.357Mag + Titegroup mild load

[Baumer]

I've got a new S&W 620 on the way and I'm looking for a mild load that my wife could plink with when we're at the range. I'm trying to use what I already have on the shelf so:

.357Mag Brass
Titegroup - I've got others but this is supposed to non position sensitive in the case which should work well for this application
Berry's 158gr plated round nose
WSP Primer

357Mag data for titegroup starts at ~5gr but I was thinking of dropping this down to about 3.5 for plinking.

Any thoughts or practical experience with this. Would it be reasonably accurate.

Thx

 

[alucard0822]

not a bad load, basically in a 357 case these duplicate, 3.5=38sp, 4=38+p, 5=357 mag, all are good soft shooting and accurate plated/lead loads.

 

[Cowboy T]

Titegroup's a great powder. I use it for all my "normal" 200gr .45 Colt loads, precisely because it's not sensitive to position in that cavernous case.

For light .357 Magnum, I use 4.9 to 5.0gr Bullseye pushing a 150gr boolit. This is an *exceptionally* clean load. I don't even have to tumble my cases afterwards. It feels and sounds like maybe a .38 Special +P. Very manageable in a "service size" revolver like your S&W 620. Try an equal amount of Titegroup and see how it feels first, before you reduce further. You may find you like it as is, since it's a little slower burning than Bullseye.

 

[guthook]

Very timely, I just got back from the range.

I was trying out some new loads in my S&W 686.

I'm not very steady with this gun yet so don't rag on me.

Here's the results: (It's only 7 yards)

This is my first wheelgun and I'm really digging the ease of reloading strait-walled cases with carbide dies.




.

 

[Cowboy T]

I do lots of those, and you're right, it's totally easy.

BTW, at "across the room distances", the bad guy's not gonna care about pinpoint accuracy if you put a pattern like that into him. He's gonna be just as dead. :-)

 

[alucard0822]

This is a 25yd target from a couple years ago out of my 686, probably a dozen rounds in it. I always loaded 158gr FP rainiers over 5gr of titegroup, then switched to bullseye after I got a keg of it, it shoots about the same, but is a little dirtier, I got a good deal on the keg, and load 45acp and 45 colt with it, maybe one day I will switch back.

 

[guthook]

This is a 25yd target from a couple years ago out of my 686, probably a dozen rounds in it. I always loaded 158gr FP rainiers over 5gr of titegroup, then switched to bullseye after I got a keg of it, it shoots about the same, but is a little dirtier, I got a good deal on the keg, and load 45acp and 45 colt with it, maybe one day I will switch back.

View attachment 17598

Nice group! I should've opted for the 4" barrel. I'm really not good at keeping the 6" steady. I guess I need to practice with it more. The way I want to hold it, my fingers are right by the cylinder gap.

Titegroup is some fairly clean powder and a little does go a long way. I was using 3.7gr on some .38 loads last time and they faired pretty well. Very light (poofy) type recoil. You can probably go lower than that. I'll have to check my manuals to see if there is a minimum load listed. You def don't want to get a rock stuck in the pipe.

 

[Baumer]

Very timely, I just got back from the range.

I was trying out some new loads in my S&W 686.

I'm not very steady with this gun yet so don't rag on me.

Here's the results: (It's only 7 yards)

This is my first wheelgun and I'm really digging the ease of reloading strait-walled cases with carbide dies.




.

That group will get the job done. It does seem easy to load for the wheel gun. I typically load for autos and have to consider what OAL with what boolit in what gun will feed, eject, cycle the slide, etc. With the wheel gun it's just OAL and enough powder to get the boolit out of the barrel.

 

[Baumer]

Titegroup's a great powder. I use it for all my "normal" 200gr .45 Colt loads, precisely because it's not sensitive to position in that cavernous case.

For light .357 Magnum, I use 4.9 to 5.0gr Bullseye pushing a 150gr boolit. This is an *exceptionally* clean load. I don't even have to tumble my cases afterwards. It feels and sounds like maybe a .38 Special +P. Very manageable in a "service size" revolver like your S&W 620. Try an equal amount of Titegroup and see how it feels first, before you reduce further. You may find you like it as is, since it's a little slower burning than Bullseye.

