Non-firearm laws

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Simon Yu

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2007
    1,357
    Rockville
    So some recent discussions I had elsewhere got me thinking about some of the laws related to non-firearm weapons in MD and I figured some people here might be able to clarify a few things.

    First, here's a copy of the criminal code from MD's state laws dealing with weapons: http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/md.txt up to date as far as I know.

    Now, I've always interpreted "dirk knife" to mean double edged knives and "bowie knife" to mean any fixed bladed knife even though those aren't the correct definitions, but to this day I have no clue what the heck a "sandclub" is. Nothing in the dictionary or encyclopedia helps. I'm starting to wonder if it's just a really weird term for batons and the like or if it's a reference to some obscure weapon someone might have dreamed up in the past that scared the heck out of lawmakers even though no one understands why anyone would want to bother with one, like the fabled "ballistic knives."

    The other part I'm curious about is the way pepper spray and the like is first mentioned in the "dangerous weapons" section but later on is mentioned separately from the catchall term when discussing openly wearing things. I'm confused as to the legal status of pepper spray since it both seems to be separate from dangerous weapons yet listed under that section. Is it something like pepper spray was once legal to carry around but then things changed and now you can only carry stuff like bear spray openly?

    Finally, if someone can refresh me as to the article and sections these laws appear in, I'd be grateful. My amazing deductive skills tell me that there should be a 4 and a 101 somewhere in that based on the numbers heading the blocks of text.
     

    VNVGUNNER

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 13, 2006
    2,840
    Hebron, Md.
    any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slingshot, billy, sandclub, sandbag, metal knuckles, slap glove, bludgeon,
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    So some recent discussions I had elsewhere got me thinking about some of the laws related to non-firearm weapons in MD and I figured some people here might be able to clarify a few things.

    First, here's a copy of the criminal code from MD's state laws dealing with weapons: http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/md.txt up to date as far as I know.

    Now, I've always interpreted "dirk knife" to mean double edged knives and "bowie knife" to mean any fixed bladed knife even though those aren't the correct definitions, but to this day I have no clue what the heck a "sandclub" is. Nothing in the dictionary or encyclopedia helps. I'm starting to wonder if it's just a really weird term for batons and the like or if it's a reference to some obscure weapon someone might have dreamed up in the past that scared the heck out of lawmakers even though no one understands why anyone would want to bother with one, like the fabled "ballistic knives."
    It is a type of sap. It kinda looks like the last two inches of a sock filled with lead shot and twisted off leaving another four inches or so to hold onto to swing. I believe it was used a lot for shanghighing people for ships' crews.
    A second variation on the sap is a sandsock or sandclub, which as the name implies, is a weapon of flexible sheath construction filled with a heavy, fragmented weight. The sand of a sandsock may in fact be sand, but is more likely to be lead shot. The covering may be a pouch of leather or heavy cloth, such as denim or canvas. The sandsock is almost universally used as an improvised weapon.
    http://wikipedia.cas.ilstu.edu/index.php/Billy_club#Blackjacks
    I remember seeing it in a book about comic strips in one of the strips about a sailor. I also think I remember seeing some used in some gangster movies from the 30s and 40s.
    sap.jpg


    The other part I'm curious about is the way pepper spray and the like is first mentioned in the "dangerous weapons" section but later on is mentioned separately from the catchall term when discussing openly wearing things. I'm confused as to the legal status of pepper spray since it both seems to be separate from dangerous weapons yet listed under that section. Is it something like pepper spray was once legal to carry around but then things changed and now you can only carry stuff like bear spray openly?
    I only see one mention of pepper spray and it is not listed as a "weapon", but rather mentioned as an after thought like it is an addendum to the law many years later. It only refers to the use of pepper spray, or actually the "intended use" to hurt someone in an unlawful attack. For example, the crazy astronaut in in Florida who kidnapped the other woman had pepper spray. In MD she would be charged with an additional crime under the weapons section because she carried with the intent to attack someone in a crime.
    Pepper spray and mace can be carried openly and concealed the way I read it as long as it is not worn with the intent to injure someone in an unlawful manner (i.e. not in self defense).
    Also as I read it, as long as it is not carried openly with the intent to injure someone, a sandclub, nunchucks, Bowie knife, a broadsword and a loaded antique revolver can be carried as long as they are not concelead. I also don't see anything that says they cannot be brandished as long as they are not being used in an attack. For instance, I think someone could walk down the street swinging nunchucks legally, but as soon as they put them under their jacket they are breaking the law.

    The reason I think it is legal to openly carry an antique pistol or revolver is because in the "handgun" section where carrying a loaded handgun is prohibitted without a permit, it plainly states that the definition of "handgun" for that section does not include antiques:
    § 4-201. Definitions (top)

    In general
    (a) In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.

    Antique firearm
    (b) "Antique firearm" means:
    (1) a firearm, including a firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar ignition system, manufactured before 1899; or
    (2) a replica of a firearm described in item (1) of this subsection that:
    (i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or
    (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    Handgun
    (c)(1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
    (2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.
    (3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.
    There is no where in the MD law that I can see that says an antique, loaded handgun cannot be worn openly.
     

    navycrna

    Smell My Face
    Feb 28, 2007
    1,218
    howard county
    It is a type of sap. It kinda looks like the last two inches of a sock filled with lead shot and twisted off leaving another four inches or so to hold onto to swing. I believe it was used a lot for shanghighing people for ships' crews.

