(2) Questions: 1 Ammo Purchase 2 Airline rules...

[derrickonline]

All:

In anticipation of my Wed. first gun pick up I've already been working on my Florida CCW permit which is suppose to be good in like 30 states (including Virginia). Anyway I had a couple of questions.

1. I was wondering what sort of ammo to buy for the Stoeger Cougar 8000 9MM? Prices vary greatly and I wouldn't know a +P from a -P if it smacked me in the face. Do I go with (Full Metal Jacket) FMJ, Frangible, or Hollow Points???

I don't see much point in spending a lot of money on something I'm going to shoot at targets with but here are some considerations I'd like you to take when suggesting ammo...
A: I would like ammo for the range that's cheap but effective, and won't damage my gun (if that's possible). I saw some $8.00 ammo it was called brown bear and it was full metal jacket. Any good? Any reason I wouldn't use this at the range?


PS: I tend to type as fast as I speak but unfortunately it shows in my typing. Hope we don't have any English majors here.

B: For my home I understand there is special ammo (frangible)? that won't penetrate walls and kill my daughter or neighbor while sleeping should an intruder come into my home but is still effective and putting a bad guy down.


Next: Does anyone have any recommendations for transporting a handgun and ammo on a flight. I've contacted BWI and my airline and they gave me the run down but any suggestions or beware ofs (other than the obvious hey don't take a loaded gun through the metal detectors??

The TSA agent worried me and didn't sound extremely knowledgeable, while the airline sounded much more knowledgeable on the issue.

 

[Jaybeez]

+p or +p+ will be labeled as such on the box. They are hotter loads, and are not recommended in some firearms.

FMJ is usually the cheapest, and because of the "ball" nose, it will feed easily. Its the best for bulk practice because of the cost. It has some lead exposed on the base of the bullet, so certain indoor ranges wont allow it.
Walmart winchester white box, or dicks/bass pro/gander REM UMC bulk packs are the cheapest. The bear and wold are sometimes cheaper, but they are russian, and because of the roughness of the cases, sometimes they will not feed. Buy a box and try it out, some guns like them, some dont.

Hollow points vary greatly. http://www.theboxotruth.com/ Does some informal testing of various ammo, and it a really cool site for beginners. The "recommended best" load for 9mm personal defense is usually 124 grain +p, as it tends to perform the best in ballistic geletin tests. IF you pick a hollowpoint ammo for self defense, buy a few boxes to test in your handgun. The different weight and load will effect the aim, and the flat nose of a hollow point will sometime misfeed in certain handguns, so always try that ammo first before you trust it. ONe brand of hollow point might work, and another might not. If you have more then one magazine, try all your magazines, even that can make a difference.
Winchester Rangers, speer gold dots, ect.

Frangible ammo is considered junk usually. If it wont penetrate a wall, it wont penetrate a crack head in a coat. Box of truth does some testing of this stuff too, with poor results. Its also usually extremely expensive.



My recommendation for transporting a handgun on a flight is "Don't". I've never done it, but i've read alot of horror stories. Thats typical, one bad experience with anything gets shared with the world. But the re occurring theme is that the tsa agents dont even know the rules, make them up on the spot,do things backwards, or completely wrong. I've read about several guns being stolen from luggage. I wouldn't trust airport security for directions to the bathroom, much less with my guns.

 

[wilcam47]

I wouldnt recommend taking ammo on a flight....you can always get some ammo at your destination...just one less ass pain to go through at the airport. the gun I would have in a separate locked case...slide off, and mag out just to be safe.

 

[Drmsparks]

Unloaded gun in a locked case in checked baggage, ammo in factory containers, also checked. No loaded mags. Must be declared at check in, usually a statement needs to be signed stating the weapon is unloaded.

Rules vary slightly from carrier to carrier. Just contact your airline after you book the ticket.

Also, if you are flying out of BWI it's ileagal to transport fire arms on certain sections of Baltimore washington parkway. (national park restrictions)

 

[IcedC]

I work with people that fly with company owned weapons all the time... Although I have never done so personally... Basically they say 1st check the gun laws for your destination... Check the airline policies in advance, contact TSA every time you travel with a weapon. contact them again the day that you travel and see if you can reach the person that will be there when you arrive. Be prepared to either ship or leave behind your weapons (i.e. have someone drop you off that can take it from you if a problem comes up)

TSA and airline policies seem to change daily, so just because you made it one time doesn't mean it will be the same the next time

as far as ammo there is a permittable amount that you are allowed to check in your luggage (something like 11 lbs IIRC) they need to be packaged so that the primers cannot be struck by anything. Check with your airline and TSA every time you travel with ammo.

