1st trip to Hap Baker (need insight from Benchshooters)

[S1gnal]

Ok Last Friday ,morning I got to finally get up to Hap Baker and test out the Rem 700.
I got to say that was the best range time ever spent. Wasnt crowded everyone was friendly, it was just great.

Secondly I gotta thank E Shell for helping me mount my scope and for sharing some of his knowledge as he showed me around my rifle. He definitely knows his stuff and I learned a ton in the short time I was there. (BTW off topic Ed I didnt forget about that matter we talked about and I have some folks looking into that as we speak)


On to the point, This is my fist bolt gun and my fist time bench shooting.
Remington 700 sps
Nikko Stirling nighteater 3x10x42 (yeah I know but it's serving it's purpose well)
Remington 165 gr nosler tip

Although I faired pretty well I gotta say I kept feeling like I'm missing some fundamentals here.
For one I just never felt like I was positioned right while shooting. Meaning my body as well as my shoulders with relation to the bench.
I'm also going to take my Binocs next week because the spotting scopes they had thee were good at 50 but at 100 I couldn't see my shots so I had no idea what adjustments to make until after i walked down range

Also I just couldnt seem to get it right with the damn sand bags. First they seemed to high in the front then too low, I was constantly readjusting everything. I also must admit I need to learn how to properly brace the gun against my shoulder to control recoil better, so that I can stay on target for follow up shots. As time went on it got worst and a you'll see with my shot placements frustration began to set in.

anyway..on with the pics. Any and all comments are def welcome..

1st group at 50yd

2nd group at 50yd

1st at 100yd

2nd at 100yd

There was one last target where I switched to some 185gr Winchester..but uhmm ..lets just say they weent good at all so tha target never made it home

 

[wilcam47]

looks about one click low and one to the right...breathing and trigger pull will give you erratic shooting and or loose screws on the scope etc...getting used to that will just take practice.

 

[3rdRcn]

What caliber are you shooting?

Ammo will play a huge part in the groups you get, my 700P will shoot sub 1" MOA at 100 and 1" MOA at 200 with FGMM 168 gr, but goes to 1 1/2" MOA at 100 with BH match 168gr. Typical hunting ammo is not the greatest to get tight groups with, just some thoughts. I'm going to the range today to shoot and will get some pics of the difference in the two ammo's to show you. Try different powders and loads to find the one your gun likes best if you are a reloader. If shooting factory ammo I would stay with a match grade ammo for the best results, if you are looking for hunting ammo then buy a bunch of different stuff and start shooting to see which one if any that your gun likes best.

 

[E.Shell]

S1gnal, it looks like you're on the right track and your rig is showing promise. Most bullets are in a group, but a few erratic shots make it seem worse than it really is. I would disregard the last group and use that type of ammo for position (slung sitting/prone), since your rifle does not seem to like it.

looks about one minute up and one half minute to the right...

Fixed it for you.

breathing and trigger pull will give you erratic shooting

Absolutely.

Some other things to look at would be:
1) Use a firm "handshake" grip on the stock. Don't strangle it, and don't let your thumb come too far over the grip, since that makes it very easy to influence the group position with thumb pressure.
2) Firm shoulder pressure is very critical with lighter rifles and less rigid stocks. Pull the rifle butt back into your shoulder with the last three fingers of the shooting hand. Use enough pressure to minimize jumping under recoil.
4) Get your shoulder behind the rifle and pay attention to which way it recoils. if it jumps left, move your body left.
5) The benches anywhere don't fit everyone. You may need to adjust the stool position further back to get comfy. With your larger stature, I wouldn't be surprised to see that you're a little too far forward and are unable to really get behind the butt.
6) Let the bags do the work. Set your front bags up to solidly support the forend. The rear bag(s) should be positioned in such a way to fully support the rifle on target. Pack the bags down firmly and rest the rifle directly on the bags. Use your left hand on the rear bag to gently fine adjust the reticle on target. A rifle properly set up on the bags will require no muscular effort to stay on target, and will slide straight back under recoil. If the rifle has to be wrestled on the bags to bring the crosshair on target, that shot will leave the group.
7) Trigger control is critical, and more so with lighter rifles. Your trigger pressure should be applied with the fingertip and should be "press, hold, press, hold", maintaining sight alignment, until the rifle fires.

With the relatively flexible SPS stock, your added care in setting up the rifle in a stress-free position should show visible result on target.

I have assumed above you're using sandbags to support the front. If you're shooting a bipod at Hap Baker:
1) Don't let the legs touch the raised wood rail in front. While bipod preload usually helps, you won't get pressure squarely in line to the rifle there and will bounce out on recoil.
2) Use a scrap of carpet, like a small automotive floor mat, to cushion the bipod feet and reduce bounce.

. . . and or loose screws on the scope etc...

Very true, but we used a Seekonk torque wrench to tighten all screws and they were all torqued evenly and gradually to a reasonable value. I am a little concerned with the ring-base interface of the Burris rings, but they did set up pretty solidly. Whether they stay put remains to be seen. On the midweight .308, they really aren't overly stressed and should be fine.

getting used to that will just take practice.

