Maryland Shall Issue - Update - 10/15/10 - Candidate Recommendations

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  • Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,889
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    In this issue:

    1. General Election Recommendations
    2. Gun Rights Leaders Meet With Bob Ehrlich
    3. Massad Ayoob on Grassroots Gun Groups
    4. Yet another case challenging Maryland's laws



    1. General Election Recommendations


    The General Election recommendations are completed and can be found here. We encourage you to share them and make sure that your fellow Maryland gun owners are at the polls to cast their votes. Remember, we get the government that we deserve.

    CLICK HERE TO SEE THE CANDIDATE RECOMMENDATIONS


    ABOUT OUR RECOMMENDATIONS AND COMMENTS ON SOME OF THE CANDIDATES

    Our Methodology

    When we make candidate recommendations, we are primarily concerned with the candidate’s position on 2nd Amendment issues. Unfortunately, the political landscape rarely presents us with clear cut decisions, especially when 2 or more candidates are equally qualified on 2nd Amendment criteria. We are then compelled to consider other factors as well.

    There is probably no such thing as the perfect candidate. We must do the best we can for our members with the candidates who are running for election. Not recommending the best available candidate just because he or she is not the perfect candidate does a disservice to our members.
    In a race between equally pro 2nd Amendment non-incumbent candidates, in addition to the candidate’s responses to our survey, any personal knowledge we have of the candidate, information from our members who bring their personal knowledge to our attention, related political experience, electability (being pro 2nd Amendment is not enough to get a candidate elected), the strength of the candidates personality.

    When a race involves an incumbent running for re-election to the same seat or a different seat, the primary consideration is the incumbent’s past voting record. Many candidates know how to answer a questionnaire in order to gain the approval of this or that special interest group. Therefore, we consider candidate surveys to be of limited value, especially when an incumbent’s voting record is readily available. Talk is cheap, votes are what count.

    The very last and least consideration is the candidate’s political party affiliation. Race, gender, creed and any personal connections or issues we may have with a candidate are never considerations.


    Difficult Decisions
    This election, we were faced with difficult choices in many of the Maryland General Assembly races. We ultimately recommended some of the candidates District 8, District 30 because they are incumbents with voting records. We were very impressed with the following challengers and we believe that they would serve equally well if elected:

    District 8 - Senate: Dee Hodges is a former member of Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club who spent many sessions testifying in support of our 2nd Amendment Rights. As President and then Chairman of the Maryland Taxpayers Association, she has testified for passage of a Taxpayer Bill of Rights.

    District 8 – House: Norma Secoura returned a perfect candidate survey and has related experience which would benefit her as a Delegate.

    District 30 – Senate: Ron Elfenbein combines strong support for the 2nd Amendment with the energy and enthusiasm to make good things happen for the citizens of Maryland.

    District 32 – House: Stephanie Hodges and David Starr, both presented solid pro-2nd Amendment candidate surveys and both are certainly worthy of serious consideration by gun owners in District 32.





    2. Gun Rights Leaders Meet With Bob Ehrlich

    A group of the leaders of the major pro-gun constituencies as well as invited guests were able to spend some time with gubernatorial candidate Bob Ehrlich at the Associated Gun Clubs on October 11 for a discussion of the former governor's campaign and his positions on our issues.

    Below is a summary of some observations from a gun owner invited to the event who, in turn, sent them to us to share. Other than formatting the line breaks and the bold text, it is presented as we received it.

    Ehrlich and the Second Amendment: Fact, Fiction and Votes

    On Monday night, Governor Ehrlich took the time to directly address the issues important to Maryland's Second Amendment Community, at a meeting hosted by AGC in Marriottsville. Roughly 60 people were in attendance from several stakeholder organizations here in the state.

    The Governor was direct, honest and clear on every point discussed. There was no political dissembling involved. It was a frank discussion that ended after almost an hour and a half, at 9 PM. Keep in mind that while you were watching his debate (taped in the morning), he was getting grilled by us. The man had a long day and was obviously tired. That said, he stayed late and didn't look for an early exit.

    It was a free-form meeting much like a town hall. He addressed some written questions quickly, but most of our time was spent in a robust back and forth. Some issues other than guns were discussed, but I omit them because that's not the point of this thread. Besides, you can read them on his website.

    Here are notes and views on the key topic of the meeting:

    On Concealed Carry in Maryland

    There were no fewer than 50 written and verbal questions on CCW in MD. The topic came up repeatedly, as questioners all found new ways to ask the same question, just in case his answer changed over the course of a few minutes.

