Universal Background Check

I keep hearing this on all the news shows and all gun control related discussions. Can somene tell me EXACTLY what that means? Don't we already have those when buying a regulated firearms? I guess I just don't "get it".

The only thing this is to stop face to face sells. In Maryland we can only do this with non regulated guns, in more civilized states you can do this with any gun as long as it's not a class 3

Brychan said:

The only thing this is to stop face to face sells. In Maryland we can only do this with non regulated guns, in more civilized states you can do this with any gun as long as it's not a class 3

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So when they say "universal" they're talking about ALL firearms not just regulated?

tsmith1499 said:

So when they say "universal" they're talking about ALL firearms not just regulated?

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Correct. Just like it is now when you buy any firearm from a dealer.. The universal background check expands the background check to all private sales to close the supposed "gun show loophole".

"Universal" means all transactions.

Universal background checks mean that any gun transfer, unless they carve out exceptions for family, would require a NICS check for any transfer. This would eliminate face-to-face private sales that are permitted in most states. It is being pitched as a way to prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands. Often pitched as "the gun show loophole" as if the laws are different at gun shows. Gun shows make private sales easier simply due to human nature: you go where like-minded people will be to buy your property for sale. Economics at work.

What isn't being talked about in that narrative is the purpose of the checks is to track who is transferring firearms and more importantly, WHAT firearms. The people who want this want to feel better knowing the state knows who has guns and what guns they are. All of these proposals include an implied registry of gun transfers.

So this is back-door registration, pure and simple. But if they called it "registration", the opposition would be substantial. It also serves as a social control, making it harder to trade and sell guns among people, making it more legally risky and creating a paper trail to follow to those gun owners for the next round of restrictions at the next opportunity to trade on the blood of innocent victims.

It destroys anonymous firearms ownership. This is a cornerstone, in my opinion, to keeping the 2nd Amendment viable as a check on government power. By not knowing who has what and where with guns constantly shifting in and out of people's possession, how do you impose your next round of rights reduction? If you can't know for certain who may or might resist vehemently, how far can you go? It is a philosophical discussion but an important one in maintaining the relationship as government being subservient to the People rather than the other way around.

The United States is the ONLY country in the world that this is true. I also thinks it brings a measure of peace because of that implied, if often ignored, check on the government.

The problem with universal background checks is we get nothing in return as individuals. Another expensive and time-consuming restriction. Start tacking on $30, $50, $100 per transfer and suddenly a lot of good deals aren't anymore. And I don't see how it gets over the Commerce Clause as the reason this hasn't been done is because it is a power reserved to the States to manage commerce within their own borders. Not saying it wouldn't happen given how far the Commerce Clause has been pushed but not a slam-dunk either. If the liberals in their feelings want this, I want the restrictions on interstate sales lifted. I want to buy anything in all 50 states. Not that it matters much in Maryland but it is the point of compromise and we aren't getting one here.

Matt

Mpickering,

In the universal background check legislation, have you seen anything that hints to updating the form 4473?

"Universal background checks" means mandatory gun registration and a ban on all private gun sales.
Nothing more, nothing less.
And criminals will still steal their guns or buy their guns illegally without background checks.

Gbh said:

Mpickering,

In the universal background check legislation, have you seen anything that hints to updating the form 4473?

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You'd have to be more specific. 4473 already capture everything about a gun owner and their new toy. It all depends on what is to be done with that data under new legislation. If a universal background check law included a small little clause modifying 18 USC 926(a), hello national registry.

Matt

Universal Background Checks = Universal Gun Registration.

Universal Gun Registration = the Holy Grail sought by those who want to implement complete civilian disarmament and gun confiscation.

If we had a government that respected the 2A and just wanted to make sure criminals weren't buying firearms, I would be all for this. Since we don't.....

Thanks. I thought that's what it was but just wanted to be sure as this term is being thrown around news shows a lot lately, but I notice that they never bother to EXPLAIN what that is. Convenient for them.

teratos said:

If we had a government that respected the 2A and just wanted to make sure criminals weren't buying firearms, I would be all for this. Since we don't.....

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How would a system of voluntary background checks do this? If only there were some way to get criminals to voluntarily comply with the law. Maybe we could use mind control .. no this has only been shown to work with college graduates, that's not the peek demographic for crime.Seems to work on politicians though.... oh but they use weapons of mass media for their crimes...., no I think I am stumped on this one.

This is Rule 5.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals#section_3

google the article "imagining gun control in america: the remainder problem"

they cant take everything, until they know where everything is.when they say universal background checks, they mean universal registration in preparation for unuversal confiscation.

WeaponsCollector said:

"Universal background checks" means mandatory gun registration and a ban on all private gun sales.
Nothing more, nothing less.
And criminals will still steal their guns or buy their guns illegally without background checks.

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Exactly

Jaybeez said:

google the article "imagining gun control in america: the remainder problem"

they cant take everything, until they know where everything is.when they say universal background checks, they mean universal registration in preparation for unuversal confiscation.

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Sounds like John Lennon might be a coauthor will check it out-

The other scary issue of a universal background check is that it means anyone can do a background check on you with just a few pieces of information. If this system were to be somehow implemented, the first thing I would try to do with it is run background checks on each of my elected officials, every boy that courts my daughter, every movie starlet I've ever had a crush on, and every person I meet, basically.

It's a privacy nightmare.

bmelton said:

The other scary issue of a universal background check is that it means anyone can do a background check on you with just a few pieces of information. If this system were to be somehow implemented, the first thing I would try to do with it is run background checks on each of my elected officials, every boy that courts my daughter, every movie starlet I've ever had a crush on, and every person I meet, basically.

It's a privacy nightmare.

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As i understand it, universal background checks would be done through FFL's. Every private sale would require the use of a FFL. Private individuals would not be doing background checks.

If you can not pass a universal background check you should not be respected as a law abiding citizen that can contribute anything of much significance. You should not be allowed a good paying job because you are probably not worthy. You should be on social welfare.

Jaybeez said:

google the article "imagining gun control in america: the remainder problem"

they cant take everything, until they know where everything is.when they say universal background checks, they mean universal registration in preparation for unuversal confiscation.

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A lot of very interesting points.

"If confiscation produces quick and dramatic reductions in gun crime, it will make less sense to risk buying or keeping a contraband gun. But if confiscation tracks the curve of similar efforts in other countries and actually correlates with an increase in violent crime,115 then many will calculate that the state has not provided an adequate substitute for private firearms, and they will more likely defy confiscation."

And the pertinent matter of SB281:

"However, for people who believe they will resist confiscation, registration is the ball game. They should view registration as the precursor to confiscation for several reasons. The progression from registration to confiscation actually has occurred both domestically and internationally. The evolution of supply controls in Washington, D.C., New York City, California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, England, Canada, and Australia illustrates that registration is an important precursor to any viable confiscation plan.

Without registration, confiscation ultimately requires a house- by-house search—a tactic that seems unworkable, both logistically and constitutionally. Registration avoids affronts to the Fourth Amendment. An official record of title connecting an individual with a particular gun is a fair basis for demanding surrender of the gun and perhaps for searching the record owner’s home if the gun is not turned in.

Imagine a confiscation scheme not preceded by registration. How do we determine who has the guns? The best uniform information now available is in the federal Firearms Transaction Record form (form 4473) filled out by retail purchasers."

Just think Obama has had NO background check and he has control of a nuclear arsenal. Makes me sleep quite well..............you?