    Thats how I found myself in the navy for the last 15 years. I WAS SHANGHIGHED!!!:mad54: :smack:
     

    ThatIsAFact

    Active Member
    Mar 5, 2007
    339
    interaction between handgun law and "dangerous weapon" law

    I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. In my opinion, the most important part of the "dangerous weapon" statute (Section 4-101) is this part: "(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person. (2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner." [italics added for emphasis]

    The statute says that "dangerous weapon" as used here "includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, "switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku," but that does not mean that anything that is not on that list is okay. Those objects are covered, but so might be just about anything that could be concealed and used as a weapon, except for the two objects that are explicitly excluded: "(ii) 'Weapon' does not include: 1. a handgun; or 2. a penknife without a switchblade."

    Carrying of a "handgun" is, of course, generally prohibited by another statute, Section 4-203 -- although, as novus collectus notes, an "antique firearm," as defined, is excluded from the definition of "handgun" that applies for all of Title 4, Subtitle 2, which includes Section 4-203.

    But I see no definition of "handgun" in Subtitle 1, which includes Section 4-101, the statute governing "dangerous weapons." Subtitle 1 uses the term, but does not define it.

    This raises the arcane question of whether it would be legal to carry (let's say) a pre-1899 derringer, concealed, without a permit. That would not be prohibited by the 4-203 ban on carrying a "handgun," because the definition of "handgun" that governs Subtitle 2 excludes antiques. And, if the old derringer is deemed to be a "handgun" as that term is used in Title 1, then the derringer cannot be a "dangerous weapon." But if a court somehow construed the term "handgun" in Subtitle 1 to mean the same thing as it means in Subtitle 2 -- a definition which excludes antiques -- then it follows that antique handguns would also be excluded from the "handgun" exception under Section 4-101 -- and in that case, that antique derringer would be a "dangerous weapon," and carrying it concealed would be an offense.

    If anybody knows if there is any case law regardng this question of carrying antique firearms, it would be of interest.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. In my opinion, the most important part of the "dangerous weapon" statute (Section 4-101) is this part: "(1) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person. (2) A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon, chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device openly with the intent or purpose of injuring an individual in an unlawful manner." [italics added for emphasis]

    The statute says that "dangerous weapon" as used here "includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, "switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku," but that does not mean that anything that is not on that list is okay. Those objects are covered, but so might be just about anything that could be concealed and used as a weapon, except for the two objects that are explicitly excluded: "(ii) 'Weapon' does not include: 1. a handgun; or 2. a penknife without a switchblade."

    Carrying of a "handgun" is, of course, generally prohibited by another statute, Section 4-203 -- although, as novus collectus notes, an "antique firearm," as defined, is excluded from the definition of "handgun" that applies for all of Title 4, Subtitle 2, which includes Section 4-203.

    But I see no definition of "handgun" in Subtitle 1, which includes Section 4-101, the statute governing "dangerous weapons." Subtitle 1 uses the term, but does not define it.

    This raises the arcane question of whether it would be legal to carry (let's say) a pre-1899 derringer, concealed, without a permit. That would not be prohibited by the 4-203 ban on carrying a "handgun," because the definition of "handgun" that governs Subtitle 2 excludes antiques. And, if the old derringer is deemed to be a "handgun" as that term is used in Title 1, then the derringer cannot be a "dangerous weapon." But if a court somehow construed the term "handgun" in Subtitle 1 to mean the same thing as it means in Subtitle 2 -- a definition which excludes antiques -- then it follows that antique handguns would also be excluded from the "handgun" exception under Section 4-101 -- and in that case, that antique derringer would be a "dangerous weapon," and carrying it concealed would be an offense.

    If anybody knows if there is any case law regardng this question of carrying antique firearms, it would be of interest.

    There is but one case I am slightly familiar with. It was a few years ago when I was doing research for a 200 level English class (Technical writing I think) and I came accross something on LexisNexis.
    It was a case of some idiot who had a concealed cap and ball revolver without the caps on it with him when he was making a withdrawal from a bank. Of course the teller calls the cops when she sees the butt and the cops showed up and charged him.
    Now the arguments centered around if it was a "functioning" weapon and not around the meaning of any of the statutes that we are discussing, but I wish I saw just which statute he was being charged with. Also, even though his lawyer did not try to argue the meaning of the statutes, it could mean he overlooked that approach.
    I could probably never find that case again, but I do recall it made the Court of Special Appeals, or maybe it went all the way to the Appeals Court. The case occured before 2004.

    The way I now read the statute, if someone had a modern derringer concealed, then they would be charged with a violation of section 4-203 as a "handgun". If they had a concealed antique derringer, then the charge might be under the "dangerous weapons" section 4-101. If someone could show a judge that they had a good and substantial reason to fend off apprehended danger, then they can use that as a defense against the 4-101 prohibition of carrying concealed.
    Now!! Let's say the antique derringer is carried openly. Since it is an antique, it is not covered under the 4-203 handgun prohibitions. Since it is not carried concealed, then as I read that section, the derringer is not prohibitted because the "dangerous weapons" section only prohibits concealed carry (for adults and if not worn with intent to illegally harm).
     