    His answer: He's for liberalized carry permits (Shall Issue) in MD.

    BUT...it won't happen in pure terms without a change in law, either from the courts or from the legislature. He was honest about the fact he cannot promise a better legislature. Someone asked about "ramming" 2A bills through. He said (correctly) we need to ram through a more receptive set of lawmakers. The legislature is an example of something the executive cannot control. He'd be governor - not king.

    He was repeatedly cornered on CCW and could not escape it. He was asked point blank about using the MSP as a way to issue permits anyway, and came just short of saying "I do" in terms of commitment. I was surprised because even he noted that he expected things he said to make the morning news. When asked, he said he had a Superintendent for MSP in mind and that they have already discussed opening CCW permits to we the people.

    As for history: his prior administration had a contentious relationship with the legislature and he felt he did what he could, with what he had at the time. Heller hadn't happened yet and the political and legal view of guns was decidedly different than it is today - a few short years later.

    My view: This is a one-shot term if Ehrlich wins. Short of running for US Senate, this is the last race he'll need to run. He will be pro-CCW and will order the MSP to view personal self defense as "good and substantial" cause for a permit.

    On Handgun Rosters

    He was proud of the fact that he largely blunted the original intent of the handgun roster - to eliminate as many guns as possible from Maryland. His appointees to the board worked quickly to add as many new models as possible and that work carries on today. Those who attempted to use this board to restrict guns from the state failed.

    But Ehrlich was clear on what he could not do: rescind the law that mandates the board or the list. That's the job of the legislature, and until we vote in people representing our interests that is the way it will stay. All the governor can do is appoint people who will work in our interests as best as the law allows.

    On Maryland Integrated Ballistics Identification System (MD-IBIS)

    To date, no shell casing run through IBIS has ever resulted in an investigative lead or criminal prosecution. The Governor noted that when he was in office they took shells from guns known to be in the system and ran them through: no matches were found. He promptly defunded the operation as best he could.

    But again: see the legislature. IBIS stays as long as they do. He will again evaluate the system, lean on the MSP and other experts to see if they think it could help, and if the answer is "No", he will either fix it or defund it again. This is purely a criminal enforcement issue. The MSP has said the system is a waste of money and time and a distraction from the real work it needs to do.

    In real terms, none of that affects the fact that buying guns from out of state is hard due to the shell casing issue. Funded or not, that will not change unless the legislature changes IBIS.

    On Mental Health and Guns

    There is a difference between taking a few anti-depressants for a short period of time and being forcefully committed for violent tendencies. Today the MSP can look into your private medical history and make subjective calls - and anecdotally there have been cases of them not approving people for even the smallest of treatments.

    He was clear that in the example described (a few anti-depressants a few years ago) that it was a violation of the right to bear arms. But he made clear that he was not suggesting a blanket approach. When it came to restricting searches to public mental health databases, he was receptive. Ehrlich may not have been fully aware of the issue prior to the meeting. Again...he could not give a detailed answer as he really was unaware of all the nuances.

    My view: He'll look into the matter and direct MSP where he can to use sound reasoning. As for the public/private records issue...I think he'll find that there is a big debate on that one. On one side are those who feel it is an intrusion; on the other are people afraid government will "out" their records to a public system.

    I have no idea where he'll fall and he probably does not yet know either. But he did make clear that while there is a need to weed out dangerous people from the system, it should be done sensibly and fairly.

    On Gun Ranges

    First: there is some chatter out there from an exceptionally small group blaming Ehrlich for a range closure. Others here probably know the details (I am not one of them).

    Before the governor could even address the issue, several people from AGC and other organizations stood up in his place. These guys run ranges, and they made clear that the rumors were all hogwash coming from someone with an axe to grind, looking to make political hay. There was steadfast, uniform and unanimous agreement that this was not something that should tarnish Ehrlich.

    In more general terms, he noted that he exempted ranges from noise ordinances and would continue the same. Ranges are important to gun owners. In terms of building new ranges or improving existing ones...money, money, money. Basically they'll get on the list of things to do (unlike the current administration), but right now exceptionally little on the existing list can be done.

    In other words; he would if he could, but realistically he cannot. He is running on a platform of fiscal sanity, and making promises to build facilities requiring large tracts of land are just not sensible today. But...some state land might fit the purpose and public/private opportunities could happen. But again - we (state & shooters) need to find the money.

