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Old January 16th, 2011, 10:15 PM   #1
Redcobra
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AR-10

Hi Folks,
Is an AR-10 in 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester always a regulated weapon?
Or, is there an HBAR version such as there is for an AR-15 that is effectively Cash and Carry.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 11:35 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Redcobra View Post
Hi Folks,
Is an AR-10 in 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester always a regulated weapon?
Or, is there an HBAR version such as there is for an AR-15 that is effectively Cash and Carry.
The AR-10 is NOT an AR-15, parts do not interchange in general and thus it is not a clone, nor is it regulated.

That said, good f'ing luck finding an MD dealer who will transfer the AR-10 as not regulated.

Before people start telling me it's regulated, remember these important points.

1. Bolt, Carrier, Lower, Upper, Barrel, and other parts do not interchange. The few parts that might interchange are inconsequential.
2. There is no such thing as a lightweight AR-10 barrel.
3. AR-15's never (EVER) came in .308 or 7.62x51 caliber.
4. There is no prohibition on the action (like the AK) but only on SPECIFIC models... AR-15 != AR-10, they are different.

Mark
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Old January 17th, 2011, 12:01 AM   #3
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I completely agree with Mark. Not regulated. But..... It won't be easy finding someone to do the weapon transfer as a unregulated. Just like he said, good luck.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 05:30 AM   #4
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2. There is no such thing as a lightweight AR-10 barrel.
Mark
Other than that I agree with everything you said.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 07:01 AM   #5
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My DPMS was transfered on a 4473 only.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 07:11 AM   #6
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My coworker just ordered an Armalite AR10 and it was handled as "regulated" by the dealer.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 07:21 AM   #7
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Both AR 10s that I bought were regulated. One is a DPMS AP4 with 16" barrel and the other is a DPMS LR 308 with 24" stainless fluted bull barrel. You would think the 24 would be a "heavy barrel" but law makers don't see it that way.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 07:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck View Post
Both AR 10s that I bought were regulated. One is a DPMS AP4 with 16" barrel and the other is a DPMS LR 308 with 24" stainless fluted bull barrel. You would think the 24 would be a "heavy barrel" but law makers don't see it that way.
Let me correct this post for you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck View Post
Both AR 10s that I bought were transfered as regulated. One is a DPMS AP4 with 16" barrel and the other is a DPMS LR 308 with 24" stainless fluted bull barrel. You would think the 24 would be a transfered as "heavy barrel" but my FFL don't see it that way.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 07:55 AM   #9
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Since we are on the subject of AR-10s... I have an early AR-10T (bought it new in 1995), and recently had Armalite upgrade it to their Gen II spec (for improved reliability). Of course this requires use of their GenII magazines... Needless to say, I now have several Armalite GenI mags for which I have no use. PM me if interested.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 08:24 AM   #10
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Let me correct this post for you:
No I still stand behind MD lawmakers do not see it as a non regulated rifle. An HBAR only refers to the AR 15 which an AR 10 is not and has been stated why above therefore it would not fall under the same guidelines. Just FYI the law also stats that only a Colt HBAR and "it's" variants can be transferred as a non regulated rifle. I know of a shop in Baltimore County that will not under no circumstance transfer any non Colt HBAR cash and carry because that is how they interpret the law. Does "it's" mean Colt or any other AR 15 I guess we will never know..


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Old January 17th, 2011, 08:35 AM   #11
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Just recently there was a letter stating that 22 AR clones are not regulated because they are not interchangeable with an AR-15 in 223. You cannot use the 22 lower to put a 223 upper on it, no buffer tube.
So using the same LOGIC (I now that does not exist in Maryland Law) a 308 lower is not interchangeable with a 223 lower. So it too is not a direct clone and should not be regulated.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 08:52 AM   #12
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Just recently there was a letter stating that 22 AR clones are not regulated because they are not interchangeable with an AR-15 in 223. You cannot use the 22 lower to put a 223 upper on it, no buffer tube.
So using the same LOGIC (I now that does not exist in Maryland Law) a 308 lower is not interchangeable with a 223 lower. So it too is not a direct clone and should not be regulated.
Very true, and pretending that they are interchangeable is insanity. The fact that the residents of this state comply to laws that don't exist says a lot about the way lawmakers have influenced our minds. I find this to be incredibly bothersome.