    ThatIsAFact

    Active Member
    Mar 5, 2007
    339
    further discussion of antique firearms

    The way I now read the statute, if someone had a modern derringer concealed, then they would be charged with a violation of section 4-203 as a "handgun". If they had a concealed antique derringer, then the charge might be under the "dangerous weapons" section 4-101. . . Now!! Let's say the antique derringer is carried openly. Since it is an antique, it is not covered under the 4-203 handgun prohibitions. Since it is not carried concealed, then as I read that section, the derringer is not prohibitted because the "dangerous weapons" section only prohibits concealed carry (for adults and if not worn with intent to illegally harm).

    With respect to open carry of an antique handgun, I agree with your analysis -- it would not offend 4-101 unless done with intent to injure a person illegally. With respect to concealed carry of the antique derringer, it should depend on what definition of "handgun" is applied to 4-101. If it is the layman's common sense definition, under which a derringer is certainly a handgun no matter when it was manufactured, then concealed carry of the antique derringer is okay under 4-101, because a "handgun" is explicitly excluded from the 4-101 definition of "dangerous weapon." But if a court decided to apply the narrower Subtitle 2 definition of "handgun" (even though the "dangerous weapon" law is not part of Subtitle 2), then the antique derringer would be removed from the scope of the 4-101 "handgun" exception and it could be counted as a "dangerous weapon of any kind."

    I hope somebody can come up with the case you are remembering, because it might be instructive.

    This is not legal advice, nor is it meant to encourage anyone to carry antique firearms, whether openly or concealed.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    With respect to open carry of an antique handgun, I agree with your analysis -- it would not offend 4-101 unless done with intent to injure a person illegally. With respect to concealed carry of the antique derringer, it should depend on what definition of "handgun" is applied to 4-101. If it is the layman's common sense definition, under which a derringer is certainly a handgun no matter when it was manufactured, then concealed carry of the antique derringer is okay under 4-101, because a "handgun" is explicitly excluded from the 4-101 definition of "dangerous weapon." But if a court decided to apply the narrower Subtitle 2 definition of "handgun" (even though the "dangerous weapon" law is not part of Subtitle 2), then the antique derringer would be removed from the scope of the 4-101 "handgun" exception and it could be counted as a "dangerous weapon of any kind."

    I hope somebody can come up with the case you are remembering, because it might be instructive.

    This is not legal advice, nor is it meant to encourage anyone to carry antique firearms, whether openly or concealed.
    Good point, it does not say "handgun as defined in 4-201" and it just says "handgun".
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Wow!!!!!

    I found the case!
    On May 10, 2000, appellant entered the First National Bankof North East in Elkton, Maryland. One of the bank tellers,believing that she observed a suspicious bulge in appellant’sjacket, contacted the Elkton Police Department

    ...He also testified that appellantexplained, at the time, that the firearm “wasn’t real,” but when asked if, when the trigger was pulled, the firearm shot aprojectile out of the muzzle, appellant responded that it would. Finally, Officer Odom asked appellant if, when fired, the gun was capable of killing somebody, and appellant responded that it was.

    ...The jury convicted appellant of carrying a concealed dangerous or deadly weapon, pursuant to section 36 of article 27of the Maryland Code (1957, 1996 Repl. Vol., 2001 Supp.). Atimely appeal was filed to this Court
    Appellant correctly points out that a pistol is not amongthe type of weapons designated by section 36 as dangerous ordeadly per se. Appellant and the State both acknowledge,however, that the trier of fact is permitted to determine whetherthe instrument constitutes a “dangerous or deadly weapon,” basedon the circumstances. See Anderson v. State, 328 Md. 426, 438
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 50
    - 48 -(1992). In Anderson, the Court of Appeals explained that such adetermination requires a finding, based on all of thecircumstances, that the person had “at least the general intentto carry the instrument for its use as a weapon, either ofoffense or defense.” Id. Whether a defendant possessed therequisite intent is a question of fact to be determined by thejury.
    Something else very interesting:
    In Shipley v.State, 243 Md. 262 (1966), the Court of Appeals set forth thestandard by which to determine whether a weapon is concealed within the meaning of section 36, stating:
    By a recognized test a weapon is concealed ifit is so situated as not to be discernible byordinary observation by those near enough tosee it if it were not concealed who wouldcome into contact with the possessor in theusual associations of life, but absoluteinvisibility is not required; since ordinaryobservation does not extend to a searchunusually careful, thorough or detailed, madebecause of suspicion that contraband which isnot visible by ordinary observation may inactuality be present
    http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...ap+and+ball+revolver&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

    The case was remanded for a new trial on technical grounds dealing with supoenas and such, but the jury determination of violating the statute was basically upheld because
    (1) the gun was determined to be concealed and it had to be concealed in order to violate the "dangerous weapons" statute as I read the case
    (2) Even though the gun was not listed as a "weapon" in the statute, it still could be considered a "dangerous weapon" depending on the circumstances [for instance, as I see this now, even a sharpened pencil in your pocket could be a "dangerous weapon" if the prosecutor and the jurry say it is :rolleyes: ] and he admitted he carried it out of fear of apprehended danger meaning he carried it with intent for it to be used as a weapon [a jury could also say that carrying the "dangerous wepon" was justified under the same circumstances....I guess it all depends on the jury].
    (3) Furthermore, the gun was a functioning weapon because the defendent admitted it was able to fire and function as a weapon at that moment.

