Western Maryland’ Secession Movement Growing

Alutacon · Feb 15, 2014

oupa said:
MD's environmental protectionists have prevented any prospect our considerable Marceles (gas) Shale deposits can ever be touched. That could change, resulting in the tremendous revenues being seen elsewhere.

right, and we could have some of that good toxic water like they have in WV. spare us please.

whistlersmother · Feb 15, 2014

Alutacon said:
did you hear what you said? since DC wants to be a state, take three VA jurisdictions and 4 MD jurisdictions, which are non-contiguous by the way, and make them a state. and leave the rest of Maryland as it is as though the jurisdictions you cited were all Maryland

sometimes, in our fervor to stand up for our rights we just sound like idiots.

Huh? Looking at a map I see these counties, DC, and Baltimore are contiguous. Well, a slight adjustment for Baltimore City.

I mean all of it is made into one state, not two. Perhaps you misunderstand what I meant.

oupa · Feb 15, 2014

Like so many who cannot compete in a real debate, but instead resort to name calling and insults, I will not stoop to the depths occupied by a certain person with who's reasoning we'd have been British subjects until 1942, when we'd have become Germans! :cool:

Lou45 · Feb 15, 2014

oupa said:
Okay, I've read most of the posts but not all. There is a whole thread on this in the W.MD. forum... if you're interested. Just a few notes though to clear up some mis-information and wrong assumptions;

It must be understood that we have NO REPRESENTATION either in Annapolis or Washington. Sure that can be said by most on this site but all the legislators from W.MD. and the shore could vote together as a bloc and still be easily over-ridden by AA, PG, MoCo, & Balt. Jurisdictions that have nothing in common with (the majority of) us either geographically or philosophically. Our principals and goals differ yet we have no voice in attaining ours. Even our one representative in Congress was gerrymandered away.

The five counties pay approx. 11% of the total state taxes. This does not account for the considerable amount of fees, fines, ect. and I'm not sure if it covers "all taxes" or just income taxes.

W.MD has some tremendous transportation infrastructure that business slobbers over, until they learn of MD's anti-business atmosphere and simply locate in PA or WV. A more business friendly atmosphere (which our local governments would love to welcome) could bring a boom in private sector business and the associated taxes now going elsewhere.

MD's environmental protectionists have prevented any prospect our considerable Marceles (gas) Shale deposits can ever be touched. That could change, resulting in the tremendous revenues being seen elsewhere.

There are pluses and minuses as with any proposal. I wouldn't be so quick to say "never ever" though. A "poor state?" Probably, by current down-state Maryland standards but we are ALREADY a poor region! Poor, but surviving!!! Our counties are getting by just fine. Don't be so quick to assume we couldn't manage our own money better than having it handed back to us as Annapolis dictates.

Also, since this did emerge from the gun issues last session, the assumption by our detractors, as well (I admit) as many supporters, is that it is some conservative reaction to ultra-liberal Maryland and the result would be some equally conservative enclave.
That IS NOT the aim of the main players. No, what is sought is a FREE state, not one that fits easily into some left or right description. It is more of a libertarian objective if you insist on labels. We prefer no such labels though. What we seek is a constitutional state where the bill of rights would be the basis for all law. We seek to include everyone! We are not racists. We are not homophobes and I resent ANYONE portraying us as such!

It is certainly unlikely Annapolis will agree to letting us go. At least under current circumstances. Times do change however.

Feel free to discuss it but don't count us out.

Good post. ^^^ :thumbsup:

Mooseman · Feb 15, 2014

As far as a name goes, I could get used to anything but Western Maryland. If we gain our freedom, I want nothing to remind me that I once lived in Maryland.

oupa · Feb 15, 2014

Names, goals, principals, laws and all else would be the realm of the residents of such a state - as it should be. Keep in mind the United States began in 1775 but didn't really become a nation until 1789 I believe it was, with the final ratification of the Constitution. While we've become in impatient society who expect instant results, this is not a process we expect to happen overnight! Yes, it is a long shot that we can succeed at all, but if it is to happen it will take a concerted and dedicated effort.

