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Old September 21st, 2011, 04:37 PM   #1
Mr Oni
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French 7.5 ammo dosent work in my mas

My freind brought me some 7.5 french ammo at arcadia this weekend i have not seen it yet but he says it wont fit in my mas. This leads me to believe it goes to some other french rifle maybe a lebel?


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Old September 21st, 2011, 07:18 PM   #2
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My freind brought me some 7.5 french ammo at arcadia this weekend i have not seen it yet but he says it wont fit in my mas. This leads me to believe it goes to some other french rifle maybe a lebel?
is your mas a 7.5?


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Old September 21st, 2011, 07:34 PM   #3
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Did he by chance pick up 7.5 Swiss? Only French 7.5 I know of should work in a MAS36. The Lebel I am almost positive was in 8mm but I am not an expert in French firearms. My Grandfather had a guy in his unit put the wrong ammo in a French pistol, blew up and killed him. Moral of the story, make damn sure you've got the right ammo long before you head to the range.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 07:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mr Oni View Post
My freind brought me some 7.5 french ammo at arcadia this weekend i have not seen it yet but he says it wont fit in my mas. This leads me to believe it goes to some other french rifle maybe a lebel?
How does he know it won't fit? Why did he buy it in the first place?

These two rounds are not interchangeable:

7.5x54mm French

8mm Lebel
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Old September 21st, 2011, 09:37 PM   #5
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Maybe like Gunner said, he might have bought some 7.5x55 Swiss ammo, which is for Swiss K31's and other Swiss rifles. I've never heard of MAS36's being chambered in other cartridges besides 7.5x54.
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Old September 21st, 2011, 10:53 PM   #6
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How does he know it won't fit? Why did he buy it in the first place?

These two rounds are not interchangeable:

7.5x54mm French

8mm Lebel
Thanks he went to arcadia and saw some ammo marked french 7.5 he knew vaguley thats what my mas took so when he got to his house he tried it in my rifle which I keep their and it didnt fit. Ive been looking on the internet and yes i have only seen 8mm lebels so it must be swiss ammo


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Old September 21st, 2011, 10:57 PM   #7
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I wonder if you could use the swiss bullets in the empty french brass


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Old September 22nd, 2011, 08:45 AM   #8
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Maybe like Gunner said, he might have bought some 7.5x55 Swiss ammo, which is for Swiss K31's and other Swiss rifles. I've never heard of MAS36's being chambered in other cartridges besides 7.5x54.
There were a few converted to 7.62X51 (.308).


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Old September 22nd, 2011, 09:30 AM   #9
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There were a few converted to 7.62X51 (.308).
I stand corrected.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 01:48 PM   #10
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Maybe it was surrendering and didn't want to be fired.


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Old September 22nd, 2011, 02:04 PM   #11
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Check the headstamps on the ammo (if any) and look for markings on the rifle. I would assume that your rifle was imported (it's extremely unlikely that it came home as a Vietnam War souvenir), the import stamp is required by law to list the caliber. Some importers hid the stamp on the underside of the barrel or beneath the stock to make the rifle look more pristine.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 02:57 PM   #12
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The MAS 36, 36/51, 44, 49 & 49/56 were all originally chambered for 7.5 x 54. The Berthier M34 and Lebel M27, both extremely rare, were also chambered for this cartridge. All other Berthier and Lebel rifles and carbines were chambered for 8mm x 50R.
As Lou said, Century converted some MAS 49/56s to 7.62 x 51 but you will see this stamped on the left side of the receiver. Pretty prominent, hard to miss.
As an aside, there were some chamber inserts on the market at one time to allow the user to shoot .32 pistol rounds in the MAS 36. These would be fixed in the chamber using Loctite permanent thread locker.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 10:14 PM   #13
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Maybe it was surrendering and didn't want to be fired.
LOl yes that must be what the problem was.


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Old September 22nd, 2011, 10:42 PM   #14
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I stand corrected.
No prob BOB.

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Maybe it was surrendering and didn't want to be fired.
Maybe it didn't want to be fired and that's why it surrendered in the first place.

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Originally Posted by mawkie View Post
The MAS 36, 36/51, 44, 49 & 49/56 were all originally chambered for 7.5 x 54. The Berthier M34 and Lebel M27, both extremely rare, were also chambered for this cartridge. All other Berthier and Lebel rifles and carbines were chambered for 8mm x 50R.
As Lou said, Century converted some MAS 49/56s to 7.62 x 51 but you will see this stamped on the left side of the receiver. Pretty prominent, hard to miss.
As an aside, there were some chamber inserts on the market at one time to allow the user to shoot .32 pistol rounds in the MAS 36. These would be fixed in the chamber using Loctite permanent thread locker.
The left side of the receiver should be stamped "7.62" OR "7.62X51" quite prominently; can't be missed if it is.

I wasn't aware of the so-called chamber inserts to shoot .32 handgun cartridges in these. What .32 cartridge did it handle? There are several different .32 handgun cartridges. EDUMICATE ME, DAMMIT!!! This is a chance for me to learn something new.


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"Lou = 1911 .45 snob....Then once you understand that Lou shoots my pistols better than me, you'll understand why he's such a pisser." As per Splitter(RIP).