    So this is what I gather from this case:
    (1) I still believe carrying an "antique" pistol loaded openly does not violate the "dangerous weapons" statute because it is not concealed, and it does not violate the handgun transporting laws because it is not a "handgun". (except for felons, minors in some counties, and carrying it with the intent to illegally harm someone it is not illegal IMO).
    (2) Carrying an unloaded "antique" concealed is not illegal because it is not ready to fire and therefore not a "dangerous weapon" unless it can be proven that the "gun" was intended to be used as a club.
    (3) Carrying a loaded "antique" concealed is illegal unless it can be proven that it is not intended to be a weapon by the wearer or under the circumstances (a hunting trip, or after going to the range maybe...possibly?), OR unless it can be proven it IS intentionally worn as a weapon against a known apprehended danger depending on the circumstances (a damned if you do; damned if you don't defense depending on the jury :( )
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    I just looked it up. It appears the district attorney dropped the charges on Ted Aaron McCracken after the case was remanded back to Cecil County.
     

    ThatIsAFact

    Active Member
    Mar 5, 2007
    339
    interesting but not dispositive

    I skimmed through the ruling. It is interesting-- thanks for digging it up. But it does not speak directly to the issue we've been discussing, which is the meaning of the term "handgun" in the exception to the "dangerous weapon" law, Section 4-101.

    It appears that the defendant (aptly named McCracken) was a rather eccentric fellow, who, after carrying a cap-and-ball revolver into a bank in a not-too-well concealed shoulder holster, ended up serving as his own lawyer. He didn't do a very good job.

    (McCracken was actually charged the old Article 27, Section 36, which was the precursor to the recodified 4-101 that we've been discussing. The language was a little different but amounts to the same thing as the current law.)

    McCracken was well aware that his weapon was not a "handgun" as defined in the Maryland law that prohibits carrying a "handgun," as we've discussed above; that's why he carried a cap-and-ball. It appears that the trial court must have operated on the understanding that it was not a "handgun" for purposes of the "dangerous weapon" law either -- and if it was not an exempted "handgun," then it is certainly reasonable for the jury to conclude that it was a "dangerous weapon." But there is no indication in this opinion that McCracken even claimed that his weapon qualified for the "handgun" exception under 4-101, or appealed on that issue. And if he didn't challenge it, the court of appeals was no under obligation to address it.

    We will have to look for some other case, then, to find out whether any court has actually ruled squarely on the question of whether a cap-and-ball handgun is a "handgun" as the term is used in the exception to 4-101.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    I skimmed through the ruling. It is interesting-- thanks for digging it up. But it does not speak directly to the issue we've been discussing, which is the meaning of the term "handgun" in the exception to the "dangerous weapon" law, Section 4-101.

    From what I gathered from the ruling, it is not a "handgun" and falls under "dangerous weapon of any kind" concealed.

    It appears that the defendant (aptly named McCracken) was a rather eccentric fellow, who, after carrying a cap-and-ball revolver into a bank in a not-too-well concealed shoulder holster, ended up serving as his own lawyer. He didn't do a very good job.
    He had an actual lawyer. Whelan I think his name was.

    (McCracken was actually charged the old Article 27, Section 36, which was the precursor to the recodified 4-101 that we've been discussing. The language was a little different but amounts to the same thing as the current law.)
    This was 2000 and from what I understand it is the same definition and wording (without the mace and pepper spray maybe).
    McCracken was well aware that his weapon was not a "handgun" as defined in the Maryland law that prohibits carrying a "handgun," as we've discussed above; that's why he carried a cap-and-ball. It appears that the trial court must have operated on the understanding that it was not a "handgun" for purposes of the "dangerous weapon" law either -- and if it was not an exempted "handgun," then it is certainly reasonable for the jury to conclude that it was a "dangerous weapon." But there is no indication in this opinion that McCracken even claimed that his weapon qualified for the "handgun" exception under 4-101, or appealed on that issue. And if he didn't challenge it, the court of appeals was no under obligation to address it.
    I believe this is true. But still, it says "a dangerous weapon of any kind" and so even though a handgun is not included in the definition of "weapon", a handgun may still fall under the "deangerous weapon of any kind" mention. If this is true, then technically someone caught with a concealed and loaded regulated handgun could be charged under the "handguns" section as well as the concealed weapon section because it comes under "any kind" by this logic.

    We will have to look for some other case, then, to find out whether any court has actually ruled squarely on the question of whether a cap-and-ball handgun is a "handgun" as the term is used in the exception to 4-101.
    See above. It may depend on the makeup of the Court of Appeals at the time, but I am beginning to think that even a "handgun" is considered a dangerous weapon of any kind.

    One thing to note, Maryland considers even cartridge revolvers made before 1899 to not be "handguns" in 4-201. Even a replica of an antique firing non-commercialy available ammunition should be considered not to be a "handgun".
     