True, it does take practice.

What caliber are you shooting?

.308

Ammo will play a huge part in the groups you get, my 700P will shoot sub 1" MOA at 100 and 1" MOA at 200 with FGMM 168 gr, but goes to 1 1/2" MOA at 100 with BH match 168gr.Typical hunting ammo is not the greatest to get tight groups with, just some thoughts.

Absolutely, and these results with FGMM VS BH mirror my own. The Ballistic Tip bullets are typically quite accurate, but FGMM 168s are really "The Standard". The Winchesters shot above are simply not compatible with this rifle and should be abandoned, with existing stocks relegated to position practice.

I'm going to the range today to shoot

Bastage . . .

and will get some pics of the difference in the two ammo's to show you. Try different powders and loads to find the one your gun likes best if you are a reloader. If shooting factory ammo I would stay with a match grade ammo for the best results, if you are looking for hunting ammo then buy a bunch of different stuff and start shooting to see which one if any that your gun likes best.

Agreed. The 165 Ballistic Tip ammo is delivering accuracy plenty good enough for hunting, and would be an effective hunting load, but match grade accuracy will likely require match grade ammo.

Remington is making a match load with the 168 Sierra MatchKing that is a clone of the FGMM 168s, but I have not shot any of it myself. BassPro had it in stock a couple weeks ago, and it's likely worth a try. Also, I have some FGMM 168s around if you'd like to borrow a box to try. You can replace them later with FGMM 168s, 175s or the Remington match ammo.

Also USArmorment (http://www.usarmorment.com/) has a special on FGMM 175s for $26/box. This is a good price on ammo that is not usually quite as accurate as their 168 load at closer ranges, but does much better at extended ranges and also much better than most hunting ammo at any distance. I typically see 1/2 moa with 168s and 3/4 moa with 175s from the same rifles.

I think you're on the right track S1gnal. Your biggest group with non-Winchester ammo was not much more than 1-1/2 moa, and most of those are well clustered. With a little more attention to your shooting position and technique, you should start seeing better results with the Ballistic Tip load you're using, and going to good match ammo will improve that even more.

 

[S1gnal]

Thanks all.
I'm actually going to print this thread so I can take those pointers with me as sort of a checklist.

1) Use a firm "handshake" grip on the stock. Don't strangle it, and don't let your thumb come too far over the grip, since that makes it very easy to influence the group position with thumb pressure.

yup, this is one of the things I need to work on.

5) The benches anywhere don't fit everyone. You may need to adjust the stool position further back to get comfy. With your larger stature, I wouldn't be surprised to see that you're a little too far forward and are unable to really get behind the butt.

You would be absolutely correct on that one.

Ed, the glass is working well. Everything is still snug, no loose screws or anything. But I definitely see myself getting something with a higher magnification in the next few months, once I get used to everything.
I'm also going to ditch the Blackhawk cheek pad I got. I used it for a bit but the comb seemed to be way to high for my liking. I actually had to cant it to the side a bit to be able to use it.


Hopefully I can get another free Friday to go back to the range and get some more time in. I swear I could spend an entire day shooting there. (or at least until ammo ran out)

 

[3rdRcn]

The difference in the ammo:

As promised, I went out and shot some paper and compared FGMM 168gr to BH 168gr match ammo. While both are very capable ammo it seems my remingtom 700P likes the FGMM over the Black Hills. Contrasting that, my super match M1A likes Black Hills over the FGMM, go figure, I can't just buy one type and shoot it in both rifles.

The Rifle: Remington 700P, HS precision stock w/adjustable LOP and Adjustable cheek height, Timney trigger set at 2 1/2lbs, Badger M5 trigger guard and 10 round mag., Badger tactical bolt handle, Loopy MkIV 8.5-25X50 LR/T sitting on badger hardware. Click on images to see full view.



The targets: The orange circles are 1" diameter.





3 shot groups mostly except for a couple sighters on the black hills in the upper left target. I shot the FGMM first then 2 sighters with the black hills, dialed it in and shot the rest at 3 shot groups.

 

[hole punch]

holy crap i just got schooled.

too bad you guys are all 100 miles away.

i have alot to learn in this sport yet.

 

[S1gnal]

I thought Black Hills was supposed to be top of the line? Well at least from the talk Ive heard.
I went to Bass Pro today they were out of the Federal stuff so I ended up getting two boxes of Hornady Custom 165gr after a conversation I had with a fella who also had a 700 similar to mine.
I also bought some snap caps so Ill be doing as much snapping in this week as time will allow to work on my trigger control and breathing.


3rdRcn, kind of off topic, but do you have another shot of your rig so I can see the adjustable cheek rest on that stock?

 

[3rdRcn]

I thought Black Hills was supposed to be top of the line? Well at least from the talk Ive heard.

They are, thats kinda the point, my M1A shoots them better than it shoots the FGMM. It really depends on what a given rifle likes to eat, each one can be different. Find the ammo your gun likes to shoot, the great part about finding it is having a good excuse to go to the range.

3rdRcn, kind of off topic, but do you have another shot of your rig so I can see the adjustable cheek rest on that stock?

