20190314 - HB786 JUD Amendments

[Raineman]

I tell them the truth, its always your friend.

I used to think that.

 

[danb]

I used to think that.

did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

 

[Raineman]

Yes. I was speaking in general terms.

Your humor is noted.

 

[danb]

Then surely you realize that "The truth is always your friend." is sarcasm. More like: guilty until proven innocent in the Free State of Maryland.

 

[BeoBill]

Then surely you realize that "The truth is always your friend." is sarcasm. More like: guilty until proven innocent in the Formerly Free State of Maryland.

FIFY. /

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Then surely you realize that "The truth is always your friend." is sarcasm. More like: guilty until proven innocent in the Free State of Maryland.

And in the current White House

 

[danb]

The Baltimore Sun claims that SB737 passed out of committee 8-3 and


https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-long-gun-senate-20190329-story.html

The Senate’s Judicial Proceedings Committee voted 8-3 to advance a version of the bill to the Senate for consideration.

The House of Delegates already approved a different version of the bill on a 90-49 vote. So, if the Senate passes its version, the differences would have to be worked out before the measure could go to Gov. Larry Hogan for consideration.

Sun says its "different" than house version, but no amendments or voting records are up yet, so who knows.
House version:
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=03&id=hb0786&tab=subject3&ys=2019RS

Senate version:
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=02&id=sb0737&tab=subject3&ys=2019RS

 

[Malleovic]

The sun is making it confusing. The senate version of the bill SB737 (Lee's) looks like it's going nowhere. The house bill (HB786) is probably the only one in play.

What I think they're trying to say is that the house's bill, having crossed over, made it out of the senate JP committee, with some amendments. This means it's different than the version the house passed and sent over. If the senate passes it with these amendments, the house will need to vote on it again because it's different from what they passed before.

 

[danb]

The sun is making it confusing. The senate version of the bill SB737 (Lee's) looks like it's going nowhere. The house bill (HB786) is probably the only one in play.

What I think they're trying to say is that the house's bill, having crossed over, made it out of the senate JP committee, with some amendments. This means it's different than the version the house passed and sent over. If the senate passes it with these amendments, the house will need to vote on it again because it's different from what they passed before.

I think that there is simply a lag between when the committee votes and the documents on the website. Probably we will see the docs Monday. I think that the Sun's info about SB737 is too oddly specific to be wrong.

 

[BeoBill]

I think that there is simply a lag between when the committee votes and the documents on the website. Probably we will see the docs Monday. I think that the Sun's info about SB737 is too oddly specific to be wrong.

I wonder if the updating lag (and the Sun's obfuscation) aren't deliberate and purposeful?

Of course, I could just be suffering from BGOS or

 

[Abacab]

The Baltimore Sun claims that SB737 passed out of committee 8-3 and


https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-long-gun-senate-20190329-story.html



Sun says its "different" than house version, but no amendments or voting records are up yet, so who knows.
House version:
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=03&id=hb0786&tab=subject3&ys=2019RS

Senate version:
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=02&id=sb0737&tab=subject3&ys=2019RS

That committee is split 7-4

Who wants to bet Hogan Conservative Chris West voted for a favorable report

 

[zoostation]

My own understanding is that this bill is on very weak legs right now which is why it's dragging to the last minute. The only people who wanted it are the hard-core gun control crowd and their hobby mommies. Apparently even some of the Baltimore County delegation isn't really happy with this because they're all afraid of losing votes of the middle of the road/left-leaning "casual" gun owners and the sportsmen. Of which there are many in this state, As I've said a million times before, you guys who keep saying "they can do whatever they want so don't bother " do nobody any good here. The anti-gun people in the general assembly have a lot less sway than they will have you think. There's a reason why they bother to send trolls here to tell people to not participate.

