and turn their heads. Others move their head and firearm left and right in unison. Muzzle sweep then becomes a problem in training sessions.

 

[antco]

Curious, has anyone used a revolver for the qualification?

I did for my Nevada permit. S&W .38 Airweight. I could pass the MD course of fire, but it wouldn’t be an enjoyable experience.

 

[FrankZ]

I did for my Nevada permit. S&W .38 Airweight. I could pass the MD course of fire, but it wouldn’t be an enjoyable experience.

Roger that. Thank you

 

[scottyfz6]

Scanning can be problematic if you’re using muscle memory. Some keep their body in the initial shooting stance and turn their heads. Others move their head and firearm left and right in unison. Muzzle sweep then becomes a problem in training sessions.

Yeah I kept showing clear to the RO during my qual, kept going back to what I do during matches.