    On the Attorney General and the Woollard Lawsuit

    At the request of the Plaintiffs in the case, this was not discussed in any detail.

    On the Second Amendment, in General Terms

    He was emphatic that he supports a fundamental right to keep and bear arms. There was no nuance in his position.

    History is just that: history. He noted that his first administration was during a different time. Much has happened with the Second Amendment since then and the legal framework around 2A has changed for the better. There are things he can do today that could not have been done even a year ago. He says he will do them.

    His first administration was well timed - the world was decidely more anti-2A than it is now. The legislature passed laws meant to disarm the public. He shut them down and made them as toothless as he could.

    For instance: the Handgun Roster Board was supposed to be staffed with anti-gun lackies of a Democratic Governor. They were supposed to restrict guns. Ehrlich's election ruined their plan - more guns got through the board. So many that it is rarely an issue for the average buyer of handguns in MD. This legacy continues today.

    So he didn't give us CCW the first time around, but he did help us in many ways. Credit should be given where it was earned.

    Will We Hear More About 2A from Ehrlich in this Election

    No.

    Time is short and money is tight. He is running on a platform of jobs, jobs, jobs and fiscal conservatism. Maryland is not Wyoming - 2A is not going to win him the race.

    This meeting was his chance to directly address our issues. He cannot spend time and money running ads on TV talking about guns. So he spoke to us in the hopes we would pass on his words to you. The people at the meeting represented groups from all over the state...it's up to our community to pass the word to each other.

    Overall

    Governor Ehrlich spent a lot of time in front of a crowd dedicated to the cause of gun rights in this state, no questions barred (except the ones on Woollard at request of the plaintiffs). The crowd was respectful, but also quite leery of any politician who claims to have our interests at heart. We've been burned too many times by too many people in the past.

    I cannot speak for everyone in attendance, but my view is that the man will do more than "stem the attack" - he will move things in a positive direction. But there are limits to his power. He fully expects to be sued by the AG for some of the things he has planned. No matter.

    Times have changed. Today, a politician can be 2A-friendly even in MD and not risk political destruction. He noted that even though MD is the most Democratic state in the union, it is hardly the most liberal (go north or west to see what real liberal looks like).

    Trust me - he was pressed multiple times about the things we care about. He cannot back away from all the things he said and he didn't give himself much, if any, wiggle-room on the primary themes. For those who think he didn't care about 2A in his last administration: call him converted.

    I walked away impressed with his frankness. He was not there for "happy talk" about guns in MD. He was clear that he stood in support of 2A rights but was not promising the moon he could not deliver.

    What You Need to Do

    Vote. Even in PG, Baltimore, Montgomery. He does not need to win those counties to win the job - he just needs to "make his numbers". That means you need to get out and vote even if you are the only one on your block voting for your rights. Just do it. It's important.

    Do not assume he has already lost. His polling - confirmed nationwide - shows that this year more than any other the issue is voter enthusiasm. Among those who would vote for him, many intend to vote. Among those voting for MoM...not so much.

    As soon as I saw Obama and Biden stumping unexpectedly in MD this week for their "shoe-in" candidate, I knew Ehrlich had a shot.



    3. Massad Ayoob on Grassroots Gun Groups

    In discussing the recent attempt to pass shall issue legislation in New Jersey, Mas pondered the $500 permitting fee being proposed there (that's a topic for later discussion).

    What we took away from his article was his praise for the work that grassroots groups all across the United States are doing in preserving and advancing the Constitutional rights of American gun owners.

    We're proud to say that Mas thought enough of MSI's work to include us in his article.

    "Montana Shooting Sports Association, Gun Owners of New Hampshire, Unified Sportsmen of Florida, Maryland Shall Issue, the Gun Owners Action League in Massachusetts, and many more are doing some heavy lifting “on the ground” at the state level. Your own state’s grassroots gun owners’ organizations deserve your support. They’re doing important work."



    4. Yet another case challenging Maryland's laws

    Charles Williams was charged for carrying a firearm outside of his home without a permit and is now challenging those charges before the Maryland Court of Appeals.

    As the old adage says, "May you live in interesting times." As we've long predicted, Maryland is quickly becoming the focal point of the national gun rights debate and the issues that will soon be settled here will set the tone for the rest of the country.