 

[BeoBill]

The anti-gun people monitor us and send us trolls because they have shifted from a strategy of "Oh well, we'll try again next year" to one of "They don't like what we say, so we will destroy them!" This shift mirrors the general all-out war that Progressives have waged on everyone else since Hillary started running. It's now "Sherman's March Through Georgia" scorched earth for them now, and "Whatever it takes to win!".

 

[Malleovic]

I think that there is simply a lag between when the committee votes and the documents on the website. Probably we will see the docs Monday. I think that the Sun's info about SB737 is too oddly specific to be wrong.

Since SB737 still has not moved, I think this confirms the Sun is just being confusing. HB786 is the one they are rolling with.

 

[fabsroman]

Would you care to share?

.

It is all very simple.

LEO - "Have you been drinking tonight?"

Me - Officer, I am going to refuse to answer any and all questions you ask wherein you are trying to incriminate me through an admission against interest. Assume that everything I have done is legal and the vehicle is legal, until you have probable cause or actual evidence to believe otherwise. Understand that me refusing to answer any potentially incriminating question is me merely exercising my fifth amendment right. Please do not take my failure to respond as though it is an admission of guilt. So, why was I stopped?

 

[lazarus]

It is all very simple.

LEO - "Have you been drinking tonight?"

Me - Officer, I am going to refuse to answer any and all questions you ask wherein you are trying to incriminate me through an admission against interest. Assume that everything I have done is legal and the vehicle is legal, until you have probable cause or actual evidence to believe otherwise. Understand that me refusing to answer any potentially incriminating question is me merely exercising my fifth amendment right. Please do not take my failure to respond as though it is an admission of guilt. So, why was I stopped?

I’d probably end that with “but would you mind holding my beer while I look for my license, the open bottle of whiskey is taking up my cup holder”

But that’s only because I don’t know when to stop or not make a joke.

 

[fabsroman]

My own understanding is that this bill is on very weak legs right now which is why it's dragging to the last minute. The only people who wanted it are the hard-core gun control crowd and their hobby mommies. Apparently even some of the Baltimore County delegation isn't really happy with this because they're all afraid of losing votes of the middle of the road/left-leaning "casual" gun owners and the sportsmen. Of which there are many in this state, As I've said a million times before, you guys who keep saying "they can do whatever they want so don't bother " do nobody any good here. The anti-gun people in the general assembly have a lot less sway than they will have you think. There's a reason why they bother to send trolls here to tell people to not participate.

Exactly. The "Fudds" actually have a lot of sway, and happen to be treasurers of delegates and even delegates themselves. I am betting that this bill was neutered, and might not even pass, because of the "casual" gun owners and the Fudds. Same goes for the ghost gun bill, which I believe is 740. As far as SB1000, good luck on that. Until there is Constitutional Carry, without me having to submit fingerprints and go through a cavity search, I have no desire to carry. I see the HPRB as just an unnecessary step for those that actually want to fight the G&S machine. If I was going to fight that machine and knew that an appeal to OAH was a guarantee, just send me to OAH right away and skip the drama at HPRB and then having to wait for my OAH hearing before I have a final result.

How long has the OAH appeal process been in place?

If the politicians really did not like us and really had as much power as so many people on here believe, they would ram everything through they could think of. Why did Brown lose? Why did Hogan get re-elected? Most people are not far left or far right.

Lots of doom and gloom on here. Lots of wasted resources by us in Maryland too fighting stuff that will not matter, especially if G&S is going by the wayside through SCOTUS. If the Transfer bill is going to pass, then we really should be concentrating on that, and trying to get it crushed or trying to get the exceptions amended so they are a lot clearer and provide a lot more latitude to an owner that is lending a firearm to a person going to the range, going hunting, etc. The definition of "immediate family" could also be expanded to include cousins and others. Then again, maybe it has been amended significantly and I just have not read the most recent version.