Personally, I am a seventh generation Marylander. I am not so quick to cut those ties. I remain proud of the feats attributed to Maryland and Marylander's through the years. I am NOT proposing any name but "West Maryland" is one I could certainly live with. One that would honor all those great things Maryland has been, but one that would also highlight that we are still an independent and honorable people, not dependent on the (economic) crumbs dropped or thrown from Washington D.C. as the center of the state is.

In the spirit of Chris Gist, Tom Creasap and others, I hope their legacies can survive to restore the sort of free State where they sought to make it, some 265 years ago.

Brooklyn · Feb 16, 2014

oupa said:
Names, goals, principals, laws and all else would be the realm of the residents of such a state - as it should be. Keep in mind the United States began in 1775 but didn't really become a nation until 1789 I believe it was, with the final ratification of the Constitution. While we've become in impatient society who expect instant results, this is not a process we expect to happen overnight! Yes, it is a long shot that we can succeed at all, but if it is to happen it will take a concerted and dedicated effort.

Personally, I am a seventh generation Marylander. I am not so quick to cut those ties. I remain proud of the feats attributed to Maryland and Marylander's through the years. I am NOT proposing any name but "West Maryland" is one I could certainly live with. One that would honor all those great things Maryland has been, but one that would also highlight that we are still an independent and honorable people, not dependent on the (economic) crumbs dropped or thrown from Washington D.C. as the center of the state is.

In the spirit of Chris Gist, Tom Creasap and others, I hope their legacies can survive to restore the sort of free State where they sought to make it, some 265 years ago.

I am new to MD and not at present a resident of west Maryland. Thank you for lighting a candle instead of cursing the dark. The lost of west Maryland will make Md even less tolerable but I would vote in favor... then would be forced to move one way or the other.

Meanwhile the debate alone has merit..

Mike OTDP · Feb 16, 2014

Not secession, Border Reformation. Two states and DC go into the pot, two states and DC come out of the pot. But the borders are adjusted.

We have one state...call it the State of I-95. Encompasses Baltimore, parts of Howard County, PG, MoCo, most of DC, Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax. Basically, everything within 30 miles or so of I-95 north of Lorton. Then we have the state of Not I-95. Everything else. The Federal District is Official Washington.

The selling point is that you are allowing as many people as possible to live under a government that is congenial to them.

EL1227 · Mar 4, 2014

Nationally prominent

CBN.com -
The New USA? Secession Movement Gains Steam

An 'Amicable' Divorce

That desire for something different can also be felt in Arizona, Michigan, and in Western Maryland where thousands have signed secession petitions.

One website reads, "We intend to exercise our right of self-determination and self-governance to better secure our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Scott Strzelczyk, the leader of the Western Maryland movement, is ready to get going.

"If they are not going to listen or take our needs into consideration and govern in a way that's more in accordance with the way we want to be governed we are seeking an amicable divorce," he said.

And the "State of I-95" can pay for their own child support, errr ... welfare.

trailman · Mar 4, 2014

oupa said:
Names, goals, principals, laws and all else would be the realm of the residents of such a state - as it should be. Keep in mind the United States began in 1775 but didn't really become a nation until 1789 I believe it was, with the final ratification of the Constitution. While we've become in impatient society who expect instant results, this is not a process we expect to happen overnight! Yes, it is a long shot that we can succeed at all, but if it is to happen it will take a concerted and dedicated effort.

Personally, I am a seventh generation Marylander. I am not so quick to cut those ties. I remain proud of the feats attributed to Maryland and Marylander's through the years. I am NOT proposing any name but "West Maryland" is one I could certainly live with. One that would honor all those great things Maryland has been, but one that would also highlight that we are still an independent and honorable people, not dependent on the (economic) crumbs dropped or thrown from Washington D.C. as the center of the state is.

In the spirit of Chris Gist, Tom Creasap and others, I hope their legacies can survive to restore the sort of free State where they sought to make it, some 265 years ago.

I for one would like to send a delegation to Annapolis and have the governor and attorney general explain to the delegation the meaning of article 1 to the declaration of rights to the Maryland Constitution.

Article 1. That all Government of right originates from the People, is founded in compact only, and instituted solely for the good of the whole; and they have, at all times, the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their Form of Government in such manner as they may deem expedient.

