I assume a CETME is regulated?

Sirex · Dec 18, 2010

A CETME is about the only semi auto .308 I can afford right now. I am on the fence. I assume the CETME is regulated in MD because it has a detachable 20rd magazine, and is black and scary. I did not see it on my Maryland State Police Assault Weapons list 5-101(p), but I stilll assume it is. I just want to make sure if I do buy it after Christmas, I send it to the correct FFL.

Sirex · Dec 18, 2010

The FAL is on there, I assume they are close enough to be considered "copies"?

Darkemp · Dec 18, 2010

Yes. Both regulated.

Sirex · Dec 18, 2010

Mark392001 said:
Yes. Both regulated.

Thank you sir. :thumbsup:

Just wanted to be certain.

Markp · Dec 18, 2010

You assume correctly... MD gun dealers will treat the CETME as regulated even if the bolt carriers won't swap between the weapons it is similar to like the HK91 which is regulated. Nearly everything else does.

It is regulated because it's considered a clone/copy of the HK-91A3, not because it is scary.

(25) Heckler and KOCH HK-91 A3, HK-93 A2, HK-94 A2 and A3 <- This list is VERY specific and technically the HK-91 A3 and A2 are not the same as the CETME.
(33) Ruger mini-14 folding stock model (.223 caliber) <- Only folding stock .223 models.

From a purely technical assessment, an argument to state the CETME is not regulated could be made, but no dealer is going to hang their ass out that far to find out. The argument that I would make is that HK-91A3 (like the ruger mini-14 with folding stock) are regulated because of the collapsible stock, and not for any other reason... All other HK-91 models are obviously NOT REGULATED. The CETME does not have a collapsing stock though... and thus is NOT the same.

Cheap semi-auto non-regulated .308's are fairly rare beasts. The cheapest non-regulated .308 battle rifle you find today is the FN-49 for $579 from SOG (at last count they had 7 left) and those were "parts guns" (although pretty complete.)

Mark

Sirex · Dec 18, 2010

Markp said:
You assume correctly... MD gun dealers will treat the CETME as regulated even if the bolt carriers won't swap between the weapons it is similar to like the HK91 which is regulated. Nearly everything else does.

It is regulated because it's a clone/copy of the HK-91, not because it is scary.

Cheap semi-auto non-regulated .308's are fairly rare beasts. The cheapest non-regulated .308 battle rifle you find today is the FN-49 for $579 from SOG (at last count they had 7 left) and those were "parts guns" (although pretty complete.)

Mark

What is SOG? Thanks.

Darkemp · Dec 18, 2010

Sirex said:
What is SOG? Thanks.

Southern Ohio Gun, a prominent distributor.

midcountyg · Dec 18, 2010

Cetme actually would fall under a clone of the HK91, even though the Cetme was the original rifle that the HK was patterned from.

Markp · Dec 18, 2010

midcountygunshop said:
Cetme actually would fall under a clone of the HK91, even though the Cetme was the original rifle that the HK was patterned from.

Right, but here is the rub, the HK 91 is not what is regulated, ONLY a specific model was regulated the HK91A3 (retractable stock and rifled barrel), all other HK 91's should not be regulated any more than Mini-14's without folding stocks.

There are four models of the HK91:

* HK91A2: Fixed stock and semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group.
* HK91A3: Retractable 1-position stock and semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group.
* HK91A4: Fixed stock, semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group and Select Polygonal Bore.
* HK91A5: Retractable 1-position stock, semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group and Select Polygonal Bore.

If they wanted to ban ALL HK 91's why didn't they?

§ 5-101(p) Assault weapon.- "Assault weapon" means any of the following specific firearms or their copies regardless of which company produced and manufactured that firearm:

Additionally there is the letter from the Maryland State Police that upholds the interpretation that specific models are regulated. For example they state in firearms bulletin 96-1 that rifles that do not meet the definition of assault weapon per 18 USC 921(a)(30) can be sold without a regulated firearms form (77R) and that even the Arsenal SA93 was NOT REGULATED despite having an AK action because it was a "sporter" version.

Mark

Inigoes · Dec 18, 2010

Markp said:
Right, but here is the rub, the HK 91 is not what is regulated, ONLY a specific model was regulated the HK91A3 (retractable stock and rifled barrel), all other HK 91's should not be regulated any more than Mini-14's without folding stocks.

