Reloading Makarov

Melnic · May 18, 2013

Just checking to see if I have everything I need specific to Makarov reloading.
I've been reloading Rifle so far.

I have:
Lead cast bullets:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/31...-diameter-93-grain-lead-round-nose-box-of-500

Small pistol primers
Powder coming (bullseye)

And a Lee 3 die set:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/727371/lee-carbide-3-die-set-9x18mm-9mm-makarov

It does not have the crimper tool in the set. Do I need to factory crimp for lead cast bullets?

Thx

IndispensableDestiny · May 18, 2013

The seater die in that set does the crimping.

DocAitch · May 19, 2013

As Indipensable Destiny notes, the three die sets do crimp with a combination seating and crimping die- the crimp is adjusted by turning the die body in and out and the seating is adjusted by turning the stem. You will have to flare the case mouth with the powder die (a bit more for lead than for jacketed bullets), and then use the crimp to remove the flare after the bullet is seated (or the round may not chamber/gauge properly).
If you have a Russian/East German/Bulgarian Makarov, you are golden but the CZ 82 has polygonal rifling and it is recommended that you not use lead.
There are also those who shoot lead in polygonal barrels and claim safety and good results. I guess that it depends on the physical characteristics of the bullet and how often the barrel is cleaned.

DocAitch

Melnic · May 19, 2013

Yes, I have a CZ82.
How long does it take to build up the lead?
If I were to shoot Wolf ammo and alternate the lead/wolf. Does it clear it out?

DocAitch · May 19, 2013

The build up of lead is probably variable depending on factors such as velocity, composition and lube. I couldn't address the number.
I have heard about the method of shooting jacketed bullets to clean the lead out but am not knowledgeable enough to discuss it.
I would tend to reject it in favor of using something like a Lewis Lead Remover every 50 rounds or so. Perhaps some of the others on the board can address this out of experience/knowledge.
DocAitch

Todd S · May 20, 2013

Slug your barrel. I only have experience with 2 pistols that shoot 9 Mak and both are over .356 inch(One is .357 and the other is .358). If your CZ barrel is like mine, the boolits that you have will cause pretty extreme leading.

Go to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ and start doing some searches. It is a very good source for info on shooting lead.

If you shoot lead out of the CZ, pull the slide and check the bore. You will be able to spot leading pretty easily. Might want to keep a rod and brush with you at the range just in case. Be safe!

John from MD · May 20, 2013

I have shot thousands of rounds of lead

bullets through my Glocks, Kahr's and CZ pistols. If the bullet is not too hard and fits the bore properly, you don't get leading - period.

However, if you buy hard, store bought bullets, yes you will get leading in poly rifled barrels. That is because the bullets don't bump up before they get gas cutting due to their hardness. If you make them yourself out of range scrap, you will find that they don't lead as they are a softer alloy.

My CZ 82 load is a Lee bullet sized to .366, shortened 9x19 brass and 3 grains of Red Dot powder. Makes one hole groups at 21 feet, 2 inches at 20 yards.

Regards,

John

Todd S · May 21, 2013

Above post should have said .367 and .368 diameter. Sorry about the mistake.

Melnic · May 21, 2013

Here are pics of my dry run (no primer, no powder)

Sized case
Flaired case
Flaired case with bullet sitting in flair
Seated bullet.

I adjusted flair to the amount to insert bullet as shown by hand.
I adjusted the seating die crimp until the flair was taken out by the seating die. I adjusted seating to the spec of the loading manual.

Pushing on seated and crimped bullet with my fingers, it's not going anywhere.

John from MD · May 22, 2013

Looks pretty good to me but

the real test is on paper.

I have found that fixed barrel guns are just as accurate with reduced power loads as they are with full power loads. Therefore, I load these so that they work the action but not much more. This will give you plenty of pleasure at the range and your brass won't be scattered to hell and gone. :lol:

John

Todd S · May 22, 2013

This is true. Mak cases will be launched into lower orbit if you shoot them full power. Mild loads shoot great in both of mine. The CZ likes lead and the Makarov likes Berry's.

Machodoc · May 22, 2013

Melnic - The story about not using lead bullets in a polygonal barrel started when Glock put out a poly barrel and their lawyers wrote the disclaimers. The lawyers have to idiot-proof everything, including anticipating people who might fire pure lead through a pistol and never clean it at all.

