7.62 x 40 WT vs. .300 BLK

[Forest]

It is ballistically similar to the 6.8.
Perhaps my lack of familiarity of the 6.8 is clouding my understanding but what's not to like? Seems like it is everything the .300 blk is and some more.

The .300 BLK is easier to buy/use as magazine mods are not needed AND it works well with subsonics. It's a decent general purpose short range (200M and under) round.

It launches 110gr projectiles between 100 and 150fps slower than the 6.8 so it's really not up in the 6.x class of performance.

More like a bridging round between the 6.x class rounds and the .300. It will give you more useable range (with supersonic bullets) but if you need more range you might as well step up to the 6.5G or 6.8.

 

[Indiana Jones]

I hope it doesn't, but I keep feeling like .300blk is going to end up like 6.8. Everyone tells me it's not but I still don't see it selling anywhere near 5.56 or 7.62. I hope it stays, another alternative is really nice to have especially since you only need a barrel. If you have a 5.56 SBR that is not registered as "Multi" can you legally swap barrels (same length) to shoot .300blk or does it need to say "Multi" on lower and documents.

 

[erwos]

Essentially, it's a 30 caliber rifle in a lightweight platform. It can be a tack-driving 123gr supersonic shooter or a 220gr subsonic that, with quality suppressor, sounds like a mouse fart but still has the same energy at 300 yards as a .45ACP at point blank range.

Again: suppressors, SBRs, etc. These are all NFA items. They're awesome, but they are a miniscule fraction of the market.

Also, you want a good 30 cal platform?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-10

This brings me to my follow-on point: .308 is much cheaper than .300BLK. .300BLK is not going to be going mainstream any time soon at 60 cents per round (and usually more). .308 will do anything .300BLK does better, excepting the NFA-related stuff (which, as I've mentioned above, is not a sizable portion of the market).

It uses the same bolts and mags as a .223, the ammo is readily available at most gun shops, and it's parent case (a 223) and its bullets (308) can be found everywhere.

You're vastly overestimating the market for reloaders. It's a nice touch for future usage and development, but it's basically irrelevant as far as market share. We're talking about a prediction that it would take almost HALF the AR-15 market. Reloading and NFA usage gets you 4%, not 40%.

And before I get branded a hater, I would positively LOVE for .300BLK to get cheap and available enough for me to use in it my SBR. But it's not there yet, and I sincerely doubt it ever will be. Just my opinion, nothing personal.

 

[Forest]

I hope it doesn't, but I keep feeling like .300blk is going to end up like 6.8. Everyone tells me it's not but I still don't see it selling anywhere near 5.56 or 7.62.

The 7.62x51 don't sell that well, and while 7.62x39 support has grown it still (after 30 some years) isn't at the level of 6.8 support.

What the .300 has the best intial offering support of ANY cartridge due the parent company (Ceberus). It will give the improved terminal performance that many want (especially for hunting) with a potentially lower ammo cost than the 6.x rounds. Indeed as of right now less than a year after it rollout it has the lower cost factory ammo available ($11.99 for a box/20 FMJ).

Wide industry support, reasonable ammo costs, fits in the smaller/lighter AR-15 platform, while having the terminal performance needed to take down deer and hogs at typical Eastern/woodlands hunting ranges? That's a winner IMHO.

 

[erwos]

Wide industry support, reasonable ammo costs, fits in the smaller/lighter AR-15 platform, while having the terminal performance needed to take down deer and hogs at typical Eastern/woodlands hunting ranges? That's a winner IMHO.

That's what they said about 6.8 Remington SPC. Remington is owned by Cerberus, FYI.

 

[Forest]

.308 will do anything .300BLK does better, .

Carry a .300 BLK AR-15 rifle all day, then a .308 AR-10 - then come back and tells us which one was more the joy to carry on an all-day hunt.

'Better' is a subjective term, but if I were going out hunting - where I'm not going to take a shot much over 200y the .300 BLK is 'better' as hunting ammo costs ARE THE SAME, magazines are cheaper for the .300, the .300 is lighter, shorter (even with the same barrel length), has less muzzle blast and recoil.

 

[Forest]

That's what they said about 6.8 Remington SPC. Remington is owned by Cerberus, FYI.

No they didn't say that about the 6.8.

BTW Remington was not owned by Ceberus at the time the 6.8 came out and had nothing to do with it's development. It was merely the commercial company that was willing to get it accepted by SAAMI.

They (Remington) ****ed up the chamber drawings submitted to SAAMI which gave many users bad results and problems with MV and chamber pressure.

Companies like PRI which were following the original AMU chamber designs didn't have problems, but companies that followed Remington's submitted chamber had problems with some ammo.