I've read a number of reviews/comments on Titegroup. Some say clean others say dirty. Any idea why? I'm guessing it's partly load related and partly individual perspective based on experience with other powders.

 

[Baumer]

Titegroup's a great powder. I use it for all my "normal" 200gr .45 Colt loads, precisely because it's not sensitive to position in that cavernous case.

For light .357 Magnum, I use 4.9 to 5.0gr Bullseye pushing a 150gr boolit. This is an *exceptionally* clean load. I don't even have to tumble my cases afterwards. It feels and sounds like maybe a .38 Special +P. Very manageable in a "service size" revolver like your S&W 620. Try an equal amount of Titegroup and see how it feels first, before you reduce further. You may find you like it as is, since it's a little slower burning than Bullseye.

I'll load some some in 5.0 range for myself but I'll also load some in the 3.5 range for the wife. She's just learning and I want to try to make recoil a non factor to start.

 

[alucard0822]

I've read a number of reviews/comments on Titegroup. Some say clean others say dirty. Any idea why? I'm guessing it's partly load related and partly individual perspective based on experience with other powders.

Depends on the pressure it is loaded to. A lot of powders burn clean at higher "magnum" pressures, but burn dirty and smoke at lower pressures. The pressure helps keep enough heat that the powder burns more efficiently.

Some like clays are a really good example, extremely clean when shooting near peak loads out of 357 or 44 mag cases, light flash loud bang and thats about it. However anything under about a 38+p or 45ACP gets sooty, and smokes. Light 38sp wadcutter loads have a lot of smoke, no flash, and a lot of residue, although still "relatively" clean it is nothing like the spotless clean loads at higher pressures.

 

[Cowboy T]

Depends on the pressure it is loaded to. A lot of powders burn clean at higher "magnum" pressures, but burn dirty and smoke at lower pressures. The pressure helps keep enough heat that the powder burns more efficiently.

Some like clays are a really good example, extremely clean when shooting near peak loads out of 357 or 44 mag cases, light flash loud bang and thats about it. However anything under about a 38+p or 45ACP gets sooty, and smokes. Light 38sp wadcutter loads have a lot of smoke, no flash, and a lot of residue, although still "relatively" clean it is nothing like the spotless clean loads at higher pressures.

+1 on this. Here's an example. Hodgdon has a special "Cowboy Action" load section in their manual. I wanted a nice, easy powder-puff load for .45 Colt. Their minimum Titegroup loading for a 200gr LRNFP is 5.0gr in this cartridge. My standard load is 6.2gr Titegroup pushing the same boolit, which is great for the Super Redhawk 454, but a little too snappy for the Taurus Judge Ultra-Lite. So, I tried 5.0gr out.

Man, oh man, did those cases get dirty! Blackened all over, took mucho time in the tumbler to get clean. There was plenty of unburned flakes in the cases and in the barrel. They didn't sound like "BANG", but rather like the "POP" you get when you uncork a Champagne bottle. The SRH 454 has a 7.5" barrel, and I was scared of a pill in the tube, so I was checkin' after each and every fired round! No pills stuck in there, thank goodness.

Amazingly, the SRH shot this obviously underpowered load reasonably accurately. Sometimes I think that gun could hit bullseyes with actual bird feathers, even with my eyes closed.

And BTW, my standard 6.2gr Titegroup load is reasonably clean in that big case. It's even cleaner at 7.0gr.

This is a testament to two things. 1.) Hodgdon's "minimum" Cowboy Action loads for .45 Long Colt are to be taken with a grain of salt. And 2.) The SRH is a damned forgiving piece of machinery.

 

[Shadow68]

I'll throw this in here FWIW - I've just started reloading (to support me & my wifes recent Cowboy Action Shooting habit) I decided to start with Trail Boss - We just used my second batch this past Saturday and they were great.

I chose the Trail Boss, because it's high volume, not too position sensitive and got great reviews for the light loads we wanted to shoot for CAS.