As my mom would say the law is the law

Bigfoot21075 · Mar 5, 2014

If EVERYONE who lives in the non- Balt/Mont/PG would actually get out and vote, there would not be a single liberal democrat politician left in office in this state. Sad thing is soooo many do not vote - THEY are the ones screwing us over.

http://www.capc.umd.edu/rpts/2010/2012MDPrimary.pdf

chappy444 · Mar 6, 2014

the county i grew up in (far western New York) is potioning the state of PA to allow them to become part of PA. the county in question is surounded on two sides by PA and on the 3rd side by lake erie.
there are many counties in MD that are border counties. i am sure that states like PA, WV, DE, and VA would welcome the tax dollars....

the other option is to do like the fortune 500 companies have done...move away and leave the libs behind to support all of thier social programs by them selves.

rwbow1969 · Mar 6, 2014

oupa said:
Like so many who cannot compete in a real debate, but instead resort to name calling and insults, I will not stoop to the depths occupied by a certain person with who's reasoning we'd have been British subjects until 1942, when we'd have become Germans!

I agree.

Just another one sitting on the sidelines that likes to bitch.

rwbow1969 · Mar 6, 2014

Alutacon said:
oupa said:

MD's environmental protectionists have prevented any prospect our considerable Marceles (gas) Shale deposits can ever be touched. That could change, resulting in the tremendous revenues being seen elsewhere.

right, and we could have some of that good toxic water like they have in WV. spare us please.

Click to expand...

Why don't you spare us.

FMD · Mar 6, 2014

Bigfoot21075 said:
If EVERYONE who lives in the non- Balt/Mont/PG would actually get out and vote, there would not be a single liberal democrat politician left in office in this state. Sad thing is soooo many do not vote - THEY are the ones screwing us over.

http://www.capc.umd.edu/rpts/2010/2012MDPrimary.pdf

Exactly!!! :thumbsup:

oupa · Mar 7, 2014

Okay, if you haven't seen it elsewhere, the data is in on how much of a "poor state" West Maryland would be.

We would rank as the 4th highest (median) income state, Nation-wide. :innocent0

We would have the 2nd lowest poverty rate among 51 states, actually bumping Maryland from the #2 spot! :cool:

Now, who was it that said we can't afford to be a state? :sad20:

jpk1md · Mar 8, 2014

oupa said:
Okay, if you haven't seen it elsewhere, the data is in on how much of a "poor state" West Maryland would be.

We would rank as the 4th highest (median) income state, Nation-wide.

We would have the 2nd lowest poverty rate among 51 states, actually bumping Maryland from the #2 spot!

Now, who was it that said we can't afford to be a state?

Remove the federal teat from Md and I suspect that Md would be one of the poorest.

The vast majority of Md's economy is dependent upon fed gooberment spending money that comes from other states, nations and in some cases is printed out of thin air

oupa · Mar 8, 2014

jpk1md said:
Remove the federal teat from Md and I suspect that Md would be one of the poorest.

The vast majority of Md's economy is dependent upon fed gooberment spending money that comes from other states, nations and in some cases is printed out of thin air

To be totally fair and honest, it has to be noted that much of the high-end incomes noted in my above analogy of the five counties, is due to residents of the three eastern most working farther east. :innocent0

I have noted elsewhere though that without D.C., most of MD.'s income (as well as her problems) would not exist. For that reason alone, I feel this impact of commuting West Marylander's is irrelevant.

Mark75H · Mar 8, 2014

Commuters is what makes HoCo rich. It would work for WM, until MD tried a tax grab on their money.

oupa · Mar 9, 2014

What's interesting is that the median household income is actually higher in Garrett County than Allegheny! Garrett comes in at 1642 out of 3,033 nationwide. Allegheny is 2142, still well ahead of many.

Allegheny has the state & federal prisons and now the jobs at Rocky Gap Casino and Garrett STILL outranks it. So the actual statistics prove that the W.MD. economy does not have to be dependent on bones thrown from Annapolis, as many doubters have speculated.

Of course as pointed out elsewhere, the three eastern counties have the easy commute to the cities in addition to their own potential for economic prosperity once out from under the crushing boot heel of Maryland's high taxes and anti-business environment.

We have the means to survive... to thrive! It wont happen overnight but don't count us out just yet. :cool:

Western Maryland’ Secession Movement Growing

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