Remington was the problem - just as they messed up the .30 RAR (again a Remington problem).

This time Remington is the servant instead of playing the 'master' and I'm betting the management at Ceberus won't allow them to sabotage this effort as they have others in the past.

 

[erwos]

I actually think the hunting scenario isn't a bad one, but is it really being marketed towards hunters very much? The marketing seems to mostly be "tactical" and "NFA".

As for Remington, I very much doubt they were out to screw themselves on any of their previous efforts. Simply put, there just wasn't much of a market for the value proposition of 6.8mm or .30 RAR. Why you think .300BLK is so much different, I'm still not sure. Technical greatness just doesn't always carry the day in the market.

 

[Lex Armarum]

I actually think the hunting scenario isn't a bad one, but is it really being marketed towards hunters very much? The marketing seems to mostly be "tactical" and "NFA".

As for Remington, I very much doubt they were out to screw themselves on any of their previous efforts. Simply put, there just wasn't much of a market for the value proposition of 6.8mm or .30 RAR. Why you think .300BLK is so much different, I'm still not sure. Technical greatness just doesn't always carry the day in the market.

Believe it or not, that's part of the reason I am looking at these rounds. Where I hunt, it gets close in. Most of my kills have been sub 75 yds. Now, most bolt actions do the job just fine but I'm always on the lookout for an alternative. Hunting with an AR sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[olddawg]

I'm enjoying this exchange. Its informative and most importantly civil. Thanks guys.

 

[erwos]

I'm enjoying this exchange. Its informative and most importantly civil. Thanks guys.

Yeah, and you know, I could be wrong. Maybe this time next year, I'll be posting pictures of my sexy new .300BLK SBR upper and raving about the cheap factory ammo I'm putting through it.

 

[olddawg]

I think a lot of us are sitting on the fence. I'm trying to decide what to build next. So I'm watching threads like this closely.

 

[drking2]

I'm watching also, I have 4 lowers to build out this year

 

[aquaman]

Popularity is all I mean. I consider all of the alternative AR calibers worthless. If I have an AR its .308, 5.56, or .22LR.

I dont expect anyone to agree with me.

Is .300 blackout the new 6.5spc?

 

[Hopalong]

I think a lot of us are sitting on the fence. I'm trying to decide what to build next. So I'm watching threads like this closely.

This is me. I'm planning on at least one AR this year and I'm getting into suppressors, so I'm really torn between 5.56 and .300 BLK. I'll probably just end up doing both....

 

[Forest]

I actually think the hunting scenario isn't a bad one, but is it really being marketed towards hunters very much? The marketing seems to mostly be "tactical" and "NFA".

True enough. But the 6.8SPC was originally marketed toward the 'tactical' crowd as well - but found a strong following with the hunters. Indeed it was the hunters that introduced the SPC2 chamber.

As for Remington, I very much doubt they were out to screw themselves on any of their previous efforts

It's corporate incompetance. We could go through the whole thing, but yeah they continually have screwed the pooch on both calibers.

Simply put, there just wasn't much of a market for the value proposition of 6.8mm or .30 RAR.

There is a market. The .30 in particular was aimed at hunters (since there were no 'hi cap' magazines for it. But by then the 6.8 and 6.5 had grabbed most of the AR-15 medium game hunting market.

Why you think .300BLK is so much different, .

It uses the same magazines & bolts so it helps keep introductory costs down. Guys that didn't want to buy calibers specific magazines (especially at two to four times the cost of a standard AR magazine) will take a look at this.

It's being introduced out the door with a variety of ammo including inexpensive FMJ.

Lower costs will get the attention of a larger market.

For example when the 6.8 was first introduced there were only two companies producing FMJ. Remmington and SSA. Remmington promised $14-15/box FMJ but at most stores they ended up selling it for the same prices as the match OTMs (around $20-$22/box). SSA produced a lower cost FMJ - but because Remmington ****ed up the SAAMI drawings if you tried running the ammo in a SAAMI chambered rifle you'd end up with shavings off the TMJ which would eventually result in pressure spikes. SSA had to withdraw the ammo.

So untill Tula comes out with their steel cased ammo this summer the only way to get 'cheap' 6.8 was to reload.

 

[Russ D]

There is a huge market of AR owners that have been waiting to get behind a new cartridge for years, but until now none had true mainstream support. To me it's purely a timing issue. The time is perfect right now for the 300 BLK and now there is a huge truck load of money pushing it.

 

[Nemesis]

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...thats all i have to say

 

[Russ D]

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...thats all i have to say

I like to think of it as best of both worlds.

 

[Nemesis]

I like to think of it as best of both worlds.

indeed, it is.

i still think 300 blk will take the lead in popularity though, it got a head start.