Maybe this will show it better.

 

[S1gnal]

Ok, Newb question here. Even with out getting a stock that has that built in, is it possible to get a smith to install one on a factory synth stock.
I think that would fit the bill, because like I said the Blackhawk cheek pad I got isn't working, and there is no adjusting that thing.

BTW, aren't you glad I gave you a reason to post another pic.

 

[3rdRcn]

Ok, Newb question here. Even with out getting a stock that has that built in, is it possible to get a smith to install one on a factory synth stock.
I think that would fit the bill, because like I said the Blackhawk cheek pad I got isn't working, and there is no adjusting that thing.

BTW, aren't you glad I gave you a reason to post another pic.

Yeah, I like my new toy.

You can adjust the blackhawk cheek pad by taking out the different layers of stuff inside it, there are three layers iirc, I had that on my other HS stock that came with the rifle, I had to remove one layer to get it to fit better.

 

[S1gnal]

Yeah, I like my new toy.

You can adjust the blackhawk cheek pad by taking out the different layers of stuff inside it, there are three layers iirc, I had that on my other HS stock that came with the rifle, I had to remove one layer to get it to fit better.

.......yeah layers, right. I knew that

 

[bean93x]

holy crap i just got schooled.

too bad you guys are all 100 miles away.

i have alot to learn in this sport yet.

im prolly 15 minutes up the road from you. i may be young but i know my shit.
even if i have poor grammar usage over the internet

As promised, I went out and shot some paper and compared FGMM 168gr to BH 168gr match ammo. While both are very capable ammo it seems my remingtom 700P likes the FGMM over the Black Hills. Contrasting that, my super match M1A likes Black Hills over the FGMM, go figure, I can't just buy one type and shoot it in both rifles.

The Rifle: Remington 700P, HS precision stock w/adjustable LOP and Adjustable cheek height, Timney trigger set at 2 1/2lbs, Badger M5 trigger guard and 10 round mag., Badger tactical bolt handle, Loopy MkIV 8.5-25X50 LR/T sitting on badger hardware. Click on images to see full view.



The targets: The orange circles are 1" diameter.





3 shot groups mostly except for a couple sighters on the black hills in the upper left target. I shot the FGMM first then 2 sighters with the black hills, dialed it in and shot the rest at 3 shot groups.

HOLY CRAP! thats a hawt rifle you gots there

care if i ask how many $ you put in that?

 

[3rdRcn]

HOLY CRAP! thats a hawt rifle you gots there

care if i ask how many $ you put in that?

Thanks Bean! Around 3k.

 

[E.Shell]

Nice rig Terry, and good shooting! That new stock does look good!

. . . Find the ammo your gun likes to shoot, the great part about finding it is having a good excuse to go to the range.

That's the option when one doesn't handload to tailor a load to the rifle, you just need to shoot a few different factory loads to find an ammo type that is most compatible with your own rifle. Except my .260, which shoots BH 139s (custom loaded for GA Precision) into 1/2 moa, nothing else I have shoots BH well. Many people DO have excellent results with both their .223 and their .308 match ammo. It's really no telling how it will shoot until you try, but for someone to unequivocally state that it does or does not shoot well simply means they either haven't tried enough rifles to find one that will shoot it, or one that won't shoot it.

S1gnal, Fulton Armory may have some BH in stock if you want to source some locally to try out. They used to stock a lot of it, but have cut back on advertising it due to availability problems of late. They're switching over to Hornady and that 168 A-Max ammo is typically quite accurate, and the 168 A-max does a better job at longer ranges than the 168 SMK. AFAIK, and FGMM 168 will have to be ordered, I don't know of anyone stocking it locally.


Hole Punch, check your PMs.

 

[JasonMD85]

holy crap i just got schooled.

too bad you guys are all 100 miles away.

i have alot to learn in this sport yet.

You aren't lying. Growing up with uncles that say "Here, go hit some cans" than proceed to drink and forget your shooting, doesn't do much to help one improve over the years I need to get into rifles more, but I need something a little cheaper to feed first. The SKS is in pieces on my floor, the 30-30 is too expensive to blow at the range every week. Guess I could take the henry out until I get rid of this darn alpine and buy a Saiga.

 

[3rdRcn]

Thanks Ed, it's ready to go me thinks. White Marsh arms usually has BH and FGMM in stock and the price is reasonable as well. Jeep will usually have some sent over to continental for me when I need it since they are about 10 minutes down the street from work.

The new stock actually took 2 less clicks of elevation than it did before at 200, kinda surprised me. I have her pretty much dialed in and data recorded for the 200, I can't wait to get her set out for the 300 at delmarva. Since delmarva is nice and flat I think I will recheck my dope settings, my range has a bit of downhill to the 100 and 200 so it'll be nice to check her out on a flat plain. I'm seriously considering getting back into reloading for this rifle. If for no other reason than to try and get her to one ragged hole.

JasonMD85, I practice quite a bit with my CZ452 in .22 and a savage 93 in .22WMR, these two rifles give me cheap practice on breathing and trigger control.