Do these qualify as G&S?

AliasNeo07 · Apr 12, 2015

Well, we were going to wait in hopes that "self defense" would become valid G&S but...that could be forever. Or never.

My girlfriend applied a few years ago and was denied. She owns and operates a florist business, and also carries cash to the bank. Her deposits are usually around $1k. She got an interview the second time around (First time wasn't even granted an interview) and the trooper told her she didn't carry enough cash. Said that these were sort of reserved for people who carried huge amounts of cash or who were in a dangerous business like armored car company, etc.

I am part owner of a restaurant/bar that does a lot of business and I also take cash deposits to the bank. They are usually above 1k but not a LOT more than that (most people pay with cards these days.)

I realize a lot has changed over the last few years. In everyone's opinion, based on your personal experience or just knowledge of the process, is it worth her resubmitting and me submitting for the first time?

We will have to take that stupid class (I only have First Steps Handgun from NRA which I only took to get an out of state permit) and she has no certificates.

I did some searching around the forum and couldn't put together a good answer. I realize that G&S is (wrongly) subjective, but wanted to see everyone's opinions on these two cases.

Thanks everyone--greatly appreciated.

TonyB. · Apr 12, 2015

My experience was similar to Mark's. The trooper who did my interview was not concerned with the amount of cash as he was about the frequency of deposits. I focused on proving that I had regular monetary flow and that was enough.

AvidRider · Apr 12, 2015

I'm confused. What's the difference if I carry $200 cash in my wallet, or if I deposit $200 of business transaction money? A criminal will not rob me for the $200 in my wallet because it was not involved in a business transaction?

Schipperke · Apr 12, 2015

AvidRider said:
I'm confused. What's the difference if I carry $200 cash in my wallet, or if I deposit $200 of business transaction money? A criminal will not rob me for the $200 in my wallet because it was not involved in a business transaction?

Asked and answered http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=3759341&postcount=35

I totally agree with your premise btw

MrNiceGuy · Apr 12, 2015

The basic answer is that what is Good and Substantial depends on which individual or group is reviewing your application, what most recent guidance is that they've received, what mood they're in that day, their personal views, and how much pressure is being directed at them from on high to prefer one disposition over another.

It's one of the most arbitrary applications of law I've seen before (not that I'm any sort of expert in the field). I don't know how it's managed to stand up all this time except thanks to some ideologically driven hand-waving away of the fact that it's unconstitutionally vague on its face (forgetting any 2A issues).

Straightshooter · Apr 12, 2015

Firstly, don't go on opinions, go on results of the past few years.
If her name is on the documents that show ownership of the business and she provides documentation of a monetary flow either through deposit slips or a letter from the bank and she is not a prohibited person, she meets the criteria that many here have used with success.
Forget about the off the wall classes either of you have had in the past, they don't count for the training that is specified in the law.
So, legitimate business & proven cash flow & training - being prohibited equals a permit.

J.T · Apr 12, 2015

Both should be able to obtain permits based on info given after taking the class

Shemp · Apr 12, 2015

Cash makes no difference. If she is the business owner with license in her name she will be granted a permit. Barring no convictions or other hindering claims.

brownspotz · Apr 12, 2015

what really needs to be asked is..how much did the MSP tell you that you need to carry/deposit to give up your rights?

CypherPunk · Apr 12, 2015

Someone should create a Maryland Handgun Permit approval wheel of chance prop and bring it to lobby day each year.

AliasNeo07 · Apr 13, 2015

I guess we'll give it a shot. Both of us have another Co owner on our businesses...but our names are listed in the articles of incorporation of our respective businesses.

Doesn't bode well that she was denied twice (only on the basis of no g&s.) But, it's a new day, and per the letter of the law we both SHOULD be approved.

Guess we'll go look for a class. We'll keep everyone updated on the process.

Thanks all.

kenpo333 · Apr 13, 2015

AliasNeo07 said:
Well, we were going to wait in hopes that "self defense" would become valid G&S but...that could be forever. Or never.