My reloads:
147gr Tapered Nose flat point lead boolit - 3.0gr of Trail Boss in .38 Spc. case.
The bullet is designed so when crimped in the groove, it is close to.357 length (which I'd found that our levergun needed) I seated to ~1.52x COAL

But back to the real story - the loads were great, enough punch to ring the steel nicely, but mild recoil. I got not complaints from my wife...

I can only compare them to WWB and some BVAC Reloads that I'd used in the same guns. The BVAC rounds were 158gr SWC lead, rated at about 800fps - they were very, very dirty and smokey - not BP smokey, but probably half as much.

I'd say the Trail Boss loads were no more "dirty" than WWB, probably cleaner...

I hope that my tiny little bit of experience is of some help.

 

[alucard0822]

147gr?

Lead bullets in that weight are usually .356" for use in 9mm/38super, only .002" smaller than "normal" .358", so they tend to shoot fine out of tight barrels, but can setback easily in a lever gun being smaller than the brass is sized for, possibly creating a dangerous condition. Not sure if they are or not, but just curious.

As far as trail boss goes, it is good stuff, but being about twice the volume of normal powders(kinda the point), and being sold in 9oz cans instead of by the pound, it goes quickly. My bullseye loads shoot well enough, and you get about twice the loads from a pound.

 

[Cowboy T]

But since he just started reloading, he might not (yet) know what a double-charge of Bullseye looks like. For beginning reloaders, Trail Boss is a very safe choice.

That said, I use lots of Bullseye myself. Great stuff for .38 Spl and light .357M.

 

[Shadow68]

147gr?

Lead bullets in that weight are usually .356" for use in 9mm/38super, only .002" smaller than "normal" .358", so they tend to shoot fine out of tight barrels, but can setback easily in a lever gun being smaller than the brass is sized for, possibly creating a dangerous condition. Not sure if they are or not, but just curious.

Yep - 147gr.
They are .358 - designed specifically for the Lever Actions that are particular about OAL...

Fourth down "Bullet Point" bullet point - Here

This fellow doesn't seem to say on the website if they are .358 or something else...
I actually didn't get them from the link above - but they are the same thing judging from the specs/photo.
I knew for sure that the ones I bought were .358 before I got them in a FTF transaction...

 

[Shadow68]

But since he just started reloading, he might not (yet) know what a double-charge of Bullseye looks like. For beginning reloaders, Trail Boss is a very safe choice.

That said, I use lots of Bullseye myself. Great stuff for .38 Spl and light .357M.

Exactly the reasons I chose to start with it...
But once I get going and get more experienced/comfortable with the process - I'm sure I'll start looking into other options.

Now I just need to figure out how to keep track of the things I learn from experienced folks like alucard & you - I end up with so many saved links that I have trouble sorting it all out when I want to refer back to it...

 

[alucard0822]

Yep - 147gr.
They are .358 - designed specifically for the Lever Actions that are particular about OAL...

Fourth down "Bullet Point" bullet point - Here

This fellow doesn't seem to say on the website if they are .358 or something else...
I actually didn't get them from the link above - but they are the same thing judging from the specs/photo.
I knew for sure that the ones I bought were .358 before I got them in a FTF transaction...

The one pictured is a classic 9mm(.356) 147gr profile, they don't say what diameter it is, but I would check it with calipers. If they shoot fine, then great, I occasionally go the other way and swage down 158gr .358 bullets to .356 for use in my 38 super. Without swaging, they bulge the cases. I have loaded and shot 9mm bullets in my 38/357 stuff too, shoots well enough as long as the bore is tight, and you give them a solid crimp.

 

[Cowboy T]

Exactly the reasons I chose to start with it...
But once I get going and get more experienced/comfortable with the process - I'm sure I'll start looking into other options.

Now I just need to figure out how to keep track of the things I learn from experienced folks like alucard & you - I end up with so many saved links that I have trouble sorting it all out when I want to refer back to it...

I keep a notebook. Every load that I've tried goes in there, along with the results, be they good or bad. This way I also know what not to do again. :-)

And, BTW, I'm not what I'd call "experienced" by any stretch. Some folks have been doing this for 15 up to 50 years and more. Compared to them, I ain't diddly.

 

[Inigoes]

Interesting URL, that fits with the OP:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu104.htm