I know it sounds like overkill but its better than having a weapon confiscated, or missing your flight IMO

 

[derrickonline]

Agreed. Thank you everyone.

 

[derrickonline]

Update...I probably would only take my piece with me to states where my CCW is valid. I did buy a lockable case and it sounds like it's not worth the hassle of taking ammo since it's cheap enough to buy at your destination.

TSA has some pretty simple rules to follow. Nothing excessive. I do think a lockable case is required and the one I bought has a cable lock to lock the locked gun case to the inside of your bag.

 

[novus collectus]

...

The TSA agent worried me and didn't sound extremely knowledgeable, while the airline sounded much more knowledgeable on the issue.

I have never flown with one, but this is the general idea I got from others.
Each airline has it's own rules, so go by those rules. They will follow the TSA rules, so they should not tell you to do anything that would violate them and if anything, their rules are probably more strict than TSA's.

 

[derrickonline]

I agree...I usually fly AirTran since most of the time I'm in Florida, but I do plan to go to Vegas as well this year.

I've had my gun less than a year and I'm already thinking about my next gun one that's lighter and smaller than what I have now to make it a better CC weapon.

 

[IcedC]

Checking the laws for your destination is very very important... I recently had to rush to the airport and luckily arrived in time before a coworker boarded because he was traveling to California where it is illegal to posses a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds. He had a 20 round AR15 mag that would have made his presence on CA soil illegal.

 

[IcedC]

I have never flown with one, but this is the general idea I got from others.
Each airline has it's own rules, so go by those rules. They will follow the TSA rules, so they should not tell you to do anything that would violate them and if anything, their rules are probably more strict than TSA's.

check airline AND TSA policy everytime TSA Rules will get you through security, but bottom line weather or not you fly is airline policy... they should go hand in hand but you never know...

 

[derrickonline]

Thanks! Good point.

 

[Allium]

I wonder about the option of fedex? Ship today and get it at your destination when you land tomorrow? If there is an issue sending it whole then what about sending 2 separate boxes of "parts"?

 

[novus collectus]

I wonder about the option of fedex? Ship today and get it at your destination when you land tomorrow? If there is an issue sending it whole then what about sending 2 separate boxes of "parts"?

You can send it whole as I understand it.

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

[Fustercluck]

Derrick,
As far as flying is concerned, I fly with a handgun on a fairly regular basis (monthly/every-other-month) and have never had a problem, as long as I followed basic KISS principles. I either fly out of BWI or SBY, and neither airport has given me a problem.
1. Gun unloaded
2. Gun in hard-sided case with TSA approved lock
3. 20 rounds of factory ammo in factory ammo box. I keep ammo with gun and holster, so I can load up before leaving the airport. One of most vulnerable points is at ingress and egress from airport, when bad guys assume you are unarmed. If you can carry legally in the state your plane lands in, chances are good that it is legal to carry outside the restricted zones in airports. Having ammo with you is no hassle from a TSA perspective, and keeps you from some lucky DF jackin' you whilst carrying an unloaded gun (John Wayne rule #3: nothing is more useless than an unloaded gun).
4. Declare weapon on check in. I have flown all major airlines, and the procedure is identical for each one. Tell 'em you are totin' a roscoe, and they will give you a declaration form to fill out. you fill it out and take the luggage containing the aforementioned roscoe to the TSA guy, who will inspect it in your presence, sign off on it, and send the bag through.
5. Keep the gun in a bigger duffle bag, so the gorillas in baggage don't 5-finger your piece. If it is hidden amongst your dirty skivvies, it will be less likely to be stolen by baggage handlers. Travel camo, I would say. This is especially true if carrying a long arm, because nothing screams "steal me" more than a long-gun case coming down the baggage carousel. I have made that mistake and won't again.

HTH,
Danny

 

[derrickonline]

Nice write-up Danny. I do beg to differ with you on #3 John Wayne's rule "nothing is more useless than a loaded gun".

What better to pistol whip someone than with a pistol.