    ThatIsAFact

    Active Member
    Mar 5, 2007
    339
    it is a question of (possibly) differing definitions

    From what I gathered from the ruling, it [the cap-and-ball revolver] is not a "handgun" and falls under "dangerous weapon of any kind" concealed.

    Well, it is clear that McCracken was convicted under the "dangerous weapon" statute (Section 4-101). But it is not clear to me whether McCracken ever effectively asserted the defense that 4-101 did not cover him because he was carrying what we would all consider to be a handgun. Remember, the special definition of "handgun" that excludes non-fixed-ammo handguns is in Subtitle 2, and on its face that definition applies only to Subtitle 2. Subtitle 2 includes the prohibition on carrying a handgun (4-203), but it does not include the "dangerous weapon" law under which McCracken was prosecuted (4-101).

    He had an actual lawyer. Whelan I think his name was.

    At trial, according to the court of appeals ruling, McCracken ended up serving as his own lawyer, and he made some bad mistakes.

    But still, it [4-101] says "a dangerous weapon of any kind" and so even though a handgun is not included in the definition of "weapon", a handgun may still fall under the "dangerous weapon of any kind" mention.

    No, I don't see how. As discussed earlier in this thread, 401-1 does say "a dangerous weapon of any kind," but it also explicitly defines "weapon" to include two exceptions: "(1) a handgun, or (2) a penknife without a switchblade." So there are indeed any number of objects that might be considered "a dangerous weapon" under the 4-101, depending on the circumstances, but there are two objects that can never be considered "a dangerous weapon" under 4-101: "a handgun," or "a penknife without a switchblade." If this is wrong, somebody please show me how.

    If this is true, then technically someone caught with a concealed and loaded regulated handgun could be charged under the "handguns" section as well as the concealed weapon section because it comes under "any kind" by this logic.

    No, it seems to me that the legislature specifically tried to avoid that type of double jeopardy situation by explicitly excluding "handgun" from the "dangerous weapon" statute. So if you're carrying a handgun (without a permit), you're violating 4-203, and if you are carrying concealed any other "dangerous weapon," you're violating 4-101, but you can't be violating both at the same time (unless you have more than one weapon).

    The question is whether, if you are carrying a non-fixed-ammo handgun, you are violating any state law at all. By failing to include in Subtitle 1 a definition of "handgun," was the door left open to carry a loaded non-fixed-ammo handgun without violating either 4-101 or 4-203? I wonder why the prosecution dropped the McCracken case on remand.

    One thing to note, Maryland considers even cartridge revolvers made before 1899 to not be "handguns" in 4-201. Even a replica of an antique firing non-commercialy available ammunition should be considered not to be a "handgun".

    Yes, but again, the definition you are quoting is the special definition of "handgun" that is found in the definitions section of Subtitle 2, and that definition explicitly says, "In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated." So that definition clearly governs all of Subtitle 2, which includes 4-203, the anti-handgun-carry law. But the question is whether it also governs Subtitle 1, which contains the anti-dangerous-weapon law, which excludes coverage of a "handgun" but does not define the term.

    I found a reference to a 1993 court opinion, Eldridge v. State, 329 Md 307, 314-315, that sounds like it might be instructive, but I can't find it on line.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Well, it is clear that McCracken was convicted under the "dangerous weapon" statute (Section 4-101). But it is not clear to me whether McCracken ever effectively asserted the defense that 4-101 did not cover him because he was carrying what we would all consider to be a handgun. Remember, the special definition of "handgun" that excludes non-fixed-ammo handguns is in Subtitle 2, and on its face that definition applies only to Subtitle 2. Subtitle 2 includes the prohibition on carrying a handgun (4-203), but it does not include the "dangerous weapon" law under which McCracken was prosecuted (4-101).

    I would agree, but I am going by the impression I got from the one Appeals Court case. Maybe there was further precendent. According to this previous case (cited in McCracken's case) about the definition of "dangerous weapon" which is somehow tied to the definition in carrying a dangerous or deadly weapon on school property and how the terms and definitions are defined, there seems to be some leeway as to what is included, and since it does say "any kind" of dangerous weapon concealed later on it may make it ambiguous enough that the court may look to legislative intent on if all handguns are exluded or also included in the broader "dangerous weapon of any kind".

    http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...te,+328+Md.+426,+438&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

    At trial, according to the court of appeals ruling, McCracken ended up serving as his own lawyer, and he made some bad mistakes.
    I didn't see that. He couldn't have done too bad though because he won.

    No, I don't see how. As discussed earlier in this thread, 401-1 does say "a dangerous weapon of any kind," but it also explicitly defines "weapon" to include two exceptions: "(1) a handgun, or (2) a penknife without a switchblade." So there are indeed any number of objects that might be considered "a dangerous weapon" under the 4-101, depending on the circumstances, but there are two objects that can never be considered "a dangerous weapon" under 4-101: "a handgun," or "a penknife without a switchblade." If this is wrong, somebody please show me how.
    Aaahhhhh, but I noticed this a while ago that it may become ambiguous because it later refers to "dangerous weapon (of any kind)". Does the adding of the adjetive "dangerous" make "weapon" a new word to be defined by the following "any"? It is either a poorly written statute, or it may have been messed with amendments later, in either case I am guessing it leaves the door open to some interpretation which makes some precedent on which is which.
    If the definitions said "dangerous weapon" was defined as such and such, then there would be no problem. I still say that it seems that if someone was carrying a loaded regulated handgun concealed they could be charged with violating both the "handguns" section and the "dangerous weapons" section because handguns may fall under "dangerous weapons"......but by that logic it could be assumed that so could a penknife intended for use as a weapon/ The state would have to prove intent by the person to use either as a "dangerous weapon" though whereas in the handgun section the burden is placed on the defendent to show they did not knowingly transport the handgun in their vehicle (or something like that).