My girlfriend applied a few years ago and was denied. She owns and operates a florist business, and also carries cash to the bank. Her deposits are usually around $1k. She got an interview the second time around (First time wasn't even granted an interview) and the trooper told her she didn't carry enough cash. Said that these were sort of reserved for people who carried huge amounts of cash or who were in a dangerous business like armored car company, etc.

I am part owner of a restaurant/bar that does a lot of business and I also take cash deposits to the bank. They are usually above 1k but not a LOT more than that (most people pay with cards these days.)

I realize a lot has changed over the last few years. In everyone's opinion, based on your personal experience or just knowledge of the process, is it worth her resubmitting and me submitting for the first time?

We will have to take that stupid class (I only have First Steps Handgun from NRA which I only took to get an out of state permit) and she has no certificates.

I did some searching around the forum and couldn't put together a good answer. I realize that G&S is (wrongly) subjective, but wanted to see everyone's opinions on these two cases.

Thanks everyone--greatly appreciated.

From what I've seen. Cash is king. Having multiple deposits over a period of time during the year with cash on them makes for an easy approval provided you are able to pass the other criteria.

press1280 · Apr 13, 2015

AliasNeo07 said:
I guess we'll give it a shot. Both of us have another Co owner on our businesses...but our names are listed in the articles of incorporation of our respective businesses.

Doesn't bode well that she was denied twice (only on the basis of no g&s.) But, it's a new day, and per the letter of the law we both SHOULD be approved.

Guess we'll go look for a class. We'll keep everyone updated on the process.

Thanks all.

Curious if they'll look at your new application de novo, or they'll say that nothing really changed since the last time, so you'll be denied again. If you do get approved this time, it just shows yet again how there really are no set standards other than, "We know it when we see it."

CypherPunk · Apr 13, 2015

Criminals typically have no idea of the amount or type of deposit.

I continue to recommend three months of business bank statements with the account number redacted.

Three months has been sufficient to demonstrate a pattern and a conclusive indication of business monitary activity.

I have yet to see any questions regarding type, frequency, or size of deposits.

Straightshooter · Apr 13, 2015

kenpo333 said:
From what I've seen. Cash is king. Having multiple deposits over a period of time during the year with cash on them makes for an easy approval provided you are able to pass the other criteria.

NO,,NO,,NO,,NO!
CASH Has nothing to do with it. Deposit slips do not distinguish between cash and checks. The slip you fill out to make a deposit does make the distinction but they aren't the slips that are needed. Were talk I g about the deposit slip issued by the bank which only shows the amount.

LCPIWB · Apr 13, 2015

CypherPunk said:
Someone should create a Maryland Handgun Permit approval wheel of chance prop and bring it to lobby day each year.

I roulette wheel with 2,999 "no"s, and 1 "yes".
LOL, i crack myself up. (poststay 365er here).

TonyB. · Apr 13, 2015

marylandmark said:
My deposit slips show I made a deposit, they do not differentiate what type of currency was used. I'm sure the bank keeps track of that but the slip they give me back just shows a deposit was made for $X amount. Copy a few of them and done (I heard a rumor they should cover at least a 6 month period, not sure how true that is, but sounds like it is a good rule of thumb. I did 12 months because that is what I happened to have handy).

This. The deposits I submitted with my app were the same. The trooper simply asked roughly what percentage of the deposits were cash, I said roughly 50%.

giggity · Apr 13, 2015

Schipperke said:
Asked and answered http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=3759341&postcount=35

I totally agree with your premise btw

If it has more to do with tax purposes so the government can get their share/cut then what about those people that deposit pre-taxed money away in a retirement account?

Straightshooter · Apr 13, 2015

They'll get to tax those retirement dollars eventually. Stolen business receipts are gone forever.

giggity · Apr 13, 2015

Business receipts? I thought we were talking about pre-taxed dollars being deposited as a reason to allow conceal carry.

Do these qualify as G&S?

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