    Relevant information can be found as follows:

    The Daily Record
    Court of Appeals Webcast (scroll down to October 7, look for "Williams")
    Opinion from the Court of Special Appeals



    Maryland Shall Issue, Inc.
    P.O. Box 314

    Libertytown, MD 21762-0314
    240-446-6782​
    Mission Statement: Maryland Shall Issue is an all volunteer, non-partisan effort dedicated to the preservation and advancement of all gunowners' rights in Maryland, with a primary goal of CCW reform to allow all law-abiding citizens the right to carry a concealed weapon; and to the education of the community to the awareness that 'shall issue' laws have, in all cases, resulted in decreased rates of violent crime.

     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,725
    MD
    I have to admit to being a little stunned that there's no recommendation for Wargotz over Babs. Wargotz may be largly unknown but Babs is a dedicated anti.
     

    knownalien

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 3, 2010
    1,793
    Glen Burnie, MD.
    He was clear that in the example described (a few anti-depressants a few years ago)

    I don't like this. They give anti-depressants for migranes now. Being a normal person who has to take certain pills for medical issues simply cannot be categorically denied just because they are on anti-depressants. And the verdict is still not out in my mind that there is a REAL connection between the medication and people being prone to violence against others. Before anti-depressants existed, there were plenty of people violent against others. But in and of itself, Depression is considered a disease. Think about that. Can someone be denied because they have herpes?? AIDS?
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,768
    I don't like this. They give anti-depressants for migranes now. Being a normal person who has to take certain pills for medical issues simply cannot be categorically denied just because they are on anti-depressants. And the verdict is still not out in my mind that there is a REAL connection between the medication and people being prone to violence against others. Before anti-depressants existed, there were plenty of people violent against others. But in and of itself, Depression is considered a disease. Think about that. Can someone be denied because they have herpes?? AIDS?

    I think there was a miscommunication. He was addressing a situation where a person went to see a psychiatrist and received anti-depressants, not a person who gets them from a general doctor.

    The issue was the MSP inspecting outpatient mental health records.
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Folks...if you don't cut the crap (not necessarily in this post) about how Ehrlich didn't do this and didn't do that, we FAIL. Understand? He is by far the preferred candidate for our mission vs O'Malley.

    I'm a (D) and Ehrlich will absolutely get my vote in November. So will Charles Lollar over Hoyer (D). So will Wargotz over Babs (D). Get the picture?

    Much of what Ehrlich said in Monday's meeting appeared to be from the heart. There is only so much a Governor can do regarding the GA. He can't sponsor the bills, etc...he CAN appoint a new MDSP Sup, he can veto anti-gun bills. I believe he will, and even if I wasn't sure he would, I will still vote for him in November.

    The tide is rushing out and the Tsunami will soon rush in. PLEASE get out and vote, using the recommendations as your guide.

    Ehrlich is still -8 to O'Malley in polls. Not great news. Not insurmountable. Democrats are apparently disillusioned this election cycle (not this one) so they may not show up in the numbers demonstrated in '08. Ripe for the picking.

    We CAN take this election but we need to get off our asses, away from the computer, spread the word about how important this mid-term is, print out the candidate recommendations, distribute these to your friends and give them the same 'get off your ass and vote' speach I'm now giving.

    EVERYONE here must get out and vote in November. Everybody! All of your friends, your spouses, get out the vote! If you don't do this, there will be no whining allowed. Do this, please...bitching here or elsewhere means nothing.

    [/rant]

    Thanks MSI and 'others' responsible for that great write up of Ehrlich this past Monday.

    2010 is going to be a great year....

    Peace out...
     

    foxtrapper

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 11, 2007
    4,533
    Havre de Grace
    I don't like this. They give anti-depressants for migranes now. Being a normal person who has to take certain pills for medical issues simply cannot be categorically denied just because they are on anti-depressants. And the verdict is still not out in my mind that there is a REAL connection between the medication and people being prone to violence against others. Before anti-depressants existed, there were plenty of people violent against others. But in and of itself, Depression is considered a disease. Think about that. Can someone be denied because they have herpes?? AIDS?

    This has shown to be more a problem when giving such drugs to kids, than with adults. Also some disorders such as bipolar can be hard to manage for some on any medication. In other cases you may have a depressed person who also happens to be a sociopath. Some cases may be perimenopausal women. Each case is different. Most are not violent people. I've had depression and anxiety issues for many years, but I am not violent. At age 38, my only "criminal record" is 1 traffic ticket ( failure to come to full 3 second stop at stop sign) and 3 warnings from DNR officers- 2 for me not labeling everything like an OCD maniac for the taxidermy records book and freezers, and 1 for total BS the officers themselves made up. I have never been hospitalized, never picked up by cops for a public disturbance due to odd behavior, or any other such related thing.