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Old September 23rd, 2011, 05:54 AM   #15
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Lou, wish I could remember exactly who it was that had the ads in SGN back in the day for the .32acp conversion. MCACE used to sell 7.5 to 7.63 x 39mm adapters but I don't see them listed on their site anymore. They still sell inserts for .32acp for .308 and 30-06 so perhaps they were the party I remembered. I'm surprised anyone still uses centerfire inserts as the heat and pressure usually weaken the Loctite to the point where the insert eventually gets extracted with a spent cartridge.
Also forgot that Century converted some MAS 36s to 7.62 x 51. These apparently worked much better than the MAS 49/56 conversions.
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 09:00 AM   #16
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Lou, wish I could remember exactly who it was that had the ads in SGN back in the day for the .32acp conversion. MCACE used to sell 7.5 to 7.63 x 39mm adapters but I don't see them listed on their site anymore. They still sell inserts for .32acp for .308 and 30-06 so perhaps they were the party I remembered. I'm surprised anyone still uses centerfire inserts as the heat and pressure usually weaken the Loctite to the point where the insert eventually gets extracted with a spent cartridge.
Also forgot that Century converted some MAS 36s to 7.62 x 51. These apparently worked much better than the MAS 49/56 conversions.
OK, so the .32 conversions were NOT French for say, such as the 7.65 MAB cartridge, but commercial crap for the US market targeting Joe Blow that doesn't know any better. DAMMIT!!!!!! Thought I was going to learn something new here today.

Thanks for the research mawkie.


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"Lou = 1911 .45 snob....Then once you understand that Lou shoots my pistols better than me, you'll understand why he's such a pisser." As per Splitter(RIP).

"Lou is like a living, breathing, walking, talking, BIG F-U to Brian Frosh, his puppeteer in government house, and all their cronies." As per ma_deuce.
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 09:11 AM   #17
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Maybe it was surrendering and didn't want to be fired.
You need to pull out the white flag and corkscrew before it will fire.


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Old September 23rd, 2011, 09:43 PM   #18
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OK Lou, maybe I can show you something new, maybe not! Between the wars the French took a lesson from the US Hoffer-Thompson trainer, which was basically a 1903 Springfield w. .22lr barrel installed. They went down the same route with the MAS Tir Reduit. This was a MAS 36 trainer that had a .22lr barrel and a special 25-200 meter rear sight installed. Otherwise it was identical to a std MAS 36. And like the Hoffer-Thompson it used a cartridge carrier to simulate 7.5 x 54mm cartridges. This allowed stripper clip loading and repeat firing but using an affordable and low recoiling .22lr cartridge.
The Hoffer-Thompson didn't work so well and, after building about 15,000 examples, they were replaced by the classic M1922 trainer. The French had exactly the same experience and replaced the Tir Reduit with the outstanding MAS 45 trainer.
Like the Hoffer -Thompson Tir Reduits are very rare, I've been scouring the market in vain since I last saw one at auction in 2007. Expect to pay at least $2500 for a Hoffer-Thompson. Tir Reduits were selling sub $1000 3-4 yrs ago but they come to market so rarely that fixing a 2011 market price for them is very difficult. And original cartridge carriers are even more rare. Most Tir Reduit owners who shoot them have had repops machined.

Photos 1 thru 3 - Tir Reduit cartridge adapter and receiver markings
Photo 4 - Hoffer-Thompson cartridge adapters mounted in stripper clip
Photo 5 - Tir Reduit 5.5l
Photo 6 - Springfield M1922 & MAS 45 .22lr trainers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FR%20MAS%2036%20de%20tir%20r%E9duit-ctg-WEB.jpg (25.1 KB, 139 views)
File Type: jpg FR MAS 36 en 5,5-adaptateur-WEB.jpg (39.3 KB, 139 views)
File Type: jpg mast2aih4.jpg (120.7 KB, 139 views)
File Type: jpg 03hofferdetail.jpg (11.4 KB, 139 views)
File Type: jpg 2681a.jpg (13.2 KB, 140 views)
File Type: jpg IMGP5738.JPG (108.7 KB, 139 views)
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 10:17 PM   #19
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 11:06 PM   #20
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OK Lou, maybe I can show you something new, maybe not! Between the wars the French took a lesson from the US Hoffer-Thompson trainer, which was basically a 1903 Springfield w. .22lr barrel installed. They went down the same route with the MAS Tir Reduit. This was a MAS 36 trainer that had a .22lr barrel and a special 25-200 meter rear sight installed. Otherwise it was identical to a std MAS 36. And like the Hoffer-Thompson it used a cartridge carrier to simulate 7.5 x 54mm cartridges. This allowed stripper clip loading and repeat firing but using an affordable and low recoiling .22lr cartridge.
The Hoffer-Thompson didn't work so well and, after building about 15,000 examples, they were replaced by the classic M1922 trainer. The French had exactly the same experience and replaced the Tir Reduit with the outstanding MAS 45 trainer.
Like the Hoffer -Thompson Tir Reduits are very rare, I've been scouring the market in vain since I last saw one at auction in 2007. Expect to pay at least $2500 for a Hoffer-Thompson. Tir Reduits were selling sub $1000 3-4 yrs ago but they come to market so rarely that fixing a 2011 market price for them is very difficult. And original cartridge carriers are even more rare. Most Tir Reduit owners who shoot them have had repops machined.

Photos 1 thru 3 - Tir Reduit cartridge adapter and receiver markings
Photo 4 - Hoffer-Thompson cartridge adapters mounted in stripper clip
Photo 5 - Tir Reduit 5.5l
Photo 6 - Springfield M1922 & MAS 45 .22lr trainers
Well, looks like I definately learned something new today. Thanks


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"Lou = 1911 .45 snob....Then once you understand that Lou shoots my pistols better than me, you'll understand why he's such a pisser." As per Splitter(RIP).

"Lou is like a living, breathing, walking, talking, BIG F-U to Brian Frosh, his puppeteer in government house, and all their cronies." As per ma_deuce.
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