    No, it seems to me that the legislature specifically tried to avoid that type of double jeopardy situation by explicitly excluding "handgun" from the "dangerous weapon" statute. So if you're carrying a handgun (without a permit), you're violating 4-203, and if you are carrying concealed any other "dangerous weapon," you're violating 4-101, but you can't be violating both at the same time (unless you have more than one weapon).
    I think you are wrong about legislative intent. The main language of the statute dates to 1866 and has been basically removed, added and then revised since. The basic meanings of the wepons and handguns dates to before the definition of "antique" even existed in federal law (1904-1914 and the NFA was in 1936).
    Early History of Maryland's Laws Concerning Carrying of Guns (scroll down about halfway down the page for the article)

    "SECTION 1. Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Mary-

    land, That Section 30 of Article 27 of the Code of Public Gen-

    eral Laws, title "Crimes and Punishments," sub-title "Con-

    cealed Weapons," is hereby repealed and re-enacted with

    amendments so as to read as follows :

    30. Every person not being a conservator of the peace en-

    titled or required to carry such weapon as a part of his official

    equipment, and not carrying such weapon as a reasonable pre-

    caution against apprehended danger, or who is not an officer

    or conservator of the peace of some other State temporarily

    sojourning in this State, or a railway special agent, who shall

    wear or carry any pistol, dirk-knife, bowie-knife, slung shot,

    billy, sand club, metal knuckles, razor or any other dangerous

    or deadly weapon of any kind whatsoever (penknives ex-

    cepted), concealed upon or about his person, and every person

    who shall carry or wear any such weapon openly with the in-

    tent or purpose of injuring any person in any unlawful man-

    ner, and not for any proper purpose of self-protection, shall,

    upon conviction thereof, be fined not more than one thousand

    dollars, or be imprisoned not more than two years in jail or

    in the House of Correction ; and the court or jury before whom

    any such case may be tried shall in all cases have the right to

    judge of the reasonableness of the carrying of any such wea-

    pon, and of the proper occasion therefor, upon satisfactory

    proof ; and in case, upon conviction of any offender, the court,

    in view of the evidence, shall be of the opinion that such weapon

    was carried with the deliberate purpose of inflicting grievous

    and unlawful injury to the life or person of another; it shall in

    that case be the duty of the court to impose the highest sentence

    of imprisonment hereinbefore prescribed.

    SEC. 2. And be it enacted, That this Act shall take effect

    from the date of its passage.

    Approved March 18, 1904."

    http://www.msa.md.gov/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/000001/000209/html/am209--4026.html
    If we were to take legislative intent further, then the later exclusion of "handgun" from the statute was when the permit section was added decades later which would subject the definition to 4-201's definition IMO which means only non-"antiques" are exluded from the 4-101 section.

    The question is whether, if you are carrying a non-fixed-ammo handgun, you are violating any state law at all. By failing to include in Subtitle 1 a definition of "handgun," was the door left open to carry a loaded non-fixed-ammo handgun without violating either 4-101 or 4-203?
    Possibly.

    I wonder why the prosecution dropped the McCracken case on remand.
    Probably too expensive With a new jury he might have been more succesful using the "apprehended danger" defense, or he now knows what the prosecution will try to say and he will know what not to do putting the prosectution at a disadvantage......who knows?
     
    Last edited:

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    ..


    ...No, it seems to me that the legislature specifically tried to avoid that type of double jeopardy situation by explicitly excluding "handgun" from the "dangerous weapon" statute. So if you're carrying a handgun (without a permit), you're violating 4-203, and if you are carrying concealed any other "dangerous weapon," you're violating 4-101, but you can't be violating both at the same time (unless you have more than one weapon)....



    ...Yes, but again, the definition you are quoting is the special definition of "handgun" that is found in the definitions section of Subtitle 2, and that definition explicitly says, "In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated." So that definition clearly governs all of Subtitle 2, which includes 4-203, the anti-handgun-carry law. But the question is whether it also governs Subtitle 1, which contains the anti-dangerous-weapon law, which excludes coverage of a "handgun" but does not define the term.

    I found a reference to a 1993 court opinion, Eldridge v. State, 329 Md 307, 314-315, that sounds like it might be instructive, but I can't find it on line.

    Hmm, seems my googling is better than yours, but now I am even more confused.

    I found these cases that refers to "pyramiding" penalties, so it seems that if someone has a regulated handgun concealed, they "might" be convicted of two frireamrs charges, but the sentences from both could not apply at the same time as I read it.