I use lead cast in Lee and Ranch Dog molds made for tumble lubrication, and properly lubricate them. No problems with leading of the bore, so far, with just normal cleaning, but I have a bottle of lead solvent on hand just in case. The bullets that you have should do fine until you are finished using them. Just clean the thing the way you know that you should, and look to see if there are any visible deposits (streaks/smudges) forming. If there are, break out the solvent and clean them away.

Also, keep in mind that hot (fast) loads cause more leading problems than anything else. As noted by someone else, load so that they cycle the gun and don't toss the brass too far, then plink away!

Also ... http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=112980

Todd S · May 23, 2013

You also might want to mark the cases, so that you can easily tell the difference between Mak and 9mm Luger cases. I use trimmed down 9x19 cases for mine and they can easily get mixed up with 9x19.

Melnic · May 23, 2013

I cut up 50 converted 9x19 cases last night.

I have been using a sharpie on the bottom but also lining them up and checking out the height visually and with a steel ruler. I trimmed down 50 and then set up a few 9x19 into the line to verify how easy I can spot the rouge shell. Easy if your looking for it.

I have a clamp on brass catcher I made up for the outdoor range that goes to the table but not sure if I want to bring it to the cramped indoor range.

I still have not made up a loaded case yet to shoot. I need to deal with a static problem on the Bullseye powder. I sprayed static guard on a qtip and rubbed it on the the measuring bowl and cup. That helped, but may have to do it some more.

Once I figure the load, I'm going to need make a custom dipper or select a handgun sized powder dispenser.

BTW, Macodoc, thx for posted that link in this thread. I did read that post of yours before. thx

BTW, anyone seen plated bullets at a decent price anywhere? I dont see Mak listed on Berry's bullets site.

damifinowfish · May 23, 2013

My little P64 likes

hard cast .365 bullets,
cut down 9X19 cases,
3 grains of Unique powder.

But that still sends the brass into the next county

John from MD · May 23, 2013

Berry's did sell plated bullets for the Mak. I bought 500 and they shot fine but my home made cast bullets shoot better so I haven't gone back to Berry.

I mark my 9x18 cases with Dykem Red. This is a marking fluid that is used for metal layout work. It comes in a 4 oz bottle for about $7 from Grainger's. I'm sure any place that sells machine equipment will carry it. It is much more permanent than magic markers. Mine usually last 3 to 4 cleanings before I have to repaint them.

Note: If you are a reloader, here is a bit of advice from my 50 years of reloading and shooting experience. Don't shoot .380 and 9x18 or 9x18 and 9x19 at the same time. Eventually, you will put the wrong caliber in the gun and scare yourself. Don't ask how I know. :innocent0

Good shooting,

John

Melnic · May 24, 2013

Success:

I did 10 reloads last night. 5 Mak cases and 5 converted Luger cases.
One thing I did was weigh the empty cases ahead of time. As noted by videos, the Luger cases are heavier. There is variance from case to case by almost 1grain. As a safety check, I visually inspect all the charged cases before seating bullet. Then weigh the rounds after bullet is seated. I separated the converted cases because they will be heavier and not to confuse me to think I have an uncharged or over charged case.

I had to weigh each charge because I'm using a dipper so I don't yet have a volumetric way to measure each charge consistently

Took 10 reloads to range. 25 yard line outdoors hand rested on a bag. First shot Wolf, PPU then some Match grade ammo (forgot name already). PPU actually shot the best.
I had 5 reloaded Mak cases, minimum load of Bullseye. They shot as well if not better than the PPU.
Next were 5 9x19 converted to Mak cases reloaded. Those shot a bit lower

I'll load up more next week of both reloaded Mak and converted cases and take them to indoor range. Maybe I can make something simple to carry in with me to deflect the cases to my feet instead of pachinko that they normally do.

John from MD · May 24, 2013

The first time you shoot converted 9x19 brass, it will fireform in the 9x18 chamber. Subsequent firings will usually shoot to the same POI as factory 9x18 cases.

Glad it worked out for you,

John

Melnic · Jun 7, 2013

Just finished 50.
Continuing with minimum load of Bullseye.
Bullseye sure is sticky with static.
I will try another powder next time.
Use wide tip Sharpie to mark them for now.
(ouch, that was out of focus)

John from MD · Jun 8, 2013

"Bullseye sure is sticky with static."

Get one of the fabric softener sheets from your wife and wipe it across all the plastic that you use in reloading. Scoops, funnels, powder measures etc. should all get wiped down and the static electricity will go away.

I put a strip in my powder measure and pour the powder onto the strip as I fill the measure. This keeps the powder from building a static charge as it is poured. Clays seems to be especially prone to static charges for some reason.

Regards,

John

Reloading Makarov

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