    I surely hope that the psychotic behavior of anti gunners does not lead to more mental health related restrictions to RKBA. Yes, anti gunners have some major mental problems, one reason why they "shouldn't" own guns and why they project so much. All sorts of personality disorders going on among them, such as controlling personality disorder, sociopathy, OCD, and some psychoses. Otherwise they would not be anti gun.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,768
    Folks...if you don't cut the crap (not necessarily in this post) about how Ehrlich didn't do this and didn't do that, we FAIL. Understand? He is by far the preferred candidate for our mission vs O'Malley.

    I'm a (D) and Ehrlich will absolutely get my vote in November. So will Charles Lollar over Hoyer (D). So will Wargotz over Babs (D). Get the picture?

    Much of what Ehrlich said in Monday's meeting appeared to be from the heart. There is only so much a Governor can do regarding the GA. He can't sponsor the bills, etc...he CAN appoint a new MDSP Sup, he can veto anti-gun bills. I believe he will, and even if I wasn't sure he would, I will still vote for him in November.

    The tide is rushing out and the Tsunami will soon rush in. PLEASE get out and vote, using the recommendations as your guide.

    Ehrlich is still -8 to O'Malley in polls. Not great news. Not insurmountable. Democrats are apparently disillusioned this election cycle (not this one) so they may not show up in the numbers demonstrated in '08. Ripe for the picking.

    We CAN take this election but we need to get off our asses, away from the computer, spread the word about how important this mid-term is, print out the candidate recommendations, distribute these to your friends and give them the same 'get off your ass and vote' speach I'm now giving.

    EVERYONE here must get out and vote in November. Everybody! All of your friends, your spouses, get out the vote! If you don't do this, there will be no whining allowed. Do this, please...bitching here or elsewhere means nothing.

    [/rant]

    Thanks MSI and 'others' responsible for that great write up of Ehrlich this past Monday.

    2010 is going to be a great year....

    Peace out...

    This is absolutely spot on, and the same people who are complaining about this now will complain when Omalley wins.

    Omalley is a clear and present danger.

    Ehrlich spoke from the heart, and his remarks were not scripted or rehearsed it seemed.

    You know, it puts me in mind of Obama. All the Democrats are disillusioned because Obama promised so many things and hasn't delivered most of them. Let's capitalize on that, instead of joining them.
     

    Tootall

    Feelings Hurter
    Oct 3, 2008
    7,587
    AACO
    This is absolutely spot on, and the same people who are complaining about this now will complain when Omalley wins.

    Omalley is a clear and present danger.

    Ehrlich spoke from the heart, and his remarks were not scripted or rehearsed it seemed.

    You know, it puts me in mind of Obama. All the Democrats are disillusioned because Obama promised so many things and hasn't delivered most of them. Let's capitalize on that, instead of joining them.

    this:thumbsup:

    He was upfront, honest and very frank on the topics he talked about that evening. he pulled no punches and to me he wasn't trying to pander to anyone. Questions were presented and he answered them to the best of his ability even if the answer may not have been 100% what we wanted to hear. I give him more respect for being honest in stating that he is on our side but its not his #1 priority and that he will sign pro gun bills and squash anti gun bills that come to him.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,889
    Norton, Spot77, DD214, and MSI for taking the time and resources to make these posts happen.

    Thank you VERY much.

    actually, we only do it for the fabulous wealth and adulation of the masses :lol2:

    If only that were remotely true :sad20:
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,889
    i heard about that luxury car your driving around in

    You mean the one with 408,000 miles on it that's in the shop, right? (seriously....408k miles)
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,558
    I wanted to say thank you guys for your consideration. I know having to select only 3 recommendations is tough. I hope everyone on this board, in the firearms community, and 2nd amendment supports will still offer their support to Stephanie and I. I will be fighting for our rights one way or another.

    Thank you all,
    Dave Starr
     

    knownalien

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 3, 2010
    1,793
    Glen Burnie, MD.
    I wanted to say thank you guys for your consideration. I know having to select only 3 recommendations is tough. I hope everyone on this board, in the firearms community, and 2nd amendment supports will still offer their support to Stephanie and I. I will be fighting for our rights one way or another.

    Thank you all,
    Dave Starr

    you are getting my vote per MSI. I hope it makes a difference.
     

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