Tyranny sucks.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 08:57 AM   #13
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No I still stand behind MD lawmakers do not see it as a non regulated rifle. An HBAR only refers to the AR 15 which an AR 10 is not and has been stated why above therefore it would not fall under the same guidelines. Just FYI the law also stats that only a Colt HBAR and "it's" variants can be transferred as a non regulated rifle. I know of a shop in Baltimore County that will not under no circumstance transfer any non Colt HBAR cash and carry because that is how they interpret the law. Does "it's" mean Colt or any other AR 15 I guess we will never know..
Rick's Gun and Pawn in Cecil County told me that only the Colt can be sold as cash and carry. I guess they missed the HBAR memo MSP sent out many years ago.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 09:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markp View Post
The AR-10 is NOT an AR-15, parts do not interchange in general and thus it is not a clone, nor is it regulated.

That said, good f'ing luck finding an MD dealer who will transfer the AR-10 as not regulated.

Before people start telling me it's regulated, remember these important points.

1. Bolt, Carrier, Lower, Upper, Barrel, and other parts do not interchange. The few parts that might interchange are inconsequential.
2. There is no such thing as a lightweight AR-10 barrel.
3. AR-15's never (EVER) came in .308 or 7.62x51 caliber.
4. There is no prohibition on the action (like the AK) but only on SPECIFIC models... AR-15 != AR-10, they are different.

Mark
Thanks Mark.
Yet an M1A in 7.62x51 is regulated.Right?
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Old January 17th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #15
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Rick's Gun and Pawn in Cecil County told me that only the Colt can be sold as cash and carry. I guess they missed the HBAR memo MSP sent out many years ago.
They didn't miss the memo is just how they read the law..

It's sucks, but if it makes them feel like they aren't breaking the law then that's what they are gonna do.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 01:42 PM   #16
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They didn't miss the memo is just how they read the law..

It's sucks, but if it makes them feel like they aren't breaking the law then that's what they are gonna do.
While I disagree, I totally respect their decision to do so. It's their business, and they are free to run it as they see fit. I'm sure they look at it from the perspective of never knowing what the goons in Annapolis are going to do next.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #17
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While I disagree, I totally respect their decision to do so. It's their business, and they are free to run it as they see fit. I'm sure they look at it from the perspective of never knowing what the goons in Annapolis are going to do next.
I agree with you 100%.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 06:14 PM   #18
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I do not possibly see how anyone could read the law and determine AR10's to be regulated in any variation.


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Old January 17th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markp View Post
The AR-10 is NOT an AR-15, parts do not interchange in general and thus it is not a clone, nor is it regulated.

That said, good f'ing luck finding an MD dealer who will transfer the AR-10 as not regulated.

Mark
Check with Gun Connection. They told me last Saturday that AR-10's weren't reguated. They're an outstanding shop and worth a call. BTW, they're at the SHOT Show this week.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 06:42 PM   #20
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To the best of my knowledge there is nothing made in reference to the AR10 in .308/7.62NATO on the MD "assault weapon" list. This would lead me to believe it is non-regulated. I have sold a few AR10's in the past as non-reg.

Approximately one year ago there had been a big stink amongst some dealers come up about AR15 HBAR's not manufactured by Colt being regulated or non-regulated. After going through the appropiate channels I turned over the findings to the MLFDA. Long story short; if the AR15 (set aside NFA) regardless of manufacturer, is in a bona fide HBAR configuration, it is non-regulated.


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