    In Eldridge v. State, supra, this Court construed a statute which prohibited both thecarrying of a deadly weapon when concealed on the person as well as openly carrying adeadly weapon with intent to injure another. We held that allowing separate convictions ofa defendant, one for carrying a concealed weapon and the other for openly carrying the sameweapon, where the defendant, in the course of the same incident carried a weapon bothconcealed and open, was an absurd result. We stated:“We conjure up this scenario. Eldridge parks his car on the bar’s parking lot.He removes the starter pistol from the glove compartment, gets out of the carand puts the pistol in his pocket. He walks toward the bar and on the wayremoves the pistolfrom his pocket, checks it and replaces it in his pocket. Heenters the bar. In the men’s room he again checks the pistol and then pocketsit. Entering the barroom, he pulls the pistol from his pocket and at pistol pointcommits the robbery, threatening to kill the victim. Upon fleeing the scene heagain puts the pistol in his pocket. During the course of this conduct he carriedthe weapon concealed five times and carried it openly four times. Under thetrial court’s interpretation, Eldridge could be convicted of five offenses ofcarrying a deadly weapon concealed and of four offenses of carrying theweapon openly. He would be subject to a sentence of 3 years on each offensefor a total 27 years. This would be absurd. We cannot conceive that suchpyramiding of sentences reflects the intention of the Legislature.”Eldridge, 329 Md. at 314-15, 619 A.2d at 535 (footnote omitted).
    http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...dge+v.+State,+329+Md&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
    Turning to the statutes then at issue, the Courtobserved:“When it enacted the handgun control statute, Ch. 13 of the Acts of 1972, Art.27, §§ 36B-36F, the Legislature specifically addressed the matter of otherstatutesencompassing handguns, and it indicated its intent as to whichof thoseother statutes should no longer cover the use of handguns. Thus, prior to1972, Art. 27, § 36, had proscribed the carrying of concealed weapons and thecarrying or wearing of weapons openly with intent to injure, includinghandguns. Also prior to 1972, Art. 27, § 36A, had provided a maximumpenalty of three years'imprisonment for carrying ‘any... deadly weapon of anykind’ on public school property. Finally, prior to 1972, there was locallegislation regulating and penalizing certain uses ofhandguns. In the handguncontrol act of 1972, the Legislature dealt with the above-described statutoryprovisions,so as to prohibit the pyramiding of penalties under both the existinglaw and the new law for the unlawful use of a handgun. It amended Art. 27,§ 36, to expressly delete handguns from the coverage of the concealedweapons statute (Ch. 13, § 1, of the Acts of 1972). It further amended Art. 27,§ 36A, to provide that where the weapon carried on public school property is
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 8
    6The 1972 Handgun Control Act (Chapter 13 of the Acts of 1972).7Chapter 562 of the Acts of 1996 (repealing Article 27, § 448, which provided for athree year sentence and adopting § 449(e), which provided for a five year sentence, in itsplace).8Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2000 (amending § 449(e) to require that a person sentencedunder that provision receive not less than five years without the possibility of a suspendedsentence or eligibility for parole during those five years).-6-a handgun, the penalty provisions of § 36A do not apply, but instead, theoffender shall be sentenced in accordance with the penalty provisions of thenew statute (Ch. 13, § 2, of the Acts of 1972). Lastly, with respect to locallegislation regulating handguns, the Legislature stated (Ch. 13, § 6, of theActs of 1972):‘[A]ll restrictions imposedbythe law, ordinances, or regulationsof the political subdivisions on the wearing, carrying, ortransporting of handguns are superseded by this Act, and theState of Maryland hereby preempts the right of the politicalsubdivisions to regulate said matters.’”Id. at 613-14, 569 A.2d at 692-93, citing Whack, 288 Md. at 145-46, 416 A.2d at 269(footnote omitted). Emphasizing the point, the Court concluded: “‘in enacting the handgunact,[6]the Legislature was concerned with the matter of duplicative legislation. Where itdesired no duplication, it specifically amended or superseded those other statutes.”’ Id.,quoting Whack, 288 Md. at 147, 416 A.2d at 270.Teel argues that the present case is different from Frazier. He relies primarilyon thefact that, since Frazier, the General Assembly has greatly “increased the penalty forpossession of a firearm by a convicted person.” Pointing to the Maryland Gun ViolenceAct of 1996 amendments to the firearms statute since 1990 have drastically altered the landscape uponwhich the issue of merger must be examined. . . . Merger of carrying a handgun andpossession of a firearm by a convictedperson should now be required as a matter of course.”More particularly, he argues:“With respect to the amendments to Article 27, § 449, however, theLegislature did not include language specifically authorizing cumulativesentences for possession of a firearm by a convicted person and the lesseroffense of carrying a handgun.“At best, the failure of the General Assembly to expressly address theissue of merger when it increased the punishment for possession of a firearmby a convicted person makes its intentions unclear. But this would weigh infavor of merger, not against it. . . . ”We disagree. The legislative acts on which the petitioner relies were re-codificationsof the relevant general provisions relating to the illegal use of weapons. We said in PackShack v. Howard County, 371 Md. 243, 257, 808 A.2d 795, 803 (2002), that “‘a change ina statute as part of a general re-codification will ordinarily notbe deemed to modify the lawunless the change is such that the intention of the Legislature to modify the law isunmistakable’” (quoting Duffy v. Conaway, 295 Md. 242, 257, 455 A.2d 955, 962 (1983)).There is no indication in the Acts that the General Assemblyintended to modify the holdingin Frazier when it enacted the 1996 and 2000 Acts relating to the use of weapons. Thecontrary would appear to be more likely. Thus Frazier, which we decline to overrule, iscontrolling. In Frazier, aswe have indicated,we held that “[w]here [the General Assembly]desired no duplication, it specifically amended or superseded thoseother statutes" 318 Md.
    at 614, 569 A.2d at 693 (quoting Whack, 288 Md. at 146, 416 A.2d at 270). Since Frazieronly increases in the permissible sentences for certain offenses have been enacted by theGeneral Assembly, which also has furtherlimited thetransferabilityof certain weapons andimposed additional requirements on dealers. In neither of the codifications at issue here wasreference specifically made to avoidance of duplication. In neither of the two statutorymodifications, has the General Assembly indicated that duplicative sentences under separatestatutory offenses, arising out of one incident involving handguns, are to be avoided
    http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...dge+v.+State,+329+Md&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
     

