1911 - a little help please

[a81lp]

Today i had the gun (not shooting), I released the slide and the hammer followed most of the way back. This was with no mag on it. I did it a few more times , and it did it again. I put in an empty magand racked and released the slide a whole bunch of times. It happened again a few times.

I have taken the Tactical to the range once, fired 50 rds. Did not have or notice any issues. And I didnt notice this before.

I guess my ? is what should I do. Is this a common occurrance. Am i doing something wrong. Any Help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Slimjim]

IF you value your 1911, you'll stop dropping the slide on a empty chamber.

 

[terryhimself]

This indicates that the sear is not engaging the full cock notch properly. It generally shows up on 1911's witch have had the actions worked on to lighten the trigger pull. It does not occur when actually firing because the disconnector prevents the hammer from falling when the trigger is at the rear. I would have a gunsmith check it out.

 

[Slimjim]

This indicates that the sear is not engaging the full cock notch properly. It generally shows up on 1911's witch have had the actions worked on to lighten the trigger pull. It does not occur when actually firing because the disconnector prevents the hammer from falling when the trigger is at the rear. I would have a gunsmith check it out.

Or one where the owner keeps dropping the slide closed on an empty gun. (Was looking for an explanation online to post)

 

[a81lp]

IF you value your 1911, you'll stop dropping the slide on a empty chamber.

i dont normally make a habbit of dropping the slide on any firearm. but i did it once and the hammer followed and i had to see what was going on

 

[terryhimself]

I have carried 1911's on a daily basis for about 43 yeard. I have run the slide closed on an empty chamber somewhere between 1,000 or more times. I have never noticed any adverse wear or damage to the pistols. What exact damage does this cause?

 

[wilcam47]

I have carried 1911's on a daily basis for about 43 yeard. I have run the slide closed on an empty chamber somewhere between 1,000 or more times. I have never noticed any adverse wear or damage to the pistols. What exact damage does this cause?

likewise....I am also curious about this...theres only one pistol I own that says to never dry fire it but says nothing about dropping the slide on an empty chamber....

 

[Blazin]

For a 1911, particularly one with a light trigger pull, dropping the slide on an empty chamber damages the delicate hammer/sear engagement and will eventually result in the hammer falling (usually to half cock) when dropping the slide, this is called hammer follow. At first this condition will rear it's ugly head only when dropping the slide on an empty chamber, but eventually it will occur when shooting. It's often compared to pulling a bow string and letting go without an arrow in place. It's a good practice not to do it on any 1911.

I run 2.25 lb triggers on my 1911's so I deal with this phenomena about once every 10-15k rounds.

 

[terryhimself]

I got to say,that's a new one on me.

 

[a81lp]

I sent an email to Ivan @ armscor, more than likey going to send it to them.

 

[Magnumite]

What is actually occuring is trigger bump. The lighter trigger pull, the more likely you'll encounter this.

The slide's velocity and momentum is greater when not feed around becuse there is less resistance to its forward movement. When it slams shut its momentum drives the frame assembly forward with it. The trigger wants to stay where it is (inertia). This results in the frame moving ahead of the trigger enough to trip the sear (same as the trigger being pulled back "just enough"). Now the hammer slams the half cock notch against the sear nose and as the others have stated, causes damage to the honed surfaces.

Try the same thing (still shouldn't let it slam shut on empty chamber) with an UNLOADED pistol and with the trigger held back. If the hammer doesn't drop, it demonstrates you have trigger bump since it didn't drop with trigger inertia out of the picture.

Again, as the others stated, damage from dropping the slide on an empty chamber and causing hammer follow can lead to the same thing when firing the pistol - or even doubling or full auto. So you need to not do it or seek a smiff to correct the issue. Personally, I'd get it corrected then not do it anymore.

If those overtravel screws on those triggers are set too deep, we are really talking major damage.

 

[alucard0822]

What is actually occuring is trigger bump. The lighter trigger pull, the more likely you'll encounter this.

The slide's velocity and momentum is greater when not feed around becuse there is less resistance to its forward movement. When it slams shut its momentum drives the frame assembly forward with it. The trigger wants to stay where it is (inertia). This results in the frame moving ahead of the trigger enough to trip the sear (same as the trigger being pulled back "just enough"). Now the hammer slams the half cock notch against the sear nose and as the others have stated, causes damage to the honed surfaces.

Try the same thing (still shouldn't let it slam shut on empty chamber) with an UNLOADED pistol and with the trigger held back. If the hammer doesn't drop, it demonstrates you have trigger bump since it didn't drop with trigger inertia out of the picture.

Again, as the others stated, damage from dropping the slide on an empty chamber and causing hammer follow can lead to the same thing when firing the pistol - or even doubling or full auto. So you need to not do it or seek a smiff to correct the issue. Personally, I'd get it corrected then not do it anymore.

If those overtravel screws on those triggers are set too deep, we are really talking major damage.

Good post, this is also the main reason for lightened or skeletonized triggers in 1911s with very light triggers. To reduce takeup, the full cock notch and sear nose are thinned, as the narrower this engagement surface is, the less trigger movement is needed to move the sear out of the way, and allow the hammer to fall, a light trigger spring also means less pull weight a the trigger is pushing aggainst the tension of this spring, however it is also holding the sear in engagement, so the lighter the spring, the less force there is to hold the sear in place. The third part is that originally this had a slight positive engagement angle, meaning that the mainspring putting pressure on the engagement actually helped hold the sear in place, so when the trigger is pulled, the sear actually has to push the hammer back a hair bit before it is released, also making for a heavier pull, and stacking(pull gets heavier as the trigger moves rearward. Most trigger jobs resurface this to be a neutral engagement, where the angle is flat, and as the trigger is pulled, the hammer doesn't move, but the notch also does not pull the sear into it, and has less force holding it in place.

All of these factors combined in a short, crisp and light pull also means there is less force holding the sear into the hammer notch, and it is easier for these delicately polished surfaces honed to a perfect angle to slip past one another and the nose of the sear to slam into the 1/2 cock notch, sometimes chipping it, or galling it, either way ruining a perfectly good trigger job. It takes a good smith a little trial and error, and some experience to know exactly what combination of spring weight, angles, and engagement surfaces it takes to make a gun run reliably, yet have as crisp and as short of a trigger pull as possible, taking into account the weight and design of the parts, and what the purpose of the gun is, and nowadays some manufacturers are doing pretty decent trigger work on production guns, and in many cases the sear engagement is at such an exact setting that it will hold for thousands of drops onto a live cartridge, but will almost always slip with a harsh slingshot onto an empty chamber. However if this is a combat gun, durability and reliability take precidence over having a great trigger pull, and it might be in your interest to get a smith to put a heavier trigger spring in, and polish the sear and hammer for a little more positive engagement. At this point, the best bet is to send it back or take it to a smith to get checked, and once it gets back, never do it again.

this illustrates pretty well how the sear engages the hammer at full cock on parts that have been honed (notice thin almost sharp tip of the sear), it doesn't take much to bump the sear off of the notch.