Lastly, as far as the "troll" comment is concerned, anybody on here that does not agree with everything, and I mean everything, the far right has to say, is most likely labeled a "troll" in certain people's eyes. Heck, the majority of Americans, Trump included, do not like bumpstocks and the majority (i.e., 90%) of Americans favor UBC. We are surrounded by "trolls", even in red states. Most of the people against HB786 and HB740 are the same people labeled as "trolls" or "fudds" by some on here. Imagine what some honey might actually accomplish.

 

[lazarus]

Exactly. The "Fudds" actually have a lot of sway, and happen to be treasurers of delegates and even delegates themselves. I am betting that this bill was neutered, and might not even pass, because of the "casual" gun owners and the Fudds. Same goes for the ghost gun bill, which I believe is 740. As far as SB1000, good luck on that. Until there is Constitutional Carry, without me having to submit fingerprints and go through a cavity search, I have no desire to carry. I see the HPRB as just an unnecessary step for those that actually want to fight the G&S machine. If I was going to fight that machine and knew that an appeal to OAH was a guarantee, just send me to OAH right away and skip the drama at HPRB and then having to wait for my OAH hearing before I have a final result.

How long has the OAH appeal process been in place?

If the politicians really did not like us and really had as much power as so many people on here believe, they would ram everything through they could think of. Why did Brown lose? Why did Hogan get re-elected? Most people are not far left or far right.

Lots of doom and gloom on here. Lots of wasted resources by us in Maryland too fighting stuff that will not matter, especially if G&S is going by the wayside through SCOTUS. If the Transfer bill is going to pass, then we really should be concentrating on that, and trying to get it crushed or trying to get the exceptions amended so they are a lot clearer and provide a lot more latitude to an owner that is lending a firearm to a person going to the range, going hunting, etc. The definition of "immediate family" could also be expanded to include cousins and others. Then again, maybe it has been amended significantly and I just have not read the most recent version.

Lastly, as far as the "troll" comment is concerned, anybody on here that does not agree with everything, and I mean everything, the far right has to say, is most likely labeled a "troll" in certain people's eyes. Heck, the majority of Americans, Trump included, do not like bumpstocks and the majority (i.e., 90%) of Americans favor UBC. We are surrounded by "trolls", even in red states. Most of the people against HB786 and HB740 are the same people labeled as "trolls" or "fudds" by some on here. Imagine what some honey might actually accomplish.

Very true. (This is Not directed at you Fabs) I will agree with those who say “why bother, MGA is just going to keep neutering our rights. Time to move”, that it is not helpful. If you feel that way, fine, but a thread designed to be constructive and help us figure out how to lobby our representatives isn’t the place to fly in, crap all over the place and fly out. There is a watercooler for general griping.

But not being 100% in lockstep doesn’t make someone a troll. I’ll admit I am a liberal, but I believe strongly in all of the bill of rights, own guns (even scary ones), hunt, etc. I believe a lot of laws on the books in MD and Federal level infringe on the 2A and provide not shred of safety or trade way more freedom than any safety offered (example, FSA2013).

But I don’t believe any rights are unlimited.

I’ve written my legislators and committee members opposing this latest crop of bills and will again.

 

[Lloyd]

It is all very simple.

LEO - "Have you been drinking tonight?"

Me - Officer, I am going to refuse to answer any and all questions you ask wherein you are trying to incriminate me through an admission against interest. Assume that everything I have done is legal and the vehicle is legal, until you have probable cause or actual evidence to believe otherwise. Understand that me refusing to answer any potentially incriminating question is me merely exercising my fifth amendment right. Please do not take my failure to respond as though it is an admission of guilt. So, why was I stopped?

Much appreciated, but I have to admit that's a lot to remember when I'm drunk and have two dead hookers in the trunk.

{relax everyone, I'm joking on both accounts}.

Would "Im not free to discuss my day" suffice?

.

 

[danb]

Since SB737 still has not moved, I think this confirms the Sun is just being confusing. HB786 is the one they are rolling with.

Except neither has moved (on the website). Maybe the reporting got ahead of the facts. The facts though were very oddly specific. I do have another theory which I will allow to ripen for a week.