There are four models of the HK91:

* HK91A2: Fixed stock and semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group.
* HK91A3: Retractable 1-position stock and semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group.
* HK91A4: Fixed stock, semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group and Select Polygonal Bore.
* HK91A5: Retractable 1-position stock, semi-auto "SE" or "0-1" trigger group and Select Polygonal Bore.

If they wanted to ban ALL HK 91's why didn't they?

The obverse of the argument is, they didn't spell it out like the M1 Garand or the HBAR.

Tconfo · Dec 18, 2010

Where are you finding cetme's? How much do they run?

Markp · Dec 18, 2010

Inigoes said:
The obverse of the argument is, they didn't spell it out like the M1 Garand or the HBAR.

Why didn't they spell it out with Mini-14's, and state that only fixed stock versions in .223 were legal?

I can't tell you why they did what they did... They obviously felt that folding stock weapons were more dangerous than fixed stock weapons. The legislature really had it's head up it's ass when it passed this law because it accomplishes nothing...

The 1996 Maryland Gun Violence Act was a sad joke.

Mark

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/rifle-cetme.aspx <-- CETME's $499

Inigoes · Dec 18, 2010

Markp said:
The legislature really had it's head up it's ass when it passed this law because it accomplishes nothing...

The 1996 Maryland Gun Violence Act was a sad joke.

Mark

No one can argue with that statement, unfortunately the law is what is it, until the law gets changed.

Hopefully our new defined fundamental right, will be seen as such!

Sirex · Dec 18, 2010

Tconfo said:
Where are you finding cetme's? How much do they run?

They are various places online, for about $500-600. I can't afford a FAL, as much as I'd like one. I am also considering a Saiga in .308 but mags are more expensive, and I know it's regulated.

Sirex · Dec 18, 2010

The guns with folding stocks are illegal because you can turn them 90 degrees and shoot around corners. Or if you buy the Australian rounds, they do a u turn to get the people sneakin up on you from behind. I assume the reason behind the folding stock is they figure someone can hide it easier under a long coat or in a backpack I guess.

Darkemp · Dec 18, 2010

Sirex said:
The guns with folding stocks are illegal because you can turn them 90 degrees and shoot around corners. Or if you buy the Australian rounds, they do a u turn to get the people sneakin up on you from behind. I assume the reason behind the folding stock is they figure someone can hide it easier under a long coat or in a backpack I guess.

More so just because MD elects goofy politicians that are NOT smarter than a 5th Grader.

Markp · Dec 18, 2010

Sirex said:
They are various places online, for about $500-600. I can't afford a FAL, as much as I'd like one. I am also considering a Saiga in .308 but mags are more expensive, and I know it's regulated.

I would be happy to show you what I got for $606 shipped to my door. It was an FN-49 and it was only missing the front hand guard and magazine (available at centerfire for $17.) Yes, it does happen to take 20 round mags.

Mark

Sirex · Dec 18, 2010

Markp said:
I would be happy to show you what I got for $606 shipped to my door. It was an FN-49 and it was only missing the front hand guard and magazine (available at centerfire for $17.) Yes, it does happen to take 20 round mags.

Mark

Hmm, tell me more. Like accuracy, reliability, type of magazine and cost. I am very interested now. I don't think they'd ship it to my door however. I guess you have to have a C&R?

Inigoes · Dec 18, 2010

Sirex said:
Hmm, tell me more. Like accuracy, reliability, type of magazine and cost. I am very interested now. I don't think they'd ship it to my door however. I guess you have to have a C&R?

If you don't have a C&R, you would have to go through a FFL.

Markp · Dec 18, 2010

Sirex said:
Hmm, tell me more. Like accuracy, reliability, type of magazine and cost. I am very interested now. I don't think they'd ship it to my door however. I guess you have to have a C&R?

Yes, so order your C&R, best $30 you'll ever spend.

Everything you want to know:

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/autoloading-rifles/be/fn-safn-49-e.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_1949

Basically the 7.62x51 variety is an extremely rare rifle when compared to most of the other variants. It is the only one that takes a detachable box magazine and it is the only one with a 20 round capacity. It is an accurate weapon and the best comparison I've read is this how the SKS would have turned out had there been no budget constraints. There were approximately 2200 built and roughly half of those made it to the US.

Mark

Picture below is the "parts" gun I got from SOG.

I assume a CETME is regulated?

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