    ThatIsAFact

    Active Member
    Mar 5, 2007
    339
    This further clarifies the scope of 4-101

    Okay, we are making some progress here, thanks to your good googling. Your quotes from Pye v. State, a recent ruling by the state's highest court, are especially helpful. The court iquoting earlier precedents) says:

    "In the handgun control act of 1972, the Legislature dealt with the above-described statutory provisions, so as 4-101 to prohibit the pyramiding of penalties under both the existing law and the new law for the unlawful use of a handgun. It amended Art. 27, § 36, to expressly delete handguns from the coverage of the concealedweapons statute (Ch. 13, § 1, of the Acts of 1972).

    All of that supports the position that I argued above, that carrying a "handgun" can never be a violation of the prohibition on carrying a "dangerous weapon," because the legislature excluded the "handgun" from the "dangerous weapon" law (4-101) when it created the current handgun law (now codified as Title 4, Subtitle 2).

    (In 4-101, the word "dangerous" is merely a modifier of the key term "weapon." Since the definition of "weapon" in 4-101 explicitly excludes "handgun," a handgun can never be a "dangerous weapon" as the term is used in 4-101. Theoretically, there may be some other kind of "weapon" that does not qualify as a "dangerous weapon" as the term is used in this statute, but we don't need to get into that at the moment.)

    Therefore, McCracken, who was carrying a cap-and-ball revolver, was initially convicted under 4-101 either because (1) the Maryland courts, in some case(s) we have not yet found, have ruled that a non-fixed-ammo handgun is not a "handgun" under 4-101 and therefore qualifies to be counted as a "dangerous weapon," even though Subtitle 1 does not contain the narrower definition of "handgun" found in Subtitle 2; or (2) McCracken did not effectively claim the "handgun exemption" that is contained in 4-101.

    Your quotes also clarify that the case I was looking for, Eldridge v. State (1993), is not on point. Eldridge faced two charges under the "dangerous weapon" law for carrying a single starter pistol -- one charge for carrying it concealed, and a second charge for carrying it openly with intent to injure. The court said that this was double jeopardy and not permitted. In this case, there was no issue involving a "handgun," since a starter pistol is not a "handgun" as the term is used in either 4-101 or 4-203.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    THis is interesting. I just found this:
    Article 27 SEC. 36B.
    Any person who shall wear, carry, or transport any handgun, whether concealed or open, upon or about his person, and any person who shall wear, carry, or knowingly transport any handgun, whether concealed or open, in any vehicle traveling upon the public roads, highways, waterways, or airways or upon roads or parking lots generally used by the public in this State shall be guilty of a misdemeanor
    http://www.packing.org/state/maryland/#stateno_ccw
    Handgun
    36B [Repealed]


    § 36B. Wearing, carrying or transportinghandgun; unlawful use in commissionof crime.Repealed by Acts 2002, ch. 26, § 1, effective Octo-ber 1, 2002.Cross references. — For present provisions concerning wear-ing, carrying or transporting handguns and their unlawful use inthe commission of a crime, see §§ 4-202 through 4-205 of the Criminal Law Article
    http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...rticle+27+SEC.+36B.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us

    It appears that when the state changed the MD code about five years ago they left a blank spot dealing with carrying antique handguns when not committing a felony or violent act because in the new and current code "any" handgun became subject to 4-201 that says "handgun" does not include "antique" and 4-203 does not say "any" handgun and only says "handgun" as defined in 4-201 which brings us back to "antique" not being a "handgun".
    The old version made it illegal to carry openly or concealed an antique ("any")handgun, but the new code changed the wording and the definition of handguns.

    The only reference to a penalty for using an antique handgun that is concealable is in 4-204:
    (a) A person may not use an antique firearm capable of being concealed on the person or any handgun in the commission of a crime of violence, as defined in § 5-101 of the Public Safety Article, or any felony, whether the antique firearm or handgun is operable or inoperable at the time of the crime.
    http://mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/web_statutes.exe?gcr&4-204

    That is all I can find on "antiques" and carrying them (openly).

    It also appears that Packing.org needs to seriously update their sight. They cite or reference a law that no longer exists in that form.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    275,667
    Messages
    7,290,610
    Members
    33,500
    Latest member
    Millebar

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom